Attachment 995http://i26.tinypic.com/nn8cw6.jpg
Number 3 has just cleared the ball but is now off the pitch, is he still playing number 9 onside?
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Attachment 995http://i26.tinypic.com/nn8cw6.jpg
Number 3 has just cleared the ball but is now off the pitch, is he still playing number 9 onside?
He is offside and the Number 3 gets a yellow card for leaving the pitch without permission.
Yep, He is offside.
The rule as far as I know is that if the attacking player is between or beyond the last 2 defenders when the ball is played forward, the player is offside.
No. 3 is not involved in the play as he is not on the pitch.
Otherwise a guy being treated behind a goal for an injury would be playing forwards on. If a player is off the field, he doesn't count in the offside equation.
What about the third West Brom goal yesterday? Surely he was offside from the original ball forward.
On a tangent, but related to the "not involved with play when off the field" rule.
If a striker stands just behind the touchline, just six inches outside the field of play (for example, in the same position as blue team's no.3 in the above picture), and the ball is played to him, at which point he runs onto the field of play, and receives the ball........what's the rule?
If he was just inside the field of play, he'd be 30/40 yards offside................is he still offside?
You can't return to the field without the ref's permission, and it has to be at the halfway line. So he's either 'officially' off the pitch, and can't just run back on, or is still considered to be on the field of play, and therefore offside.
Is that the actual rule? He would be considered on the field of play? Players run off the field of play all the time, and just run straight back on.Quote:
Originally Posted by noby
Imagine this situation........a corner is played into the box, and headed clear by a defender. An attacking player, in an attempt to get a head to the corner, has raced into the area, and his run takes him 5 yards beyond the touchline, up to the advertising hoardings. He turns around to re-enter the field of play. As he turns, the ball is lobbed back into the box, over the heads of everybody, as the defense is rushing out in an attempt to catch the attackers offside. When the ball is played, the player in question was off the field of play, but just about to run back on. The ball fortuitously goes in his direction, and he's in lots of space due to every player rushing out due to the offside trap. He gets it and puts in the net.
I'm sure it shouldn't be a goal, but what rule stops it from being a goal? The rule noby mentioned?
I'm sure our resident referee will clear it up, but I would say that it would be disallowed for offside.
In the situation I described, I think that number 3 intends to come back on the pitch, therefore should be included in the field of play, therefore playing number 9 onside. If he claims the offside, I think he is cheating, yellow card, can't come back on pitch without the referees consent. So, to summize, its either onside or the full back gets a yellow card(free in?)
The ball was played to Phillips in phase 1, phase 2 begun when the Bristol player headed it to Miller, he is onside.Quote:
Originally Posted by noby
Not sure about that. One of the conditions for being officially offside when you are in an offside position is if you are "gaining an advantage" by being in that position. So, if you're in the offside position at phase one, have you not gained an advantage (in phase 2) in virtue of being in the offside position originally?
That was my thinking. A view that the panel of MOTD2 seemed to share.
The gist of this is that you cannot leave the field of play without the refs permission.
So, if a forward or defender goes beyond the byline during active play, for whatever reason, they are viewed as being bang on the byline and therefore in play.
In the OPs scenario the striker is definitely onside:)
Not sure about the actual wording of the rule, but as far as I know, if a player's momentum genuinely takes him off the pitch, then (a) he's not offside and (b) he can return immediately. There was a goal years back like this when Dion Dublin was off the pitch, came back on, snuck up behind Shay Given who had rolled the ball out to kick it, robbed the ball and scored. If he'd deliberately waited for Given to do that, then he would have been booked and a free out given.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
It should be fairly easy to work out when a player is deliberately trying to gain an advantage by leaving the field of play.
A humorous aside - I remember a game in my Superleague reffing days when one team broke through with two players who were clearly offside, except that one opopsing player was wandering off to the goalline to be sick. Of course, he was still on the field of play, so I had to let play go on! In any event, the two managed to miss.
I remember Crespo's goal for Chelsea v Arsenal, I think he left the pitch and came back on and scored almost immediately.
number 9 is offside
:confused: Explain please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Réiteoir
Just because you're username means referee in Irish does not give you the final word on this;)
p.s. I'm pretty sure you're wrong.
You noted that you can't leave the field of play without the ref's permission. This is wrong; you just can't come back on without permission. So Réiteóir's right.
The obvious corollary from this is that a player can play someone offside by stepping off the pitch, but as this involves a player staying well behind the rest of the defence and thereby causing the problem in the first place, it's not something which is ever likely to be taken up as a tactic. I'd imagine it'd be a bookable offence to deliberately try catch someone offside like that too.
Here's the answer I got from Asktheref.com
My understanding of this is that the player is onside.Quote:
Answer provided by Referee Chuck Fleischer
Treat any defender as on the field where he left it and allow play to continue. If the player is off through the normal course of play allow play to continue. If the player is off to upset the offside equation allow play to continue and at the next stoppage book him for unsporting behaviour.
Answer provided by Referee Steve Montanino
The defender still keeps the line where his body is relative to the goalline. The act of leaving the field does not act to "remove" that individual from consideration in the offside equation.
Regards,
it's classed as unsporting behaviour - and would be a caution.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I've just asked this question to an English FA National Referees Instructor - his answer should seal the deal once and for all (nothing against the two American lads who have offered their advice in the earlier posting - but their grades are equal to refereeing on the DDSL)
Lads I said this from the start. No debate needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by stojkovic
OFFSIDE AND A YELLOW CARD FOR NUMBER 3.
How can you listen to a Septic Ref called Chuck.
The original post never said whether the player left the pitch voluntarily or merely, say, fell over the line while clearing the ball off balance.
To clarify, I am strictly speaking of a scenario where momentum took the defender off the pitch and his intention is to rejoin the field of play as soon as he is able.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I'm assuming you've done more research than was needed, but I'd like to know where you got the Septic bit from?Quote:
Originally Posted by stojkovic
Rhyming slangQuote:
Originally Posted by joe_denilson
Septic = Septic Tank = Yank
I have had an answer back from the English FA Referees Instructor I referenced earlier.
His answer to the question is short, and to the point:
Quote:
The Red 9 is most definitely offside.
Reitoir, i don't think you're quoting the full answer...
Here it is:
"The Red 9 is most definitely offside.
If we started allowing defenders to step beyond the goal line to make attacking players offside, it would open the floodgates for players to do this all of the time!
Regards, Julian"
I think he meant to say Red 9 is onside, judging by his next sentence. Would you not agree, given this passage from LOTG 07/08: Additional instructions & guidelines to referees, Law 11 Offside (page 102):
"[FONT=Frutiger-Light][SIZE=2]If a defending player steps behind his own goal line in order to place
[LEFT]an opponent in an offside position, the referee shall allow play to
continue and caution the defender for deliberately leaving the fi eld
of play without the referee’s permission when the ball is next out of[/LEFT]
play."[/SIZE][/FONT]
Also from Law 3, the number of players:
"[FONT=Frutiger-Light][SIZE=2]If a player accidentally crosses one of the boundary lines of the fi eld
[LEFT]of play, he is not deemed to have committed an infringement. Going[/LEFT]
off the fi eld of play may be considered to be part of a playing movement."
In other words, if momentum takes a player off the FOP, we are to treat him (or her) as though they are still on the field (no cautions etc.)?
Interesting discussion on it anyway!
[/SIZE][/FONT]
yeah - i didn't want to post the second bit due to it being a bit confusing.
Anyway - it's all been cleared up now - interesting discussion all the same
http://i25.tinypic.com/2rc1pno.jpg
Alright boys, Bendtner was flagged offside on this one? Any thoughts? I think play should of been allowed continue.
If you want to be very technical he is onside because Carragher's hand is on the pitch.
He has to be onside, as Dman states, Carragher is on the field of play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoss
CorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge
I'm trying to remember, but didn't Carragher tackle someone, Adebayor possibly, and he also ended up off the pitch, just out of shot, so technically he was offside.
Not that it matters, as Bentdner still managed to screw it up anyway.
noby your spot on, carragher went off the field of play trying to block a cross therefore he is not deemed involved in the action, to be fair i thought it was an excellant piece of work by the linesman, when you factor into account everything.
what about george hamilton commentating, only for liam brady correcting him george would have been giving out saying bendtner was onside.
Van Nistelrooy was onside tonight? I think that proves me correct?
Definately onside
Van Nistelrooy - definitely onside tonight:
A player leaving the field of play because of momentum during play, is not deemed to have left without the Referee's permission and can therefore re-enter without the Referee's permission. In this instance, although the defender is off the field of play, (and until he returns to the field of play), he should be deemed to be standing on the goal-line (in the field of play) when considering offside. The Assistant Referee should stand in line with the last opponent on the field of play (which in this case will probably be the defending goalkeeper). When deciding offside in this scenario, the two last defending opponents are the defender who has travelled off the field of play, and the defending player who is nearest to the goal line on the field of play (which in all probability will be the goalkeeper).
If an uninjured defender purposefully remains off the field in an attempt to place an attacker in an offside position, then that defender should also be deemed to be standing on the goal-line (on the field of play) when considering offside. Trickery of this nature circumvents the spirit of the offside Law
Van Nistelrooy 100% onside. otherwise any defender could just step off the pitch whenever he wanted to.
Agreed, and I don't think there was much wrong with Panucci either. Good goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by crc
For the record, I don't think Bendtner should have been flagged offside in the pic above either.
Panucci didnt 'step off the pitch', he was INVOLUNTARILY bundled off the pitch by his own keeper. The ball did not fall to van Nistelrooy straight away, it went out and came back in, which gave van Nistelrooy plenty of time to get back on-side. It was OFFSIDE.Quote:
Originally Posted by crc
The off-side rule now is so vague and confusing that it allows referees interpret it however they like and to twist it around to suit any situation to prove they made a correct decision.
Ive asked numerous referees to explain THEIR interpretation of the off-side rule and every single one of them gives a different answer.