Ireland V All Blacks-Saturday 7th June

Ireland team: Rob Kearney, Shane Horgan, Brian O'Driscoll (capt), Luke Fitzgerald, Tommy Bowe, Ronan O'Gara, Eoin Reddan, Marcus Horan, Jerry Flannery, John Hayes, Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, David Wallace, Jamie Heaslip, Denis Leamy.

Replacements: Rory Best, Tony Buckley, Mick O'Driscoll, Shane Jennings, Peter Stringer, Paddy Wallace, Girvan Dempsey.

New Zealand team: Mils Muliaina, Anthony Tuitavake, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Dan Carter, Andy Ellis, Neemia Tialata, Andrew Hore, John Afoa, Brad Thorn, Ali Williams, Rodney So'oialo, Richie McCaw (capt), Jerome Kaino.

Replacements: Keven Mealamu, John Schwalger, Anthony Boric, Adam Thomson, Jimmy Cowan, Stephen Donald, Leon MacDonald.

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This is actually winnable. I would have perhaps went for Dempsey ahead of Horgan, who I have very little time for, and considering Quinlans dead leg, then playing Leamy is fine. Its a pretty inexperienced All Black front 5 and maybe we can turn the screw here, get some penalties and use it to our advantage.

Plus there is a bit of disharmony in the All Blacks camp. They have lost quite a few players lately because of their unions inability to pay top class wages, and Henrys comments about Jerry Collins seem to have upset a few mwmbers of the squad.

Having said all that, this is the All Blacks, at home, in New Zealand. I'll predict a narrow All Black win, by 1-6 points, in a tight game we could have won.

How can the All Blacks lose players over wages?
Does that mean they gave up Rugby Union in favour of Rugby League?

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Originally Posted by geysir

How can the All Blacks lose players over wages?
Does that mean they gave up Rugby Union in favour of Rugby League?

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No. They move to Europe to play for English and French clubs and then the All Blacks don't pick them. I assume it's something to do with the timings of the Northern and Southern hemisphere seasons.

Having watched a fair bit of the Super 14 I expect us to get hammered at the break down, I assume we are playing under the current IRB Rules and not under the new rules (most of which have been tested in Super 14 this season) which should give us a bit of an edge bcause the AB's will have spent 4 months playing with different rules.
Even with all of that I still reckon a 10-15 point margin for the AB's with a wider margin in the 2nd test.

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Originally Posted by endabob1

Having watched a fair bit of the Super 14 I expect us to get hammered at the break down, I assume we are playing under the current IRB Rules and not under the new rules (most of which have been tested in Super 14 this season) which should give us a bit of an edge bcause the AB's will have spent 4 months playing with different rules.
Even with all of that I still reckon a 10-15 point margin for the AB's with a wider margin in the 2nd test.

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Yes playing under the current rules, think it will be tighter than 10 - 15. Kearney at full back is a good call and probably one that Eddie would have not gone for.

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Originally Posted by endabob1

Even with all of that I still reckon a 10-15 point margin for the AB's with a wider margin in the 2nd test.

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There is only one test. Then its on to play the Aussies in a test, then home.
I believe that because its the All Blacks first test since the World Cup, they're going to be decidly rusty. That, and the advantage of them playing under the ELV's for the past few months.

Really excited about this weekends game. New start and hopefully a bit of optimism around the camp after Munster's latest HC win. I thought we played really well against the Barbarians last week - Fitzgerald showed flashes of brilliance and Horgan looked a different player.

I think we have a decent chance of causing an upset.

I must say i love the games on at this time of the year and hope we play well - i'd also be hopeful of a good result but then realise we've beaten only Georgia, Namibia, Scotland and Italy in the last 12 months - so it would be some turnaround to beat the All Blacks in thier backyard for the first time in our history!

and their history!!

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

They have lost quite a few players lately because of their unions inability to pay top class wages

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Oh the irony....

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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba

Oh the irony....

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Spot on Dr, just thinking that last week when I was watching the Super 14 finals. Same for Oz I see that 6/7 players from the Queenslands Red are leaving to further their careers i.e. pensions.

Sean Fitzpatrick reckons that club rugby in NZ will be dead within the next 5 years as all their top players will be abroad. Interesting to see if that has a knock on effect to their international teams and more so to the Tri Nations.

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Originally Posted by beautifulrock

Interesting to see if that has a knock on effect to their international teams and more so to the Tri Nations.

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The All Blacks and South Africa are both said to be reconsidering the policy. Not that we're one's to talk, as recent history would suggest that Irish players playing abroad are virtually frozen out too. They certainly have to do that bit more to be considered.

Just looking at the bookies odds. Ireland are 13/2 to win with Paddys and a New Zealand win is 1/14. As for the handicap odds, Ireland is 10/11 with a 16 point handicap.

I think I'll have a bet on those handicap odds.

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

There is only one test. Then its on to play the Aussies in a test, then home.
I believe that because its the All Blacks first test since the World Cup, they're going to be decidly rusty. That, and the advantage of them playing under the ELV's for the past few months.

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For some reason I thought we had 2 tests against NZ & 1 against the Wallabies, seems a long way to go to play 2 tests at the end of a long season.

I would expect us to run Australia closer than the All Blacks, the Aussies are pretty weak up front (as are we) so it'll be more of an open game. NZ will not let us have enough of the ball to do harm.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Just looking at the bookies odds. Ireland are 13/2 to win with Paddys and a New Zealand win is 1/14. As for the handicap odds, Ireland is 10/11 with a 16 point handicap.

I think I'll have a bet on those handicap odds.

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that handicap one is a tempter alright...

I think the midfield combination is weak & back three prone to errors. Best chance is too keep in the pack & let the Munster forwards win it.

Luke Fitzgerald is out. Paddy Wallace comes in.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Luke Fitzgerald is out. Paddy Wallace comes in.

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My optimism went out the window when I heard the news this morning :( gutted for the lad, hopefully he is fit for the Oz game the week after.

Big shame about Fitzgerald alright, thought he looked very impressive against the Barbarians. Might rethink that handicap bet now as we've lost a major cutting edge...

Surely we have someone better than Paddy Wallace to step into the breach? :confused:

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Luke Fitzgerald is out. Paddy Wallace comes in.

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Will he be able to run? Must have piles because of sitting on the bench so long...

Wallace must be a better centre as he is not much of an out half.

Disappointed in Fitzgerald but thank God Eddie is gone, if he was still in charge Horgan would've been moved into the centre and whatever about Wallace's limitations, he's a better centre than Horgan.

To whoever asked if we have no better options at centre, in D'Arcy and Trimble's absence the answer is probably no.

Wallace really needs to stand up defensively.

8-8 half time.

Sivivatu & Wallace tries. Pouring rain & very poor crowd. Line out poor. O'Driscoll & Horgan dozy.

Well done Horan... Can`t scrummage & zero discipline.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Well done Horan... Can`t scrummage & zero discipline.

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Correct and you always rely on Marcus to take the wrong option in the open as well.

Ireland v New Zealand games have had a depressingly regular pattern over the last 5 years.

& what's happened our lineout? AB`s threw quick, flat (& not necessarily straight) ball to the front, whilst both Flannery & Best threw high, looping arcs to the middle & tail. Madness in the conditions.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Ireland v New Zealand games have had a depressingly regular pattern over the last 5 years.

& what's happened our lineout?

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yep decent 60 minutes and then we fall away.

Horan :mad: Jackman did the same thing against Wales back in the 6N. Lost the head and there was no coming back from there. A real sucker punch. I thought Barnes was correct in saying NZ out-munstered Munster. They made yards every single time they went for the pick up and drive. Whereas Wallace was our only real yard gainer today, the others just kept hitting brick walls.

McCaw is an animal, I thought he was outstanding again today as was So'oialo.

a our line out wa a disater area it mean there was no platform for our attacker so basically BOD, Horgan et al defending or getting ball standing still. If you dont win first up ball in rugby forget it, especially against the All Blacks above all teams.

I used to love watching Ireland years ago, around from gatlands time and before, limited but gave it their all and in the end there was only a penalty or a try in it. Now its the same aul scheisser everytime, ya "we are confident we reckon we can win this one" and its teh same as always, usual crap. O'connell is not half as good as people make out he is, he can do it in munster cos the level is lower than international but he cant make the step up. The only fella who has consistently made yards going forward and is a good ball carrier is david wallace, the rest are useless and ye'd think given that 7 of the lads played together at club they would at least be organised. Same aul crap and its getting seriously annoying and boring.

Despite Ireland leading for a lot of the game always thought All Blacks would win. Agree with the point made above about Ireland getting boring (Seems to be the same thing happening every game-leading early then going on to lose). Horan was stupid giving away the penalty but think we would have lost anyway.

Its got nothing to do with being "boring".

Its about lacking physical intensity & dynamism at the breakdown & in general contact (that the AB`s have by the bucketload). O`Connell was actually one of the few Irish players who could hold his ground today (along with Wallace & Buckley when he came on). Jamie Heaslip came crashing down to earth, a real sobering experience. He didn't put a foot right all day, although its tough playing behind a retreating scrum.

Also obvious O`Driscoll`s mind was elsewhere, understandably.