....and we're not getting there either
This is what you're annual 5% fare increase goes towards. Cancelled services during the week and at weekends on the Heuston route.
Joke. :mad:
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....and we're not getting there either
This is what you're annual 5% fare increase goes towards. Cancelled services during the week and at weekends on the Heuston route.
Joke. :mad:
I very much doubt the 5% fare increase went towards funding an illegal strike.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
I presume rail drivers are part of the National Wage Agreement? Does this agreement not mean they cannot strike like this?
While it has no impact on me as I do not use the train it is hard for me to think of a group I have less respect for. IMO train drivers are notorious for unofficial strikes. Just doing a google search gives long list of disputes.
Apparently it is deemed ok to strike because of disagreement over drivers' rosters and work efficiencies when there numerous mechanism to discuss those issues. How can they justify striking while also using the LRC?
RTE News
it is a joke. Because this train is cancelled I'll be leaving the house at 5.15 next week to get me to work for 8.00. Irish rail are a joke.
1) the 9.00pm train to cork has no catering facilities.
2) the last train out of heuston at any stage of the week is 11.00.
3) The first train arrives at heuston at 07.05.
4) the super-duper new limerick trains are two trains joined together. As a result if you are unlucky you will have no catering facilities whatsoever.
I could go on. I'm sick of them and have to use them every day of the bloody week.
I don't think NBRU are in Congress (it's hard to keep up with whether there are or not), so are not actually party to the national wage agreements. I think that train drivers just have more impact, as one can stop a train.
Don't know the in's and out's of the case, but the Unions are denying there is any action taking place - it seems to be drivers not willing to do overtime to cover other drivers. I certainly wouldn't be trusting Barry Kenny's version as the reality.
I have to assume that is part of their contract. Train drivers have to cover sick leave of other train drivers as no one else can do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
I remember recently train stoppages were also caused because no drivers available to cover the sick leave of other drivers. This seems to mean that all the drivers on sick leave. :rolleyes:
I can't help feel that they abuse a system where no one else can do their job as this is not a once off.
Why do these disputes only bother Heuston route drivers?? The drivers on the Connolly route are happy to drive from Belfast/Sligo-Connolly, Drogheda-Rosslare, without moaning.
Because of works at one station every week, every train to/from Heuston is cancelled on Saturday nights/Sunday mornings. We don't even have night trains like in Europe, so why can't "essential" engineering works be carried out then?? :confused:
Maybe different union representation? I forget the name but which union was lead by Ingle - was he the one leading the wildcat strikes around I suppose the late 90s?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
If the Trade Union movement condemned unofficial & clearly pointless strikes such as these would improve its credibility. The strike as likely to affect othetr union members as non union members.
His name was Brendan Ogle and he formed a breakaway union called ILDA. I think Irish Rail refused to recognise them and they went out on strike for 10 weeks but went back to work without a result. I think ILDA still exists but is now affiliated to ATGWU.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
If the drivers were breaching their contract, with what the management are claiming is unofficial action, surely they'd just use their disciplinary procedures?Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Thats the guy alright. I seem to remember heard his name associated with some other union recently. Maybe the Dublin Bus drivers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
I believe they have complained to the LRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Worse, he's in the ESB now.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
He's a full time Union rep in one of the ESB unions. Have heard on the radio and their arguements with Management - unfortunately I don't think he'll ever shake off the name he gained from the ILDA dispute.
Spoke too soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Unbelievable :mad:
In the same way the Gardai cannot strike I wonder if anyway to keep him away from vital state assets like the ESB. Apparently salaries very high at the ESB which should preclude against strikes. I remember in recent years workers getting paid to do nothing for a couple of years due to renovations but that was probably Management decision. I don't think anyone wants to see ESB strikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
I may be wrong,but is he not now employed by the AGTWU as a full-time union officer and has been 'allocated' to ESB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
One thing I have often wondered about was in time of strikes the workers on the picket lines suffer loss of pay but the full time trade union officials(who are usually those who appear on TV or are interviewed on radio) are still being paid. It is easy to spout off about principles but when it is not costing you money it is easy to spout off.
Aye, that's what I meant, probably wasn't clear though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
But a union official can't unilaterally call a strike - it has to go to a ballot of the members. In most unions, they won't even ballot until they know there's a strong majority in favour. Even if a ballot is in favour of action, but isn't clear cut then most unions won't sanction the action. Sure the full time official spouting off about principles might not even agree with the action - but it's their job to represent the members.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
I don't agree with the government's electricity policies but I think the ESB workers would be better off electing someone who can speak knowledgeably on the issues rather than someone from outside who's argument and tactics are based on confrontation and disruption rather than persuasion.
Here, here. I also have to put up with this inept, rude overpriced service on a daily basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
A few months ago, I witnessed one or their "security guards" blatantly intimidating a youngster (quiet lad standing there reading a book) on a packed train. I spent 3 weeks trying to get somewhere with their customer service and found them to be nothing short of rude and unhelpful. They never once replied to any of my contacts like they said they would.
Trains are delayed on a regular basis and constantly overcrowded. If conjestion charges were introduced and this resulted in a decrease in the level of traffic in the city centre, I would happily pay the charge e/w to avoid using trains.
Its turning into an everyday thing now.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
http://www.railusers.ie/ is a great website. Their customer service is widely regarded as a joke. They must reply to you if you write to them, that's widely accepted.
When I say I use their service seven days a week, I'm not lying. And very rarely do you get a mistake free journey. Today there were numerous problems. I get my weekly ticket on a Monday. I arrived at 1.57 for the 2.05 train, ample time to buy a ticket from the staff member. Except he wasn't there. Plus you cannot buy the type of ticket I use from one of their vending machines. So I'd to buy a single to Heuston (which is €1.50 cheaper than a return :mad:), and then buy my weekly there.
When I came out of the main concourse to wait on the bus to work, there were numerous beggars, drunks, junkies, call them what you will, harassing the waiting passengers of the Luas and Bus. Twice when asking for money this couple touched a very elderly woman and a nervous well-off lady with a less than 6month old child. Yet the Stasi employed by Irish Rail just laughed and watched on. The shower of fcukers. Then an Irish Rail bigwig drove up to the main entrance, illegally of course, and one of the said scum got to within 20 ft and the Stasi member had him on the deck.
The drivers issues are still ongoing apparantly. Due to travel on the 11.10 service from Heuston to Ceannt for the Galway-Hoops game on Saturday, when it was cancelled at 12 hours notice. :mad: Having booked a seat on it, it was a mad panic trying to transfer the reservation for the later train, 3.5 hours later.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
This is what the 5% increase contributes towards. :mad:
Drivers really take the pi**. Irish Rail web site now For such a small network far too many cancellations. I am glad I never get the train.
Quote:
23 00 Heuston Kildare cancelled, Tuesday by Corporate Communications
Iarnród Éireann advise customers that due to driver issues, this evening's 23.00hrs Heuston to Kildare service is cancelled (Tuesday 1st April).
21.55 Pearse-Maynooth, 23.13 Maynooth-Connolly cancelled, Tuesday by Corporate Communications
Iarnród Éireann advises customers that due to driver issues the 21.55 Pearse-Maynooth and 23.13 Maynooth-Connolly services are cancelled this evening Tuesday 1st April 2008.
06 30 Portlaoise to Heuston & 17 35 Heuston to Carlow cancelled by Corporate Communications
Iarnród Éireann advises customers that the weekday 06.30hrs service from Portlaoise to Heuston, and weekday 17 35 Heuston to Carlow service are both cancelled until further notice due to unofficial action by drivers.
13 30 Westport to Dublin, Sundays by Corporate Communications
Iarnród Éireann advises customers that the 13.30hrs service from Westport to Dublin on Sundays is deferred to 14.25hrs, due to operational problems.
The 13.20hrs Ballina to Manulla Junction will be deferred to 14.15hrs as a result.
I was getting the train from tullamore this week (yes I go away from Dublin (by car)) to get the train to work. They had a bold sign stating that the punctuality of the Dublin to Galway route was at 99.3%. I really laughed aloud heartily. Then I realised they were referring to Dublin -> Galway as opposed to both the outward and return journeys. I have never got a train that has come from Galway/mayo that has been on time.
Bear this in mind. Once you go past Portarlington there is only 1 line to Galway and Mayo. The same from Maynooth towards Sligo and from Kildare towards Waterford.
Thats ridiculous in my opinion.
I can understand why a bus would be late as had to deal with traffic from other road users. There is no reason why trains should not run on schedule as they control the carriages & the track. It is not like they can blame any one else.
I know for fact that the early morning trains wait for particular passengers at the more remote stations. I'm looking at you Galway line. Also the early train to Heuston has been late on account of drivers arriving late for work.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
I seem to remember a few years ago the Rosslare - Dublin being delayed for 10 or 15 minutes at Rathdrum or somewhere but then it had to wait another 30 minutes more at Greystones becuase it had lost its slot on the line that is shared with the Dart from Bray onwards (The Dart only went to Bray then).Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Irish Rail
More unofficial action by the drivers. :rolleyes:Quote:
06 30 Portlaoise to Heuston & 17 35 Heuston to Carlow cancelled by Corporate Communications
Iarnród Éireann advises customers that the weekday 06.30hrs service from Portlaoise to Heuston, and weekday 17 35 Heuston to Carlow service are both cancelled until further notice due to unofficial action by drivers.
Think that is the same driver(s) not doing their voluntary overtime that sparked the thread. It isn't new.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
For the record, I got the train to Tralee a couple of weekends ago and was bussed from Mallow due to unofficial driver action. No mention of this until I got on the train though, and no reply to my e-mail of complaint
Shameful :(
only thought of this thread going home thurs morning and yesterday morning.
Finished work at 6 to get 6.15 (a.m.) train home for a few hours kip before being back in work at 4pm.
Asked to buy a same day return ticket only to be told that wasn't allowed on the Limerick and cork lines. I didn't have enough cash to buy a 5 day return and my wallet was at home. So I bought the single ticket. Got to Portarlington and happened to glance at the prices and funnily enough they do sell same day return tickets!
So next morning got to station for early train home again, my train due to leave platform 4, kildare train (1 hour later) on plat3. No train where mine supposed to be at the dept time, then 10 mins later the poxy kildare train left.
I complained and was told did I not use my head. Then I complained about the ticket issue from the previous morning, and I was told that its not possible to buy a day return ticket from Dublin to any station on the Cork or Limerick line, but they do it from those stations to Dublin in order to entice customers in from the country.
I mentioned that Portarlington is the beginning of the West line , that didn't go down well.
In short they're a shower of mother****ers in IE.
If there were not so many unofficial actions I might think management were to blame. Drivers missing from work should sacked on the spot. These people look for an excuse not to work. If they had a valid reasons to strike it would be an official strike. Do they get paid while on strike?
No one gets paid when their on strike - the thing that sparked this was someone being removed from the payroll.
To me it sounds like the unions are holding out with regard to work practice changes, however it's pretty clear Management are provoking this actual row. Drivers returned to work this morning, but weren't allowed work unless they signed an open ended document? Barry Kenny talked a lot of crap over the weekend about the drivers effecting the travelling public, then Irish Rail put another obstacle in the way of trains actually running :rolleyes:
It was also interesting to hear that the drivers in Inchicore have been refusing to do the same duties for months without issue. The driver on Newstalk also said there was a row between someone in the Cork Management and one of the Shop Stewards and this is the result.
Basically to me it all smacks of Irish Rail trying to smash the unions. Now, you might agree or disagree with that aim, but at least lets be honest about who is causing the current round of stoppages. The Drivers have basically been locked out this time, whatever about the overall rights and wrongs of what is actually going through the mechanisms in the LRC at the moment.
While it does seem pedantic for the Management to be asking the drivers to sign a document saying they will adhere to the agreement of a previous document it does seem strange the drivers won't sign it. I presume the driver was removed from the payroll because he refused to undertake working (train colleague) which he previously signed an agreement he would undertake & got paid to do us. If the driver has a valid case why does he not tell the media why he refused to work?
Using the LRC to negotiate a dispute between 1 driver & Irish Rail is beyond a joke.
The Cork based drivers have no credibility left as there are ongoing distributions. the only reason this happens is because they know they cannot be sacked. All these are unofficial which once again raises the question why his union is not backing him? Could it have something to do with the fact that they know that it is in breach agreements they previously signed so is illegal? Unions can be sued for that I think whereas harder to target 1 individual.
Irish Rail cannot smash unions as they are a public company :rolleyes:
We have to be fair to the drivers on this point. They were handed a legal document when they arrived into work and told to sign it. They were never going to do that without having a lawyer or someone from the union read through it to see if it was OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
They agreed to a document a couple of years ago, wages were increased based on this, which they failed to deliver. The drivers are to blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
Perhaps the LRC will use Kieran Mulvey who has experience of dealing with disputes in Cork, remember the GAA County Board/Players dispute earlier this year ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Irish Rail did it in 2000 with Brendan Ogle and some of his colleagues in the ILDA.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
The declaration about future action was not agreed previously, and only their Union could negotiate any changes to agreements. Totally unnecessary by management in a deliberate attempt to make the situation worse. A situation brought about because management took someone off the payroll without following the agreed disciplinary procedures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
And pete, why is it only the workers side in Cork that have no credibility left? Could very well be a failure of management. In here, you could look at the disputes in the company and you'd find the same managers involved - the trouble has followed them as they've moved around because of how they handle issues...
I accept does seem overly confrontational to add the document. Irish Rail appear to badly run organisation from top to bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
The Minister who has overall responsibility should be taking action as neither side care about the passengers as they know cannot lose their jobs. If it was the private sector the managers would have to explain why revenue is down due to disputes & what actions they had done to prevent or solve.
No reason it has to be Private sector for that to be the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete