Ireland playing 4-3-2-1

I really believe a good change that our new manager could make is in formation from 4-4-2 to 4-3-2-1 formation just like Chelsea under Mourinho at the start or what Barcelona use.

I believe now, that it would suit us better. I think we need to utilize our best player, Keane (McGeady) by playing him in the best position for him. I think instead of having him up front with Doyle (Long, Morrison), play him just off him to the right with Duffer (Hunt) doing the same, as he did with Chelsea to the left. Doyle's lack of pace wouldn't be exposed as much as it is now and just have him concentrating on finishing.

I think we need to protect our weak enough defence with O'Shea (Carsley) sitting just in front of them and having players like Reid x2 and Miller and Ireland taking up the 2 other Midfield slots.

With Kilbane (Emmm...) and Finnan (S. Kelly) playing as full backs they both have great engines despite their age and would have no problem in getting forward to support.

posted this XI before, think it would work and is the formation u outlined

Given

Finnan Dunne O'Shea Kilbane

McGeady Carsley S. Reid Hunt (Duff when fit)

Ireland (or Andy Reid)

Keane (or Doyle if Robbie doesn't get the act together for us :mad:)

Keane should never be the player up front on his own.

And Doyle and Andy Reid are two of our best players and should always be in the starting line-up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Keane should never be the player up front on his own.

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Could not agree more. If Keane and more so Berbatov's time at spurs proves anything is that Keane is ten times the better player with someone alongside him who can knock the ball down to him etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elroy

someone alongside him who can knock the ball down to him etc.

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International recall for Gary Doherty?;)

The most important thing for me is that there isn't a big gap between the midfield and the strikers. When we've played Carsley and Andy Reid together they both like to sit deep. Keane had to drop back constantly to retrieve the ball. The wide players are left with very little option but to run with the ball up field whenever they get it. The pass inside to a central midfielder was usually a backwards pass and therefore back to square one.

Carsley, Andy Reid, Stephen Reid, Duff, Hunt, McGeady, Ireland, Keane, Doyle. That's 9 players that could easily make our best 11 but there's only room for 6 of them. Who drops out and what's the best system to suit them?

If Carsley plays, a straight forward 4-4-2 isn't an option imo. Unless the other 3 midfielders are given the freedom to move around like Arteta, Cahill, etc. at Everton.

I think we have 4 real options for central midfield from the above list of players:

1.
--------Carsley--------
----Reid------Reid-----

2.
-------Carsley--------
---Reid-----Ireland----

3.
-----Reid---Reid-----

4.
--Reid--Reid--Ireland--

The 1st 2 are the same and you could either play a diamond formation with one player in behind 2 strikers or 2 creative players with 1 lone striker.

The 2nd is a basic 2 man central midfield and the options after that are aplenty.

The 4th option would be adding Ireland to the central midfield alongside the 2 Reid's. An attacking 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 are the options with that.

It also depends whether Stephen Ireland is ready to play central midfield in terms of intelligence and work rate. I think he would be in a 3 man central midfield and played there quite a bit under Keegan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Keane should never be the player up front on his own.

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Couldn't agree more. Keane is ineffective as a lone striker and always will be. Not big enough and not a target man to even fit the Kevin Davies mould. Drifts too much as well.

If we had a big target man for a lead striker we could do that, but Doyle cannot play as a lone striker either. Good in the air sure, but not big enough to be a target man in my view.

He'd be wasted in this formation.

It's worth noting that Doyle does NOT play the target man role at Reading, Kitson is clearly the aerial option, and knocks a lot of balls down to Doyle.

We should play players for Ireland in roles they are used to playing at their clubs, 2 days before an international match is not the time to be learning a new role unless we're desperate.

Well, if we play on the ground that's all fine and well, but I think we should have an aerial option if we're being closed down too fast.

Just because you're choosing to have an aerial option on the field doesn't mean you're thinking of it as your first option, but to have two small forwards creates a situation that is too easy for most teams to defend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

We need to play less long balls and keep the goddamn ball on the ground.

The only midfielder who can seemingly do that is Andy Reid, it seems like the others are always instructed to lob aimless balls either to Kilbane or just whip them into the box and hope.

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I was rewatching the Slovakia game the other day and although I only got about half an hour in, I noticed that every single long ball (and there were a lot of them) was aimed either at Kilbane or Doyle. The Slovaks noticed this and started closing them both down before we hoofed it. The new manager needs to get us to play with a bit more variety. I really wish our defenders (and our goalkeeper) played the ball out on the ground from the back more often. Too many potential attacks break down from playing stupid long balls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by irishfan86

If we had a big target man for a lead striker we could do that, but Doyle cannot play as a lone striker either. Good in the air sure, but not big enough to be a target man in my view.

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His performance against Slovakia as a lone striker was top class.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

I was rewatching the Slovakia game the other day and although I only got about half an hour in, I noticed that every single long ball (and there were a lot of them) was aimed either at Kilbane or Doyle.

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It was the same at home against Germany and Cyprus, every single kickout from the keeper seemed to be aimed at Kilbane. Needless to say, both the Germans and Cypriots soon realised this and started marking him from kickouts. What about mixing it up and giving the ball to Dunne, for Man City Hamann or Johnson are always available for a pass from defence, to lay it off to Elano or Ireland, i.e. the playmakers?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

The most important thing for me is that there isn't a big gap between the midfield and the strikers. When we've played Carsley and Andy Reid together they both like to sit deep. Keane had to drop back constantly to retrieve the ball. The wide players are left with very little option but to run with the ball up field whenever they get it. The pass inside to a central midfielder was usually a backwards pass and therefore back to square one.

Carsley, Andy Reid, Stephen Reid, Duff, Hunt, McGeady, Ireland, Keane, Doyle. That's 9 players that could easily make our best 11 but there's only room for 6 of them. Who drops out and what's the best system to suit them?

If Carsley plays, a straight forward 4-4-2 isn't an option imo. Unless the other 3 midfielders are given the freedom to move around like Arteta, Cahill, etc. at Everton.

I think we have 4 real options for central midfield from the above list of players:

1.
--------Carsley--------
----Reid------Reid-----

2.
-------Carsley--------
---Reid-----Ireland----

3.
-----Reid---Reid-----

4.
--Reid--Reid--Ireland--

The 1st 2 are the same and you could either play a diamond formation with one player in behind 2 strikers or 2 creative players with 1 lone striker.

The 2nd is a basic 2 man central midfield and the options after that are aplenty.

The 4th option would be adding Ireland to the central midfield alongside the 2 Reid's. An attacking 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 are the options with that.

It also depends whether Stephen Ireland is ready to play central midfield in terms of intelligence and work rate. I think he would be in a 3 man central midfield and played there quite a bit under Keegan.

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Super post... My sentiments on most of it. I don't think though that if we play doyle and keane up front that we'd ever have Andy Reid and Ireland on the same starting line up. Doesn't offer much in terms of mobility. There's allot of variables really.

There's no point in coming up with a formation to accomadate everyone though as we seldom have everyone to choose from. I think one that offers the flexibility to absorb suspensions, omisions and injuries suits best.

----------------Given----------------

Finnan----McShane--Dunne----Finnan

---------Carsley-----SReid-----------

---Keane------Ireland----Duff--------

---------------Doyle-----------------

For example if Ireland's out, Andy Reid slots straight in. Same for McGeady and Duff and so on,

That asks a lot of Finnan!

4-2-3-1 works well in theory.

2 defensive midfielders

2 wide players and a withdrawn forward, Doyle leading from the front.

Not a lot of change to our traditional 442, mainly just some subtle role changes.

sure while we're at it i'd go for the following defence:

Finnan-----Dunne-----Dunne----Finnan

sure we can dream can't we! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

4 Andy Reid's across the centre'd be nice too.

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That's asking for the "sure Andy Reid is as big as four" comment? :rolleyes::p

might as well get sam allardyce in, seeing as he pioneered this formation with bolton

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba

sure while we're at it i'd go for the following defence:

Finnan-----Dunne-----Dunne----Finnan

sure we can dream can't we! :)

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If it was possible to quickly clone playes I'd go with

----------------Given----------------

Dunne----Dunne--Dunne----Dunne

---Duff------Dunne-----AReid------Duff-----

---------------Doyle--Keane---------------

We all Dream of a team of Richie Dunnes a Team of Richie Dunnes a Tea...................

.....................Given

J.O'Brien...A.O'Brien...Dunne...O'Shea

...........S.Reid.........A.Reid

Hunt..............Keane.............Duff

.................... Doyle