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Just announced on WLR that as the players havent been paid in 4 weeks, all members of the squad have now been declared as free agents. There is talk of the Dublin and Cork based players not turning up for the Wexford Youths game in Ferrycarig next Friday.
sad to here, but its happeneing everywhere now. Hope the FAI are helping out those in serious trouble and help them not only to survive this season but to be still around for many more seasons the come.
Not great news alright. Are there locally based fringe players with a bit of hunger to step in?
Very sad to hear i really think the league is falling apart, at the moment we are living week to week ourselves. I really don't think the summer football season has worked it actually been a disaster in terms of bringing people to watch games as i have never seen so many clubs in trouble at once. Only 1089 at Pats last week a shocking crowd and while the clubs who have big investors can cover the short fall the rest of us have to sit and suffer. Only good it has done is help teams in Europe some what improve. I can see clubs going out of business if this keeps up.
Terrible shame.
It's a normal process of correction after a few years of expansion. Like a gold rush, some speculators have wound up empty-handed. In the short term all it means is that we'll have a more firmly entrenched two- or three-tier league with the top clubs who can sustain a (slightly reduced) level of expenditure streaking ahead. Two or three years from now we'll begin to see clubs from outside the golden circle making tentative efforts to get back inside again. It's definitely making the 10-team league seem like a better idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovers Maniac
With regard to Waterford, I hear Cork and Shamrock Rovers are very keen on Kenny Browne.
dont think its happening everywhere in fact i think only a small handful of clubs are overspending imoQuote:
Originally Posted by Terry
Sheridan these neuvo rich clubs are unsustainable and when they come back down to earth in a few years to join the rest of us, the league could well be missing some clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
No offence but take a look at Dublin City their avg gate receipts probably went to cover the same % of the weekly running costs of the club as Pats, Drogs and Bohs are doing so at the moment. The difference is these teams are being hailed for it but at the end of the day it is unsustainable and this is what is being held up as a model of how all clubs should be.
Gareth Cronin just on WLR to state that the Dublin and Cork based players will not be travelling to Waterford this week for training and that he is uncertain if they will turn up in Wexford next Friday.
He also said that the FAI assertion that attendance were up overall in the league as 'absolute fiction'.
Things looking really bad. :(
While obviously I wouldn't like to see Waterford go out of business, they shouldn't be spending money they don't have. It's as simple as that really.
Holidaysong are Dundalk not in debt big time? I heard they could not even pay there players at times earlier in the season?
By the way not having a go just a serious question.
Last year the total budget of WUFC in the Premier was just under €350,000. We cut that further when we were relegated. We budgeted on the expectation that our crowds in the First would be around the 800-1000 mark and also a member of the Management Committee, a local business man fell ill.Quote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
So how can you say we are overspending. We simply were not expecting this.
he obviously has inside info that you dont!
DC had zero assets and no prospect of making a significant net profit from gate receipts even for bumper attendances. And even so, they'd still be around if they hadn't been promoted in 2005. Shels had a good window of a year to eighteen months wherein they could have averted their current situation even after the sh1t hit the fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovers Maniac
Held up by whom? There are no models. Every club, every league is different. Professional football generally (worldwide) is unsustainable. Mediocrity is indefinitely sustainable, but even then (as anyone who's ever played poker or followed Kilkenny City will tell you) if you never play a hand eventually your blinds alone will decimate your stack.Quote:
The difference is these teams are being hailed for it but at the end of the day it is unsustainable and this is what is being held up as a model of how all clubs should be.
Of the current big four only Drogheda and Bohs are in danger of possibly doing themselves long-term damage.
