International Eircom league players

Printable View

08/07/2008, 2:31 PM
Sam_Heggy

International Eircom league players

Isn't it mad how Paddy McCourt was deemed not good enough to play for Northern Ireland only a few months ago, yet now, he has signed for Celtic, not kicked a ball for them (has he even started pre-season with them yet? ) and is now considered good enough to be called up to the squad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ls/7495409.stm

Will Dave Mooney get a call up if he signs for Sunderland / Blackburn / Accrington stanley? What about Keith Fahey, Jamie Harris, Barry Murphy, Shane Robinson, Joe O'Cearuill, Joe Gamble, Colin Healy, etc ? Would these guys gets international call ups if they move to britian?

Personally I think its a joke, they are the same players when they move as they are playing here.
08/07/2008, 2:37 PM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

Personally I think its a joke, they are the same players when they move as they are playing here.

The McCourt thing is a joke as he hasn't even played for Celtic yet. For all they know he could flop as badly as Georgie did (I know I know, illness, family planning and random explainations brought him home, not the fact he couldn't break into the Ipswich team), but if a player like Mooney moved across and proved himself at a higher level in even his first few matches (say for example if he got off to a good start in the Championship or SPL)I would pick him for a squad too, even if it's just to get him used to being away on international duty
08/07/2008, 2:58 PM
sonofstan

If he does get a game will he be the first Celtic player since Neil Lennon to play for the North?
08/07/2008, 3:04 PM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

Isn't it mad how Paddy McCourt was deemed not good enough to play for Northern Ireland only a few months ago, yet now, he has signed for Celtic, not kicked a ball for them (has he even started pre-season with them yet? ) and is now considered good enough to be called up to the squad.

Situations like this - it has happened with the ROI team also - seem to me to show a lack of confidence by the management teams in their own ability to gauge a player's ability. It seems like they think that "if a club like XXX will buy him, he must be better than we thought. Call him up to the squad."
08/07/2008, 3:26 PM
superfrank

Exact same thing happened to Kevin Doyle. He might have played a few pre-season friendlies for Reading and he was in the national squad. It's a disgrace.
08/07/2008, 4:00 PM
TheFingallian

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofstan

If he does get a game will he be the first Celtic player since Neil Lennon to play for the North?

I'd say so otherwise we would of heard about it knowing what it can be like for Celtic players these days.

How long will he last playing for them. Read somewhere about a group of Northern Ireland "fans" ready to give him hell if he plays.
08/07/2008, 4:03 PM
pineapple stu

In fairness, I think everyone's taking that article out of proportion.
Worthington was asked about him, didn't want to be rude and say "no chance", and so gave a sitting on the fence answer. Add in a headline that he's suddenly "likely" to get a call up, and people will start to get all worked up.

Non-story until such time as he does get a call up.
08/07/2008, 4:05 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFingallian

How long will he last playing for them. Read somewhere about a group of Northern Ireland "fans" ready to give him hell if he plays.

I'm sure Kyle Lafferty may get similar treatment by other NI "fans".
08/07/2008, 4:49 PM
Finlay Harp

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFingallian

I'd say so otherwise we would of heard about it knowing what it can be like for Celtic players these days.

How long will he last playing for them. Read somewhere about a group of Northern Ireland "fans" ready to give him hell if he plays.

I would doubt Paddy will get what Lennon got. Place has changed bigtime. The sectarianism has more or less gone but you still get the odd idiot that is stuck in the past. I cant see him getting many games in an international shirt though. Quite a decent N,I midfield these days.
08/07/2008, 7:57 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFingallian

I'd say so otherwise we would of heard about it knowing what it can be like for Celtic players these days.

How long will he last playing for them. Read somewhere about a group of Northern Ireland "fans" ready to give him hell if he plays.

"Read somewhere" ? Mind if I ask where ?

Reading somethign like that is not the sort of things that most Irish football fans would forget reading about - particularly as he's only just joined Celtic.

So I'd be keen to know where you'd read it so I can take a duke meself.

Thanks.
08/07/2008, 9:08 PM
Stevo Da Gull

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

"Read somewhere" ? Mind if I ask where ?

A couple of tabloids reported this a couple of days after he signed, it was apparently taken from a forum
08/07/2008, 10:27 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo Da Gull

A couple of tabloids reported this a couple of days after he signed, it was apparently taken from a forum

A few goons mouthing off on a forum isn't something to be taken that seriously.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was the OWC site.
08/07/2008, 10:39 PM
Rovers Maniac

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

A few goons mouthing off on a forum isn't something to be taken that seriously.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was the OWC site.

Not sure if you have noticed but you have a bit of previous on the not being to hospitable towards each other up there ! :D
08/07/2008, 11:02 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rovers Maniac

Not sure if you have noticed but you have a bit of previous on the not being to hospitable towards each other up there ! :D

A Rover's fan critiquing other football fans hospitality ?!

Priceless... :D
09/07/2008, 12:06 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofstan

If he does get a game will he be the first Celtic player since Neil Lennon to play for the North?

No, the Captain of our U-21 team is Fermanaghman Michael McGovern, who last week signed for Dundee United from the Celts. Michael has always been quite happy to represent NI (his sister Aine plays for NI Ladies) and has never received any stick, despite being in the exposed position of goalkeeper.
09/07/2008, 12:08 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

In fairness, I think everyone's taking that article out of proportion.
Worthington was asked about him, didn't want to be rude and say "no chance", and so gave a sitting on the fence answer. Add in a headline that he's suddenly "likely" to get a call up, and people will start to get all worked up.

Non-story until such time as he does get a call up.

Indeed. Here is the article (from BBC NI, I think):

McCourt likely to get NI Recall

Nigel Worthington has hinted that new Celtic signing Pat McCourt will be in Northern Ireland's squad for the 20 August friendly against Scotland.

The skilful midfielder moved from Eircom League club Derry City to the SPL champions in June.

"Hopefully Pat will have a good pre-season. We will take it from there and see what happens when the squad is announced," said the NI manager.

"Celtic are a big club and we are keeping a close eye on him."

McCourt has won just one cap for Northern Ireland, coming on as a substitute in a friendly against Spain in 2002 while he was with Rochdale.

Worthington is confident the move to Scotland will boost the 24-year-old winger's international prospects.

"I am always delighted when players get to move across the water," added Worthington.

"It means they are training every day and training with the best players. He will become a better player because of that."

Northern Ireland play Scotland at Hampden in a warm-up for the World Cup qualifying campaign which starts on 6 September away to Slovakia.
09/07/2008, 12:19 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

A few goons mouthing off on a forum isn't something to be taken that seriously.

Wouldn't be surprised if it was the OWC site.

It's possible this "story" emanated from the imagination of some "journalist" who was reading OWC (it's what passes for investigative research for half of them), but I doubt it.

Over nearly 20 pages of comment on McCourt, I don't think there was one hostile comment about the lad. Rather, it varied between: "Huh? what's he actually done yet?", through "Good Luck to the lad, hope he makes it" to "Give him his chance".

One Rangers fan from Portadown, who tends to take a "robust" line when it comes to politics etc, posted this:
"Good luck to McCourt at Celtic I really hope he gets his chance and shines - my alleginace to NI comes well before any love for Rangers / hatred for Celtic"

For myself, I accept there may still be a few reptiles who will crawl out from under their stone to boo McCourt on his first home appearance, but I'm confident they'll make no real impact other, perhaps, than in the imagination of the tabloids.

Edit: If the tabloids really are looking for stories, perhaps they could use this little gem, not from OWC, but apparently from some organ called derrycitychat:
'Paddy should never weear that rag of a NI Jersey and give any legitimacy to that shower!! He was never ever going to be good enough when he was wearing the candystripes as he was a wee fenian from "Londonderry". But now that he is with Celtic their bias and sectarianism is much more under the spotlight and exposed and they simply can't ignore Paddy anymore. No matter how much window dressing the IFA want to engage in, the fact of the matter is that half of the population in the 6 counties do not feel any allegiance to the NI team for very legitimate and understandable reasons that go back a long time. Remember Neil Lennon anyone????'
09/07/2008, 12:45 PM
pateen

If Mooney was playing for Blackburn reserves. He would have been called into Traps squad.
The McCourt thing was a disgrace but then again maybe its the club he was playing with.

Dont imagine many Derry city fans on the IFA board
09/07/2008, 1:10 PM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by pateen

If Mooney was playing for Blackburn reserves. He would have been called into Traps squad.

