Youth

With all our Irish talent being snapped up by clubs across the water, i think that our pool of talent is drying up. The move cross channel is seenby most aspiring players in Ireland as the Pinnacle and something to aim for. How many make it?. Its obvious that so much talent is wasted going over too early, and our own leagues are suffering, but ultimately we are suffering at international level.

I reckon our best way forward would be to take a leaf out of the French book. Look at Clairefontaine. I know its too much like talking sense, but the FAI should set up a Centre of Excellence for youth training, were players can train every day and still continue their school studies, that way not losing out should their chosen careers not materialise. This might discourage so many moving abroad, if they knew the proper training could be given at home.

I am interested to hear others thoughts on this.

This has all been discussed before.

Clairefontain could never happen in Ireland, even in England. Clubs have too much power.

Think that's a great idea. Especially as for every talented player who goes over to England another goes by the wayside by being without direct supervision (Wolves youth team has been littered with great young Irish lads who have fallen by the wayside - Keith Andrews, JJ Melligan etc, with apparently Kevin Thornton of Coventry going a similar way. At least if they were all together they could be supervised with their families relatively closer and without the example being set by the nouveau riche younger players who have established themselves in the first team.

It would also cater for those players who don't want to move abroad like Roy O'Donovan and actually get all of the players playing in the same style (quick pass & move) to help us develop on a united front for the future. Even better if the FAI could bring in the best coaches from around the world to help them develop.

Reading the other day that Saha, Henry & Trezeguet were all in the same year at Clairefontaine - not bad going if it's true.

well i believe saha and henry were, but im almost sure that Trezeguet played his youth Football in Argentina!!, Platense i believe was the club!, someone can correct me if im wrong though!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clairefontaine

Thats got more info on Clairefontaine.
Like you say MancIrishWolf, it would help the players have the same understanding of the game, which is an aspect we really lack, there is no Irish style!

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Originally Posted by Manc Irish Wolf

Reading the other day that Saha, Henry & Trezeguet were all in the same year at Clairefontaine - not bad going if it's true.

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Tis true alright.

They were in Malaysia in 97 from which our only graduate was Duff.

If you think thats impressive by the French, have a look at the Argentina youth squads since 1997. Player of the Tournament in Malaysia was Riquelme.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

They were in Malaysia in 97 from which our only graduate was Duff.

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Well it did produce Aidan Lynch and Tommy Morgan!!:)

Good article which basically outlines reason England are such an average team:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle2910642.ece

If you're small and slow you'll find it really, really hard to make it in Britain. The thing is, slow players have to use their brains a lot more and the vast majority of playmakers are slow (Pirlo, Alonso, Xavi, Riquelme, Nakamura, Juninho, and on and on and on). England simply don't have any real playmakers, unless Paul Scholes qualifies. I don't know if the training methods is the reason for this but it's certainly a convincing article.

Maybe we need to look to somewhere like Japan.

I've always been a great advocate (no pun intended) of the Dutch (Ajax) Method (since 95 actually) and have coached my teams accordingly. Some of the skills on the videos are amazing. Not juggling and all that sh1t but match related skills.

THe simple fact is only a small number of players make it regardless of nationality. Irish players are no different to that. THink about the number of English players that fail to make the grade?

Young Irish players choose to go to England becuase the facilities are better and the personnel developing them are supposedly very good (money attracts the best). Also the money on offer if you make it at a lower end Championship club is excellent.

Young players can come back to Ireland and play professionally if they are good enough for LOI. Joxer Kelly Liverpool) and Stephen O'Donnell (Arsenal) at Bohs, Sean Kelly (Arsenal) at Cork to name a few examples

Great idea but FAI are already two steps ahead of ye. The Emerging Talent Programme is the Irish Version of Clairefontaine, it is still really in it's infancy but its a major step forward.
Basically each schoolboy league round the country now has an official FAI Emerging Talent League Centre where the best players in the respective train and play games twice a week then each Monday the best players from the leagues go to 10 regionalc entres wer ethe best players from 2-3 leagues get together for elite coaching.

The next step is the devleopment of a national academy at Abbotstown which is our Clairefontaine. So this is what is happening and the FAI Have the correct system in place basically mirroing the French system and avaoiding the English where each club does there own thing!!!!

Its good to see the FAI are making an effort, but they really are going a long way about it. I recall reports a few weeks ago of the FAI earning in the region of 40mill profit last year, with that kind of a turnover, surely they could find enough capital to push ahead with such a project in abbotstown sooner rather than later?, i know there is the small matter of Lansdowne Roads redevelopment to consider too, but realistically.

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Originally Posted by teckno

Great idea but FAI are already two steps ahead of ye. The Emerging Talent Programme is the Irish Version of Clairefontaine, it is still really in it's infancy but its a major step forward.
Basically each schoolboy league round the country now has an official FAI Emerging Talent League Centre where the best players in the respective train and play games twice a week then each Monday the best players from the leagues go to 10 regionalc entres wer ethe best players from 2-3 leagues get together for elite coaching.

The next step is the devleopment of a national academy at Abbotstown which is our Clairefontaine. So this is what is happening and the FAI Have the correct system in place basically mirroing the French system and avaoiding the English where each club does there own thing!!!!

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How does this differ from the Kennedy Cup squads ?
Non Premier players need not apply.

Are you telling me that when the next Conor Clifford turns 15 that he's not gonna move his whole family to England and he's gonna stay here til he's 18/19. Dream on.

I would love to see it work as I spend alot of time coaching kids but it will not happen. Eoin Hand has spent the last ten years trying to stop kids leaving before their 16th birthday but clubs get around that by moving their family over and giving them a house and a job.

Freedom of movement in the EU cannot be restricted, just follow the money.

The DDSL and their clubs run football in this country, NOT the FAI.

I think it all boils down to the FAI's lack of willingness to invest in the past that is leavin us up sh!t creek at the minute, not to mention their unwillingness to invest at present.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Maybe we need to look to somewhere like Japan.

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What would you look for in Japan?

A karaoke machine wholesaler?

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Originally Posted by osarusan

What would you look for in Japan?

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Their training techniques, etc. For a country that didn't have a professional league 15 years ago they've come some way. I really admire how the Japanese play football and I think they'll be challenging for world cups within the next decade or 2. You obviously know a lot more than me but if I'm not mistaking you tend to be a little negative towards Japanese football?

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Their training techniques, etc. For a country that didn't have a professional league 15 years ago they've come some way. I really admire how the Japanese play football.

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True, but then they're all small here, so maybe it wouldn't help so much.

And here's part of the reason they've come along at club level (not international, obviously) - http://www.j-league.or.jp/data/view....&y=NEW0100&l=E

Lot and lots of Brazilians.

Incidentally, I was at a game today, Urawa Reds lost away to already-relegated Yokohama FC, and consequently lost the league to Kashima Antlers. The standard was pretty poor, esp when Urawa were league leaders. They do have a lot of Foreign managers here, one Brazilian and one German at todays game. A few Eastern European managers also, so I'd say tactically they've come a long way.

EDIT: Eirebhoy, I wouldn't call myself negative about Japanese football, I just don't think it's very good:D


As long as football is the number 2 sport here, and given the popularity of Baseball, it always will be the number 2 sport, I think it will be difficult for the National team to get much better. I think it was a lot easier to improve from where they were 15 years ago to where they are now, than it will be to make significant improvements in the future.

Just heard Wenger on Football Focus talking about developing youth players. He was saying that if a player doesn't have technique by 13 he will never have it.

He said the most important years are 7-13 and the best way of developing techhique is training (a minimum of) 4 times a week. Does the current underage / schoolboy structure cater for this? Hmmm I'm not sure.....

good article about this and Kevin Doyle in the independent today

http://sport.independent.co.uk/footb...cle3213060.ece

Very good article, shows a different side

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Originally Posted by kennedmc

Just heard Wenger on Football Focus talking about developing youth players. He was saying that if a player doesn't have technique by 13 he will never have it.

He said the most important years are 7-13 and the best way of developing techhique is training (a minimum of) 4 times a week. Does the current underage / schoolboy structure cater for this? Hmmm I'm not sure.....

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At that age there'd only usually be one session per week.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Good article which basically outlines reason England are such an average team:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle2910642.ece

If you're small and slow you'll find it really, really hard to make it in Britain. The thing is, slow players have to use their brains a lot more and the vast majority of playmakers are slow (Pirlo, Alonso, Xavi, Riquelme, Nakamura, Juninho, and on and on and on). England simply don't have any real playmakers, unless Paul Scholes qualifies. I don't know if the training methods is the reason for this but it's certainly a convincing article.

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Malouda:

"Training sessions here are terrifying.

"They are just like matches, and you go flat out.

"During the actual games it is as though everybody's brains are switched off.

"People play by instinct, spontaneously, in the way they did when they first discovered football."

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Originally Posted by eekers

good article about this and Kevin Doyle in the independent today

http://sport.independent.co.uk/footb...cle3213060.ece

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10 million. I find that hard to believe.

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Originally Posted by kennedmc

Just heard Wenger on Football Focus talking about developing youth players. He was saying that if a player doesn't have technique by 13 he will never have it.

He said the most important years are 7-13

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it is true. the main techniques are learned during that period. it is outlined in the FAI technical development Plan. the 7-11 timeframe is known (rather cleverly) as the FUNdamental stage. emphasis should be on letting the player familarise themselves with the football and develop the skills themselves, not through coaching which is only needed from the 11-13 ages and even then it should be on fun and enjoyment and not competiteve - i think it is called the training to play stage (not training to compete which is later).

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Originally Posted by kennedmc

and the best way of developing techhique is training (a minimum of) 4 times a week. Does the current underage / schoolboy structure cater for this? Hmmm I'm not sure........

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it most certainly does not, but in fairness the FAI cannot be blamed for this. studies, other sports, play station, lack of volunteers, nobody pplaying football on the street anymore (which would count as a session) are the main problems.

the FAI (credit where it is due) are trying to sort out the grass roots with regards centres of excellence/emerging talens, 'coaches coaching', grant aided projects ... etc. it is a long, and mainly thankless, road but they are doing it and deserve kudos for it.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Malouda:

"Training sessions here are terrifying.

"They are just like matches, and you go flat out.

"During the actual games it is as though everybody's brains are switched off.

"People play by instinct, spontaneously, in the way they did when they first discovered football."

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A piece from an interview by Italian player Luca Santonocito of Celtic:

Che differenza c'è fra i nostri allenamenti e i loro?

Quelli italiani sono basati soprattutto su tecnica e tattica con un basso ritmo di gioco; quelli scozzesi c’e meno tecnica e tattica, molta piu fisicità e resistenza, i ritmi di allenamento sono sempre molto elevati. Inoltre, io mi alleno tutti i giorni tranne il mercoledì, ho due partite alla settimana, e alcuni giorni le sessioni di allenamento sono sia mattino che pomeriggio, oltre alla palestra.

Babelfish translates it to this:

Which difference is between our training and theirs?

The Italians above all base on technique and tactics with a low rhythm of game; Scots c’and little technique and tactics, a lot piu fisicità and resistance, the training rhythms are always a lot elevate to you. Moreover, I train myself every day except the Wednesday, I have two left to the week, and some days the training sessions are are mattino that afternoon, beyond to the arena.

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The training in Ireland and Britain really can't be good for our players with the way the game has changed. imo it's the single reason why England didn't qualify for the Euro 2004, a lack of intelligent midfielders. It looks pretty certain that the problem is the coaching.

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Originally Posted by kennedmc

THe simple fact is only a small number of players make it regardless of nationality. Irish players are no different to that. THink about the number of English players that fail to make the grade?

Young Irish players choose to go to England becuase the facilities are better and the personnel developing them are supposedly very good (money attracts the best). Also the money on offer if you make it at a lower end Championship club is excellent.

Young players can come back to Ireland and play professionally if they are good enough for LOI. Joxer Kelly Liverpool) and Stephen O'Donnell (Arsenal) at Bohs, Sean Kelly (Arsenal) at Cork to name a few examples

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O'Donnell was captain of the Arsenal under 18's and no offense to Bohs but he had a lot higher aspirations than playing for them.
I suppose the question is would he have been better off being nurtured in an acadamy in Ireland?

Joxer Kelly was considered by far the best player of his age group at liverpool. Were he not to have become homesick at Liverpool, as I am led to belive, he would have had a good career in England.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

The training in Ireland and Britain really can't be good for our players with the way the game has changed. imo it's the single reason why England didn't qualify for the Euro 2004, a lack of intelligent midfielders. It looks pretty certain that the problem is the coaching.

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There are plans in place at the moment to eradicate the problem in England (think there's something similar done by the FAI, but the coaching education doesn't seem to be good enough). There was an article in the telegraph last weekend about Man Utd's coaching in their academy and how the FA are looking to duplicate methods in their new youth academy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai.../sfnwin112.xml