Every Monday night they are hailed as the future, Dolan in his weekly column the same with Rico hapring on about how great the league is because of these teams eing professional. They never mention that Bohs made a massive loss last year !Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
How many have come out and said this is unsustainable? Pats Drogs or Bohs there is no difference between any of the 3, what they are at is they are all paying out more money than they are taking in which was the same as what Dublin City did, if they continue to do that they will end moving away from their homes as they will have to sell their assets.
if people are seeking answers to the sustainability of football in the eircom league the last people to ask is managers they no fcuk all about running clubs and will bankrupt any club foolish enough to believe them, most if not all managers do not care about the long term sustainability of a club but only in the current season
I really hope that Waterford can keep the ship afloat, somehow. Surely the FAI will give them some assistance, with Delaney being a Waterford man and all?
very bad news for soccer in the area Kilkenny last year and now Waterford on the brink.
The FAI will have to try do something to keep a geographical spread of clubs in the EL
[FONT=Tahoma]Waterford United manager Gareth Cronin has vented his frustration at players not being paid, speaking on Newstalk the blues boss said: "I can't guarantee the wages every week – the club can't guarantee that. It's not that they're withholding money it's just that there is no money coming in – either at the gate or from sponsorship. Response from business in Waterford has been poor despite the fact that we're challenging for the league. I can't guarantee that the wage bill will be covered every week. If any player comes to me and says that he wants to go elsewhere, where he can be guaranteed an income I can't stop them – they are effectively free agents."
Board of management member with Waterford United, Sam White, told The Saturday Sports Show: "We've been active all day and last night getting some money for the players so hopefully we will have it resolved by Monday or Tuesday." He added that they'll sit down with the players for a chat during the week to devise a plan going forward.
Another spokesperson from the club described rumours that they would intentionally avoid promotion as "ludicrous". [/FONT]
A few years back there were some problems, DFC at present are in the best financial position for years. The issue this year was:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovers Maniac
http://www.dundalkfc.com/News/080322_GM.asp
That would very much depend on how you define overspending. Personally I think almost every club in the league is overspending. We're paying players mental money- and the vast, vast majority of them would be in the league anyway if the wages were at half their current level. Currently the league has taken a big leap towards professionalism (and even part time clubs are hit by increased wage levels) in the hope that it will attract enough punters to make it sustainable. There is little evidence so far that this will happen. There is going to be quite a few clubs paying for this gamble, and soon we'll see the next 'silver bullet' solution for domestic football rolled out to save us.Quote:
Originally Posted by passerrby
I feel that this is agood arguement against Summer Soccer was in Galway last night and the size of the crowd was very disappointing.Summer soccer might suit the so called "Big Clubs" who's finace's don't rely on gate receipts.They have big investors "at the moment".In the present climate as regards the slow down in the economy will the proposed devolpment of Dalymount go ahead.Are all these business men going to be willing to pump money into Drogheda Pats etc.At the moment these are the clubs all for the summer soccer season while the rest of us suffer. It is simple to see for the smaller clubs that attendance's are down.People are away on holidays, day tripps and even on more rural level some might laugh farmers etc are working late into the evenings. Theres the battle with the Gaa (not that Sligo has anything to worry about but Galway does have this battle). The big cheifs would want to realise that 2 or 3 clubs don't make a league,they need the rest of us to help make this league to survive.Also these silly fines for flares, pitch encroachments by 1/2 fans need to be looked at! Ya if there is mass encroachments thats understandable. Also disaplinary matters need to be looked at as regards fines.In last nights match the referree handed out cards as if they were going out of fashion some were not warranted on both sides.Now the clubs will be fined over poor reffereeing decisions.
In my opinion the FAI want all the clubs as close to Dublin to get bigger and stronger and the rest can go to hell ! Summer soccer is only good for the men in suits so that thier nice Italian suits don't get ruined. Summer soccer has killed the athmosphere at games and the crowds have dissapaired. In Longford i honestly don't know how we are surviving !! Lucky to get 300 at games now. Sorry to hear about Waterford but get ready to hear more like it before the end of the season.
It's always dark and dreary in Longford no matter what time of year it is. Plus what atmosphere has been killed at your games?? Anyway, sad to hear about Waterford. I hope they survive obviously but I'm glad they'll be out of the title fight.
