Kiely will be almost 40 by the time of the World Cup. I'd be surprised if he came back, to be honest.
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Kiely will be almost 40 by the time of the World Cup. I'd be surprised if he came back, to be honest.
I predict that by the time we hear the final closing verdict on Finnan, Ciaran will have started 57 new threads
Kiely retired because he was tired o playing second fiddle to Shay Given. I he returns he will still be second fiddle to him.
Finnan has agreed to meet Brady but personally i just think that is out of curtosy. He has a battle to get his position back at liverpool so i think he will stick to his decision. Maybe if he will be given assurances that he will play in his correct position then he may return.
Id expect Andy O'Brien to return. He is still in his 20s and has finally got his club career back in order. I guess he retired due to his shocking treatment by Stan
I see no point in bringing back any of these players. Bring in some new blood. Finnan never played great for Ireland since 2002 in my opinion. O'Brien is a ****ebag. Kiely is a quality keeper but I don't see what he has to gain from coming back.
I'd rather see Sean Dillon and Colin Doyle get more of a chance. I can't think of a young centre half, a position I think we're going to struggle with in a few years.
If Kiely came back we'd be wise to let him play some games, if we lose given we are f'd. Kiely is streets ahead of Paddy Kenny, even at his age. He is also a consummate professional who looks after himself and can carry on his career for a few more years.
Yeah I'd rather have Kiely than Kenny as well. I think Kiely would be fine with playing as our backup if he's allowed to play in some friendly matches, which is fair enough.
Hope Brady can convince O'Brien and Finnan to return as well.
O'Brien is no great shakes alright, but we have no depth whatsoever in the Central Defensive area. I agree that we do need to start looking at the players coming through, but you really don't want to be throwing St. Ledger or someone like that in against Italy because Dunne is injured and John O'Shea is suspended. You need someone with the experience of playing at the top level and internationally.
Why all the undue abuse on Andy O'Brien. His parnership with Cunningham was probably the best we have had for the past 8 years.During the one campaign where they were our deensive partnership yu could count the amont of goals we conceded on one hand, and this was in a group with France
It is amazing to think that Kiely is 37 with a grand total of only 8 caps - when did he get his first call up? I always think of him as a supremely reliable back-up keeper. I did find it amazing that Given was never dropped to give him a few friendlies over the years - this may say more about confidence in the defence in front than any lack of confidence in Kiely though.
I think that the anti-Andy buzz is largely owing to the fact that, while not particularly bad, he is very not very good. He gets a bad press too for having played for England to under 21s. Personally, I always found him to be less than inspiring at the centre of defence, and would generally feel that his game was reliant on his partner beside him having a good one. However, it is quite remarkable that we only conceded five goals in that campaign (him playing in 6 of them) and still finished 4th.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
Kiely's Ireland record: http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/p...starts=1&id=68Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebeard
Only the one competitive start - away to Turkey in Euro 2000 play off second leg
To those who feel we should bring the younger players through, i disagree. Trappatoni is not been paid all this money to bring young players into the side; he is there to get us qualified. O'Brien and Finnan in particular are good enough to be in our starting 11 when playing at their best, Kiely is certainly good enough for the squad and may be back playing in the premiership next season. Let the young players stay around the squad and you never know, if they are performing well at club level then they will put pressure on the more established names; if the established players aren't there then there will be less motivation for the young players to be constantly on the lookout for that extra 2%. The more experienced players the better as far as my humble opinion is concerned.
I think it's important that we have a reliable back-up keeper as Given has had a lot of trouble with injury recently and I think that Kiely is the best alternative we have. Hopefully lads like Doyle and Supple will become more viable options as time goes on.
Tough call for Finnan. Returning to the international fold may give the wrong message to Benítez and make it even more difficult to win his place back. At the same time, if he's frozen out at Liverpool, he may find playing for Ireland more attractive.
Centre-half is a difficult position for us; we've one top notch player in Dunne and then several lads who either due to youth/inexperience (McShane, St Ledger, McCarthy, O'Dea, etc.) or general averageness (O'Shea, O'Brien) don't inspire quite enough confidence. I think what the new management should do is concentrate on choosing a centre-half pairing and help them develop an understanding. Despite his failings, I think O'Shea is the most viable partner for Dunne at this moment in time although I reckon Andy O'Brien could do the job too.
You've got to be joking. Fair enough its probably not worth having Kiely back but Finnan and O'Brien are absolutely vital if we have any chance of qualification i think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theskinloyal
The best alternatives for both Finnan and O'Brien at this moment in time are probably Kelly and O'Shea - bringing Kilbane to full back. I wouldn't give us much chance of qualification if Kelly and O'shea are regulars - two very poor readers of the game. Finnan is an excellent defender and O'Brien seems to be in the best form of his career - these two are streets ahead of the alternatives.
If we have these two throughout the qualifiers, I'd be so much more confident. Which would you prefer - a backline of Kelly O'Shea Dunne Kilbane or Finnan O'Brien Dunne Kilbane??
If sluggish and error prone Andy O'Brien turns out to be vital to our qualification I'll eat my own legs. He's average in his best form and poor when not. If we want to qualify we need McShane, O'Dea or Ledger to come through and establish themselves as reliable defenders at least within the initial stages of the campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
No Way!!! He's had some great games for Ireland, every time I think of him I remember the countless times he has performed, not the Cyprus debacle. Get him back in and playing for us!Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
I think Given stated that he wanted to be part of all Irelands games both qualifiers and friendly.Quote:
Originally Posted by danonion
Also I think RMK had a dig at him before about wanting to accumulate a lot of caps.
Its good that Given wants to be a part of every game for Ireland and its ridiculous to have a dig at him for that but its not his decision and doubt he is going to quit internationals if the manager chooses to test out our back up keepers in a few friendlies
O'Shea - rarely playing for Man Utd, extremly rare that he plays at centre hal
McShane - cant get back into the Sunderland team, their form imporved when he was dropped, awful at beginning of season. Error prone.
O'Dea- Cant even break into the worst defence Celtic have had for years
St. Ledger- Preston are just out of relegation trouble. Not the answer at the moment.
Simply put O'Brien is the best of what we have. he is almost a certainty for player of the year at Bolton this season. yes they are going to be relegated but he has had a good term. Plus if we have him and Dunne in our team we will be a major threat from set pieces, and set pieces are vital in football. Anyone dismissing O'Brien for Ireland hasnt a clue and has seen little of him in the past. Yes he is limited but he is the best of what we have to partner Dunne.
dont think kiely will come back
finann should though hes well worth a try anyway
andy o brien isnt up to it i dont think same as mcshane
o dea should get a chance in these next 2 friendlies
Is O'Dea even getting in the match day squad for Celtic??Quote:
Originally Posted by CvilleRovers
I liked the look of him against Milan last season but if he's not getting near the starting 11 for Celtic how can you expect him to play for Ireland?
Wasn't in the squad at the weekend, but he's only been out of the matchday XVI six times this seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
His last game was the first game against Aberdeen in the Cup, on the 9th March
I like O'Brien quite a bit. His partnership with Cunningham was excellent IMO. I'd be interested to see how himself and Dunne could get on together for a prolonged period of time. However, I don't see the problem in trying a few other pairings. I wouldn't be too keen on O'Dea unless he starts playing regular football and though I haven't seen St Ledger I've heard good things about him. It's unfair to judge him on the fact that his team are doing badly; it's not a great indication as to how good he is. You could use that point to argue that Given is a useless goalkeeper due to him conceding so many goals in the last 10 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
I can't remember how many games they've played, but one good thing to come out of the Staunton regime IMO was that a defence of Finnan-McShane-Dunne-O'Shea conceded no goals (it was only about 3 games though) and never really looked like conceding and Dunne-McShane looked a potentially good future partnership in the games they played. McShane is still young and in his first season in the top flight so I wouldn't write him off just yet.
i agree totally, its a sad start to the new era of irish football if we are talking about andy o brien being the rock to build upon.Bring some of the younger lads through and give them games they can only get better by being beside the likes of richard dunne,personally i like o dea and would like to see him getting some more time on the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
We could then have the same problem as we did in Cyprus with a central defender having a lack of match practice and we all know what happened there.Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikaze
I cant understand this, you are dismissing a player playing well in the Premiership for Darren O'Dea!! Average players like Caldwell, McManus and Pressely are keeping him out of the centre of defence. He cant even get a run now at full back, and the fact Lee Naylor can get a run at full back says it all. I have said it already, but Celtics defence is near woeful this season, and yet O'Dea still cant manage to get in the team......and then you think he would be a better option that a man playing Premiership football every week. I you had said McCarthy, Bruce of St. Ledger then fair enough, but there is no argument whatsoever for O'DeaQuote:
i agree totally, its a sad start to the new era of irish football if we are talking about andy o brien being the rock to build upon.Bring some of the younger lads through and give them games they can only get better by being beside the likes of richard dunne,personally i like o dea and would like to see him getting some more time on the field
if o brien is playing so well why are bolton in such a bad position?st ledger is playing ok in mid table of the championship,O dea to me seems to have potential all im saying is give him a go in friendlies let him learn,and he might impress, he cant be much worse than the restQuote:
Originally Posted by carloz
You must be winding us up because thats actually a good postQuote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
Biggest pile of crap I've read on here in a while. I'd like to point out when O'Brien was playing for Newcastle (and his first year at Portsmouth - when he got football!) he was in great form for Ireland - with Cunningham beside him. I think Dunne is at the stage where he's good enough and confident enough to boss our defense - and this is the type of partnership O'Brien can flourish in. He made mistakes against Holland and Cyprus but he has had some good performances throughout the years. And youngirish, who do you want in there instead, McShane, O'Shea? Get a grip.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
McShane had an very good start to the season start to the season...Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
A young centre half with two poor fullbacks (Halford and the much improved collins) and varried partners in Nosworthy & Higginbotham. Sure there was a dip in form, but keane hadn't got the players to take him out of the firing line (drop him) for his own good.. PLUS he played out of position at right full before he was dropped.... Sunderlands form improved when Bardsley and Evans were signed. It's not as simple as to say McShane was droped so Sunderland got better.
And yes Barsley is a better right full, Evans is a better centre half... doesn't make mcshane a bad centre half. He's 21, and a good player with potentiontial.
He'll get his chance again.
Oh dear God, you are a closet WUM aren't you? Aren't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikaze
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikaze
Steve, is that you?Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikaze
But he can be much worse than the rest, and he is. O'Brien is spot on what we need at the moment: very experienced, playing well, and knows what the Ireland set up is all about. With the changes that have gone on in the background, the likes of O'Brien are needed to guide the younger players, certainly over the short term.Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikaze
As for your remark about 'if o brien is playing so well why are bolton in such a bad position?' thats the kind of thing people said at school when they were about 14...
Bring back The Ginger Pele :p
Pure uninformed garbage. You were probaly one of the heads on here shouting for him to be dropped after those two games but change your tune when the past becomes more of a distant rose tinted memory. He was never in great form for Ireland. Great compared to who? Gary Breen? He has been average at best for us and dreadful at worst. We couldn't hold onto a lead to save our life under Kerr with A O'Brien the mainstay of our defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diarmo
Read my post again we won't qualify if relying on the likes of Andy O'Brien. We need someone else to step up. I would rather try out St Ledger or O'Dea in a few friendlies if they are getting regular football early next season to see if they are up to scratch than go with O'Brien who'll be playing in the same league as St Ledger next year anyway.
I never said that we would be relying on O'Brien if we want to qualify, i made the point that himself and Finnan would be important additions to a currently weak backline. O'Brien is by no means a great defender but he is much better than our other alternatives. I think he would be solid with Dunne alongside him.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
If O'Dea starts playing well regularly for Celtic or McShane gets back into the Sunderland team by all means start them ahead of O'Brien but for now he is by far the best option we have to partner Dunne. Can you honestly disagree with that?
totally agree.. is that you Trap?? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
Stop presenting your opinion as fact. Look at the stats from that campaign. 5 goals conceded with the O'Brien - Cunningham partnership. Dunne is put beside Cunningham for the home France match - we lose 1-0. O'Brien was there in Paris (and put in a decent performance that match) and we drew 0-0. So stop pretending that your opinion is fact. Grow up.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
And don't tell me again what I'm going to say or think. I never called for O'Brien's head, I've expressed reservations - as I probably have about most Irish players in the last campaign. Is that all you can reply with? Come on, do better.
Look at it:
O'Dea - 21 - can't break into the Celtic team. Look what happened the last time an out of practise centre half was played?
St. Ledger - 23 - I have a lot of hope for this guy - could be a big player in the future. However, I don't think he's ready to become a permanent part of our defense, he hasn't any Prem or international experience.
McShane - Compared to O'Brien on current form - there's no comparison. McShane's playing reserve football, O'Brien's doing well at Bolton. Would you pick McShane ahead of O'Brien now? I think that would just be a repeat of the Cyprus debacle... with the roles reversed.
Patrick McCarthy - 24 - Like St. Ledger, decent prospect. Not as good or as experienced as O'Brien though.
Gary Doherty - Although he does ok at Championship lever, I don't think hes quite up to being an international CB.
John O'Shea - gets very limited game time as a CB. On top of that, his performances leave a lot to be desired. I trust him less as a defender than O'Brien.
Prove to me that any of these (or any other Irish defender) is a better option than O'Brien. Then, I might consider your ridiculous opinions.
Very good points Diarmo and its good to see someone completly agrees with me
Dont worry Diarmo that is typical youngirish, if he cant debate with what you actually say, he starts inventing what you might have said or miight say. Andy O Brien had a good partnership with Cunningham. To be honest other than Dunne we have lots of central defenders who are all pretty average and we need to find a partner for Dunne quickly. I like what I see with O Dea any time I see him play but he could be too similar to Dunne possibly. O Brien is worth having in the squad though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diarmo
I like O'Dea as a centre-half, on the rare time he actually gets his game there.
At this stage he should be looking for a move, even a loan move, to a Championship side.
He needs to start getting matches under his belt in his natural position week in and week out.
He's got the talent, he just needs the games and the experience now.
People who are saying he can't break through at Celtic don't have it exactly right- in my view he's good enough, he's just not better than what they've got. He's right around their level, and when that's the case with defenders, it seems Strachan goes with the older, more experienced player.
Not every manager is willing to give a young centre-half a chance, and I think Strachan is guilty of this.
If he's not a first choice centre-half, or at least a rotation player by next season, O'Dea should be looking for a move.