That's just the wider mindset though - look how long it takes for there to be a "He was a crap before going to England - Official Thread" on the Ireland forum here when someone leaves the League of Ireland
09/07/2008, 1:42 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by pateen

The McCourt thing was a disgrace but then again maybe its the club he was playing with.

Dont imagine many Derry city fans on the IFA board

I'm sure if you tried hard enough, you could imagine it. After all, you seem to imagine that the IFA board [sic] picks the team.

Personally, I'd always imagined it was the Manager - you know, people like Lawrie Sanchez. Then again, what would Sanchez ever have known about Eircom League clubs - he only managed Sligo Rovers...:rolleyes:

P.S. Perhaps the IFA Board had a word with the U-21 Manager, too? You know, to make sure he didn't pick players like Mark McCrystal and Darren Kelly. After all, we can't have Derry City players about the place, can we?
09/07/2008, 2:16 PM
Straightstory

Worthington also seemingly under the impression that McCourt has been playing part-time football until now.
09/07/2008, 5:40 PM
sadloserkid

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

he could flop as badly as Georgie did (I know I know, illness, family planning and random explainations brought him home,

Interestingly much the same reasons that have sent him driving (as a passenger I stress) back across the sea...
10/07/2008, 11:16 AM
Ceirtlis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

That's just the wider mindset though - look how long it takes for there to be a "He was a crap before going to England - Official Thread" on the Ireland forum here when someone leaves the League of Ireland

Can you point me in the direction of some of these threads, I havent seen any.
10/07/2008, 11:24 AM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceirtlis

Can you point me in the direction of some of these threads, I havent seen any.

You don't have to look too hard - within the first 5 or 6 pages of the Ireland Forum - try Roy O'Donovan or Daryll Murphy. First mentions in the Ireland Forum are them moving to the UK, like they suddenly became great.
10/07/2008, 8:22 PM
irishultra

For the record I think Mooney will get called up for the Norway match. Hopefully he gets a chance but you have to remember at 18 Anthony Stoks scored 14 goals in 14 games for Falkirk. He was playing for a team not as good as Cork, and for a small fish....he didn't make the step, so its not certain Mooney can.
10/07/2008, 8:24 PM
irishultra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

You don't have to look too hard - within the first 5 or 6 pages of the Ireland Forum - try Roy O'Donovan or Daryll Murphy. First mentions in the Ireland Forum are them moving to the UK, like they suddenly became great.

The same way if a player from the Championship moves to the EPL.....nobody was callling for GOC to be called up for joining Ipswich.
11/07/2008, 1:30 PM
SunderlandBohs

Does anyone remember Alan Bennett's call up to the squad? He wasn't at Reading 5mins and got called-up!
11/07/2008, 1:59 PM
spongebob

Regarding McCourt I personally do not give a damn if he ever plays for the North.

What ragged people in Derry was that he wasn't even looked at when playing some outstanding football. (Belfast is very, very far away)
11/07/2008, 4:35 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by spongebob

Regarding McCourt I personally do not give a damn if he ever plays for the North.

"...but the good news is that Pat himself clearly does!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by spongebob

What ragged people in Derry was that he wasn't even looked at when playing some outstanding football.

Worthington took over out of the Eircom season, so you would need to look to Sanchez for an explanation. As a former Sligo Rover manager himself, I doubt whether Sanchez was in some way hostile to the Eircom in itself.
More likely the explanation for not picking him was that when it came to wide midfielders/wingers, Sanchez had the choice of Keith Gillespie (Sheff.U EPL), Damien Johnson (B'ham EPL), Steve Jones (Burnley English Championship), Chris Brunt (WBA Champs), Ivan Sproule (Hibs SPL & Bristol City Champs). At a push, Steven Davis (Villa EPL) can play wide, as he's done with Rangers in the UEFA Cup/SPL, or even Kyle Lafferty, as he did for Burnley.
Tbh, all of these players deserved to be ahead of Paddy before now, since all were playing regularly at a significantly higher standard.
As for the future, Nigel hasn't actually said he will now pick him, solely on account of having joined Celtic.
Rather, he has indicated that IF he settles in quickly at Celtic - a much higher standard than the EL - he will come into contention. As such, a game in August might normally be too soon, except that it is a friendly, and by a nice coincidence, in Scotland.