Can someone explain ...
Are the following clubs all separate clubs or the same club under different names:
Limerick
Limerick United
Limerick City
Limerick 37 (terrible name, by the way)
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Can someone explain ...
Are the following clubs all separate clubs or the same club under different names:
Limerick
Limerick United
Limerick City
Limerick 37 (terrible name, by the way)
Most people consider them to be the same club. Briefly Limerick FC (sometimes AFC) joined the league in 1937. Name change to limerick United in 1979 (same board). New club in 1983 Limerick City when chairman (Pat Grace) took complete control after winning court case v former directors. Changed colours from blue/white to yellow/green. Went back to Limerick FC in 1989 when Pat Grace went and changed back to blue/white. Limerick FC went bust in 2006 and a new club Limerick 37 joined the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
Here is a longer version of the club's history written a few years back.
Limerick FC a brief History
Limerick FC have a proud history in domestic football and the city has had a club in the League of Ireland or Eircom League since 1937. Dundalk are the only provincial town/city to have a longer unbroken run in senior football with Sligo, Waterford and Cork etc all taking time out.
Limerick FC were elected to the league in 1937 to replace Dolphin and made an immediate impact defeating Shamrock Rovers in their first ever game as a League of Ireland club. Limerick finished the season in 10th place (out of 12) but did manage to annex the Munster Cup. The early years saw little success though and the 39/40 season saw Limerick finish rock bottom and record just one win. In 1941 Waterford resigned from the league and Limerick bought their blue shirts thus changing their club colours from red and white stripes. The mid 40’s saw Limerick challenge for honours with a mainly fulltime setup. Drumcondra prevailed after a 3 game epic F.A.I. Cup semi Final in 1943 and Shelbourne edged Limerick out by a point to take the league in 1944. Limerick were again runners up in the title race a year later albeit trailing 5 points behind a rampant Cork United. Limerick were bridesmaids again in 1947 when despite leading Cork United 3-1 with 20 minutes to go in the Cup semi Final United came back to draw 3-3 and progress 5-4 on aggregate.
The long wait for a national trophy finally ended in 1953. As ever with Limerick it wasn’t easy. Needing to beat Dundalk in Oriel Park to win the Shield and watched by the biggest ever sporting exodus at the time to leave the city Limerick were quickly 2 goals down. A storming comeback saw Beaver Cronin nick the winner and the Shield came to Shannonside amid wild celebrations. A Dublin City Cup win over Drumcondra was to follow in 1958 but the wait for a first league title finally ended in 1960. As ever it was never done the easy way. A home win over Dundalk left just a point required from the final match away to St Pats. However a defeat meant the travelling support hanging on to hear that Cork Celtic had defeated Shelbourne and the title went to Shannonside. This win allowed Limerick to play in Europe for the first time ever but Swiss champions Young Boys of Berne ended Limerick’s campaign with a 5-0 win in Thomond Park and a 4-2 victory in Berne. Successive Cup Final defeats to Shamrock Rovers in 1965 and 1966 did at least have the consolation of another European tie this time against CSKA of Sofia in 1965 but again 2 defeats meant a quick exit. The Dublin City Cup was annexed again in 1970 after a win over old rivals Waterford but the long wait for an F.A.I. Cup success ended in 1971 when Drogheda were defeated 3-0 in the final after a replay. Italian side Torino were too good in the ECWC the following September. A league cup final win over Sligo in 1975 proved to be the only other success of the 1970’s.
The early 1980’s proved to be halcyon days for football in Limerick. Eoin Hand took over as player manager in 1979 and won the league in his first season after an epic battle with Dundalk. Needing a point away to Athlone Limerick got it thanks to a Tony Meaney penalty 20 minutes from time and a nervy finish. The European Cup draw did throw up the mouthwatering prospect of Limerick v Real Madrid. The decision to move the home leg to Lansdowne Road proved to be a financial disaster but it almost produced one of the greatest upsets in the history of football. Anybody who watched the first 75 minutes would have had little difficulty determining who were the LoI part-timers and who were the most famous and most successful football club in the world but they would have wondered where Real Madrid got the blue shirts. Quite simply Limerick battered them, Johnny Matthews had a goal disallowed for offside, Des Kennedy had given Limerick a deserved lead only for the referee to award a disputed penalty to the Spanish aristocrats as the ball trickled harmlessly wide. A winner 5 minutes from the end rubbed salt into the wounds. 2 weeks later Limerick got to play in front of 60,000 fans at the Bernabeu but despite Des Kennedy pulling the score back to 2-1 just before half time Real ran out comfortable 5-1 winners in the end. Limerick are still dreaming of revenge in a rematch. That season Limerick looked like retaining the title being 3 points clear at the turn of the year however a total collapse saw them finish 10 points behind Athlone. A UEFA Cup tie v Southampton was some consolation. A 3-0 defeat at the Markets Field was followed by a very creditable 1-1 draw at the Dell. The Cup came to Shannonside again a year later when Brendan Storan’s goal defeated Bohemians in the final at a neutral Dalymount Park. This marked Kevin Fitzpatrick’s last game for the club after 22 years between the sticks. Limerick’s last European campaign saw them go out 2-1 on aggregate to AZ67 of Holland. 83/4 season started with the future of senior football in the city being determined in the High Court after a bitter battle for ownership of the club. The season ended with the Shield being won as the trophy was given a brief revival at the time. This also marked Limerick’s last game at their spiritual home of the Markets Field.
1991 saw Limerick lose the League Cup Final to Derry in the Brandywell and also get relegated for the first time in the club’s history. New manager Sam Allardyce took the first division by storm and winning the title by 5 points. Nobody in Limerick is in anyway surprised at his subsequent success. The following season saw Limerick win the League Cup by defeating St Pats and also edging St Pats out of a top 6 spot thanks to a 1-0 win away to eventual champions Cork City. The joy was to be short-lived as relegation followed the next season and so far promotion has eluded Limerick. There have been some near misses along the way including a playoff defeat and of course a memorable League Cup success over Derry City in 2002. Surely it can’t be too long before premier division football returns to Shannonside again.
Very good article gspain.
Was the name change to Limerick FC in 1989 or 1992?
Thanks.
Thanks for that. On the face of it, it would seem to me that Limerick/Limerick United were definitely the same club, Limerick City possibly a different club, and Limerick 37 definitely a different club.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
I realise this isn't the right forum to ask, but what about Drumcondra and Home Farm - same club? Drumcondra seem to have been very successful, yet Home Farm were not. Why the demise?
Also why has Cork had so many clubs over the years - is there something about the place that makes it difficult for clubs to survive there?:confused:
gspain, that was a great read, cheers
I personally think that they're different clubs, if continuations of the original entity. That sounds contradictory but I've never been comfortable with the assertion that our sporadic bankruptcies and other assorted difficulties that cause us to start over is really the same thing as 70 years unbroken membership of the league.
I think Drums merged with Home Farm who were already around. Drumcondra still play at LSL level. The reason for the demise was, as usual, money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
Chronic overspending in most cases.Quote:
Also why has Cork had so many clubs over the years - is there something about the place that makes it difficult for clubs to survive there?:confused:
pretty sure it was 89. that is when Grace left and the colours changed. Name change may have been later as there were issues with the taxman at the time although the club were not saddled with those debts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voice of Reason
Home Farm are probably the most famous and most successful schoolboy club in Dublin. They were a totally separate club to Drumcondra. However Drums left the league midway through the 72/3 season. Effectively Home Farm took them over. They played as Home Farm Drumcondra for the remainder of that season and then only as Home Farm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
There was some bitterness on the Drumcondra side. They were a huge club but went into speedy decline in the late 60's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
The name which was a suggestion by myself was taken on last year. Its Limerick `37 FC My idea was that you can drop the `37 after a few years and can be tucked away in some crest or something as founded in 1937 or something. You think its terrible Danny, i think its ok but then again i would :)
What happened to them? Why the decline?Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Where did they play?
They played at Tolka Park. Home Farm got the longterm lease on Tolka as part of the takeover. Drums won the league in 1965 but quickly went into decline. Crowds dwindled to a couple of hundred at the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
The Prole family had been pumping money in but just decided enough was enough in the end.
Drums would have been the main northside club until they went bust. Bohs would have been an amateur club until around that time. a lot of their support was actually lost to Irish football as well.
One ironic thing was that when Drums won the league in 1965 Sam Prole was also president of the league. He told rock bottom Waterford that they needed "to pull their socks up". Waterford won the league the following season and 6 of the 8 leagues until 1972/3 as Drums were going out of business. Drums never finished higher than 7th.
The club playing in the LSL has no connection with the original club.
And the Home Farm that currently play in the LSL have no connections with the Home Farm that played in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
The amount of "shady" club changes in this league is astonishing...
And Home Farm became Dublin City, who went bust?Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
And Shelbourne now play at Tolka Park?
So when did Shelbourne move to Tolka Park? why? And where did they play before?
A lot of Bohs support was lost to Irish football? Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Thanks for the all the info, by the way.:)
Officially, Home Farm (as a LOI club) folded. The schoolboy and intermediate sides remained (but they had no official connection anyway, bar using the same Whitehall grounds). Dublin City took their spot in the league with a whole new board, but again initailly used Whitehall as a home ground (later moving to Tolka, Richmond and then Dalymount)Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
Shels moved to Tolka Park at the end of the 1989 season, from their previous ground of Harolds Cross Greyhound Stadium (which was then used by St Pats up until December 1993)Quote:
And Shelbourne now play at Tolka Park?
So when did Shelbourne move to Tolka Park? why? And where did they play before?
He meant a lot of Drums support was lost to the league. Bohs, until recently, were always considered to have a small fanbase in Dublin (mostly due to living in Drums shadows and not being very succesful)Quote:
A lot of Bohs support was lost to Irish football? Why?
So Dublin City was a different club altogether from Home Farm?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
And if Home Farm played at Whitehall, then what happened to Tolka Park when Drums folded?
Why did they move from Harold's Cross?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Where were St Pat's playing before 1989 and why did they move to Harold's Cross?
Where do St Pat's play now and why did they leave Harold's Cross?
Why so much moving? Are these grounds close to each other?
OK, that makes sense. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
And not successful because they were amateur?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Have they got a big fanbase now?
The Limerick 37 name has grown on me, I quite like it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by gael353
Its not without precedent (look at Germany) and we'd already used up United, City etc.....
Some people are scared of anything different so enivitably there will be people who dont like the name, its the fear of ridicule you see ;)
correct me on the years etc but it goes roughly like this
Drums play in tolka until 1972 have a long lease
Home Farm merge/takeover 72/3
Shels move into Tolka as tenants in the late 70's/ go back southside to Harolds Cross mid 80's then back to Tolka in the early 90's eventually buying out Home Farm's lease.
Dublin City grew out of Home Farm but were subsequently declared totally separate clubs as Home Farm went back to concentrate on schoolboy football.
Pats have always been a southside club sharing Glenmalure Park in the 50's, playing in Chapelizod, Richmond Park then Harolds Cross and now back to Richmond Park.
Why have they moved about so much?Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Geographically, is Tolka in the north? I presume it's a big deal to move from north to south and vice-versa, so how come Shels have moved between the two?
Also - from which part of the city do Shamrock Rovers hail?
Yes, Tolka is on the Northside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
Rovers would come traditionally from South/West Dublin, having palyed in Milltown for numerous years and have a large fan base in Tallaght.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
Bohs didn't win a league or FAI cup from the mid 30's until they turned pro in 1969.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
I still believe the bohs fanbase is pretty small (not compared to limerick's obviously) even in cup finals they don't bring out huge numbers. They do have a decent steady average support though.
Shamrock Rovers are the Dublin club with huge potential latent support.
Their support would be similar to Pats' and larger than Rovers' at the moment and Shels'. I agree with you that Rovers have the best potential for support in the future, especially with the move to Tallaght.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Thanks. So why did Shels move from South to North? Is that not a big deal?Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
Not dissimilar to Cliftonville (regularly finished bottom of the IL up till the 70s), although Bohs have had more success since turning pro than the Reds.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Why is that? Because of past success? Because of geographical location?Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevB76
Thank you Kev, €10 in the post :)
Rovers are southside. The Tallaght thing is only very very recent and even still there'd be as many pats fans in Tallaght as Rovers. I'm guessing this will changeQuote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
Pats original ground was Richmond Park but when we joined the LOI it was deemed unsuitable. Through the 50s we moved between Milltown, Chapelizod and Dalymount and back to Richmond in 1960. At the end of the 1989 season we moved to Harolds Cross for what was supposed to be a matter of months while Richmond was done up but we stayed until December 93. We've been in Richmond since and thanks to Kelleher we'll be here for a while yetQuote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Was looking at some old LOI tables. Looks like Pats joined the league and immediately "set it on fire" - how come they achieved such immediate success? Where had they been playing before they joined?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanchflower
Pats had been playing in the Leinster Senior League. They were a strong side in the late 40's/early 50's. Had some good cup wins and reached the 1950 semi final and I think 48 as well (would need to check that one).
They won the league in their first season which was still quite an achivement.
Yeah we joined the AUL in 1929 and quickly won everything at Junior level (including FAI Junior Cup) before moving up to Intermediate Level and the LSL. Reached the semi finals of the FAI Senior Cup once as a non league side and also won the (then) prestigious Leinster Senior cup (which including league sides). Prior to being invited to the LOI we won the LSL 3 out of our last 4 years. As gspain said we won the LOI in our first year and won it a couple of other times in the mid 50s, before havinga wait of 36 years for our next title (the first of many in the 90s :) )
Cheers, guys.
Interesting stuff.
Great thread - the history of the club with the condensed and enhanced versions is very useful - perhaps this should be a sticky? And perhaps useful for some of the other clubs too...
Is it too late to say that I quite like the name now too?Quote:
Originally Posted by gael353