To be honest the only time we ever got half decent crowds and had a decent atmosphere regularly was our first season in the Premier Division. That was a winter season but to be honest I don't think the numbers would have kept up anyway even if we had stayed on with winter football, it was more the novelty factor that was coming into play that year in my opinion. Now, all things considered we'd probably see a slight increase in crowds if it was winter football due to there being less competition but I think it's unrealistic to blame it all for all our ills. Back on topic, a pity to hear of any club in trouble but I'm sure it isn't a club endangering situation. If you have to let players go the most it'll cost you is the chance of promotion but by the sounds of things you wouldnt have the money to compete at Premier Division level anyhow. Based on what I've seen this year, if you look hard enough you can find a good few amateurs that aren't an awful lot worse than some of the professionals in the division.
Much like what Limerick did what Waterford are going to have to do is look for local talent. First Division clubs can't afford to pay expenses of players coming from different parts of the country. Whats worrying is that a club like Galway rolled the dice in the Premier and it's worked out so poorly for them. Can't see any of the current crop of First Division clubs being able to improve on their efforts.
This brings back why I think LoI clubs need to be promoted as the pinnacle of Irish football, the place where the cream of the local junior players go. Promoting that to junior clubs who are largely resentful of the LoI is the next task the FAI need to undertake to keep this ship from sinking
True about the Junior clubs. Even in Longford a lot of them seem to see themselves as rivals of LTFC somehow. One particular function I happened to be at, something to do with the Town came up and some people were booing. Now, fair enough it was only a few and there were a few others there that do go to games, or used to, but I just don't understand the thinking process.
There could be a book written on the bad blood between Limerick FC and the Limerick Juniors to be honest. Cobh seem to be in the process of being torn apart by their juniors as well, it's pathetic that this fracture ever occured, and that it still exists to be honestQuote:
Originally Posted by Longfordian
simple solution. give the fines back to the clubs through a sort of fair play league tableQuote:
Originally Posted by Shiba
We get that whinge every year from Sligo fans over "summer football". Winter football clashes with EPL on tv, there's bad weather/games postponed, and crowds remain the same. Benefits of summer football are better weather, better pitches, better performances in Europe, more tv exposure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovers Maniac
Crowds are poor, but they're permanently poor. Even the GAA are playing in increasingly empty grounds. Prices are too high, two clubs charge €25 admission, most clubs (Waterford included) play home games on weeknights depriving home fans who work shifts, and away fans who have to take halfdays from work, from seeing games, and kos are at the tail end of rush hour. LOI football is the only business I know where the business caters for the employees, not the customers demands.
No wage problem's at Dundalk, look up the previous thread its all in there....Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovers Maniac
Dundalk F.C are in their best financial postion in years. This down to largely increased sponsorship and fundraisers by the DFC Trust with the Patron Scheme. Gerry Matthews our CEO was making up the shortfall of the previous season's and for the first time in a long time were not expected to have a shortfall for him to make up.
Sorry about the whinge "Mr Dublin the Almighty" but we can only comment on what we see is affecting our club.But it does seem funny that its seem like its only the big city clubs that are for the summer soccer season.Ya summer soccer may have its good points but not for all clubs.you pointed bout some things that maybe affecting crowds,timing of games cost of entry "Galway charged €20 the other night.improved pitchs! Maybe!but it is hard to do work on pitchs in the winter months as there is no growth and can be very wet to do work on them ours included only now ours is starting to improve.Is the improvement in europe just a coincidence with summer soccer than as result of it there has bee a huge improvement by investors in some clubs in the last while than ever before.(Drogheda,Bohs ,Pats, Cork ,Derry). Again I point out for us in a more rural settings and low population base Summer Holidays,Weddings,Gaa and as you pointed out work related issue.we have big following coming from the country area's in leitrim sligo mayo whom have there busiest season during the summer and really have an affected on our attendance.To me its really not a whinge but simple facts that are affecting "Our Club".Again sorry if you think its a whinge but its fact! Its not about just single clubs its about the survival of the league which will be hard done in its present Guise. The league will a sad place without the likes of "Rovers,Harps,Waterford,Galway,Shams,Shelbourn e"> Don't forget ye are on the brink as well!Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
on the button..I have been making this point to the mons for a long timeQuote:
Originally Posted by mypost
The league in Northern Ireland plays winter football. Not exactly packing them in, are they?? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiba
Just because summer football affects one club, doesn't mean the whole structure should be overhauled to suit them. Instead, Sligo should market their club in the local, and wider community. Go into shopping centres, train/bus stations in Sligo, Ballina, Collooney etc, and create awareness of what you have. You have weekend football in place, you have a decent ground, lower your prices. Who's going to pay €15 in to watch UCD and Bray?? Come up with ways and means of making your club more attractive for people to watch you. Come up with gimmicks and incentives for people to come back. It's not like you have to compete with 4 other clubs in the area, as in Dublin. The potential is there, all you have to do is exploit it. But it's much easier to blame the system, than tackle the problem. :o
Its not just one club Harps galway waterford are all been hit.They have tried all the gimmicks. 4 clubs in Dublin with a population it has is not a good comparison.Dublin has a huge advantage.Out of curiosity what do Shams Charge? All the angles have been covered as regards promotion advertising etc.We have a good promotions officer in place to tackle this as you say. So I could be wrong as summer football in your eyes but dont see any other reason behind it.(except maybe the armchair critics).Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
am watching loi games for over 30years and every few years clubs go bananas with crazed ideas of european domination that end up with players, suppliers,managers and fans at their wits end.
its not summer soccer, the 65% rule, the fai. one time skimcgee was manager of gufc and after sending in one of his new signings to sign with a committee member, the player was happy coming out with his new deal and ski sends him back in to get more. here was the manager screwing the supporters for every last drop. it will never change its footie in ireland. its not the civil service
What have they tried?? Because whatever they have tried hasn't worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiba
What advantage?? Here, we have to compete with 4 other clubs for support. Sligo and Waterford have nobody else to compete with.Quote:
4 clubs in Dublin with a population it has is not a good comparison.Dublin has a huge advantage.
Those who complain about poor crowds, have to look at ways of restructuring their resources. Do you want higher crowds, or higher prices?? You can't have both. In the current economic climate, €15 is harder to come by, and against unfashionable teams, hard to justify. Even more so, for those who charge more, and more so again for those in the FD.Quote:
Out of curiosity what do Shams Charge? All the angles have been covered as regards promotion advertising etc.We have a good promotions officer in place to tackle this as you say.
In any business, if punters aren't coming to you, you've got to go to them. How many Waterford FC fans/representatives, mill around Merchants Quay bus station, and the train station on Fridays, selling themselves to thousands of commuters?? Waterford is a beautiful tourist town, why not take advantage of it, go into the town centre, and hand out leaflets of the club's next game, up the road?? Are there adverts in the local press?? Are there posters of their next match around the town?? Would changing games to Saturdays make a difference?? Would reducing ticket prices get more people, and therefore more cash through the turnstiles??
At Bayern Munich in Germany, €15 gets you in to one of the finest arenas in world football, €12 if it's a midweek game. Prices are not set for every seat in the ground, the highest is €60. Yes, the league is well funded, yes Bayern have a lot of money already, yes, Bayern receive tv money, but that's missing the point. If they can charge as little as it costs to watch Sligo play Cobh, or Waterford to play Monaghan, obviously they must be doing something that other clubs aren't. And Bayern have to compete with two other clubs in Munich.
Too many clubs wish to continue with the same failed strategy, and pray that people will come to watch them. It doesn't work, and as a result nothing changes.
Our crowds have fallen because we are crap and we tried to charge too much at the start of the season, not because games are played in the Summer. We were one of the better supported clubs last season because we had a more affordable ticket price and were doing a bit better than we are now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiba
Going back to a winter league wouldn't help attendances IMO it would make attending games less attractive.
Carrick United but there still involved in the FAI Cup, possibly registering problems would occur there likewise if local club players stepped in i would think.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldyouth
TBH thats misleading. Dublin has a population of over a a million people for those few clubs, Sligo and Waterford have barely 10% of that between them.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost