Ministers on drugs (allegedly)

Choosing my words carefully here for obvious reasons.

I am troubled by events of recent weeks. As I underdtand it a journalist made a set of claims about drug taking in the higher strata of society, including a pilot and, more a government minister.

Since then, all of the response to this allegation has been "process" related i.e. did she have a tape, when was the tape made, how was it made, who is this journo, who did she tell about the tape etc etc etc etc etc

Now, clearly I have no idea whether the actual story is true or not - I would be surprised if she made it up but clearly we don't know.

What troubles me is that if the story was true and the powers that be knew it to be true, this is precisely the strategy that would be employed to "defned" the allegation.

For the government to truly deal with this, they could announce that they have interviewed every minister and have confirmed that every minister had confirmed that they were non users.

That is highlky unlikely to happen, however, as a) there is every chance the story is true, b) under privacy laws, it would probably be illegal, c) nobody would agree to it.

I am reminded of the famous West Wing episode - this smells.

The responce from the goverment is ridiculous they had the minister for drugs on darcy and he said no way woul dany one i the goverment be taking coke .

Sounded like the Irish mammy saying my johnny isnt like that.

Of course someone in there has or is taking coke its so wide spread and the fact they found traces of coke on the back of the toilets , but the pitch fork and torch mentality of the general irish public makes it impossible for him to admit it and keep his job.

True or not, unless the journalist has concrete proof (like recovering the missing tape or finding notes from the interview) the allegation won't stick.

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Originally Posted by superfrank

True or not, unless the journalist has concrete proof (like recovering the missing tape or finding notes from the interview) the allegation won't stick.

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Catch 22... Release the tape and never have a confidential source talk to her again, and have her career ruined. Or destroy the tape so it can't be recovered (a la the Irish Times), have the Government smear her rather than deal with the issue, and have her career ruined.

Should be easy enough to spot who it is anyway - pick the Ministers that are arrogant, are adamant they can do no wrong, shout down those that disagree, and can't stop talking sh!te. Should narrow the field a bit...

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Originally Posted by Macy

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Should be easy enough to spot who it is anyway - pick the Ministers that are arrogant, are adamant they can do no wrong, shout down those that disagree, and can't stop talking sh!te. Should narrow the field a bit...

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Well its also an appetite suppressant, so that's probably Harney and Cowen in the clear, and I'm sure neither of the Green ministers would do such an unethicaly produced substance, so that narrows it down a bit.

I think the book that used this "claim" to boost sales was fairly useless. RTE were pathetic to base a 2 part tv show on it. Is it really news that middle class people take drugs? :confused:

Apparently as of last weekend the book had sold 3,500 copies. The author originally claimed she had a tape to back up this claim about a Minister. RTE initially claimed they has heard the tape & now everyone denies they said that :rolleyes:

i'd be more concerned abou the amount of over the counter medication the politicians are taking

If it's supposed to be going on for weeks, I genuinely heard nothing of this until I read the title of this thread..

I am waiting for a Primetime show with "they must all resign now in their own blood to sniff out the culprit" anytime soon.:rolleyes:

I can think of a fair few politicians who should be taking drugs.

I saw one of those High Society programmes (the first one I think) and if that was anything to go by this story has little factual basis. (it is the same wan isn't it?) Publicity stunt most like.

What an awful programme that was. It was more like a film than investigative journalism. Best (ie funniest) part was the bit on the well-to-do BMW-driving 30-something accountant, or the like, who went to his mother :rolleyes: to get a €6,000 :rolleyes: loan to pay off the a drug dealer. Laughable.

As for ministers, I'd have no major problem if they did. In most cases, like the pilot, you might say ok once it's not during work, but with TDs it'd be the opposite, think how much better Oireachtas TV would be! That classic Streets line comes to mind; 'imagine the world's leaders on pills.....'

Hmmm which politician would you most like to sip a few pints/do a line/drop a pill etc with?

Our former Minister for Justice on Charlie given that it makes people even more arrogant.:eek:

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Originally Posted by sonofstan

Well its also an appetite suppressant, so that's probably Harney and Cowen in the clear, and I'm sure neither of the Green ministers would do such an unethicaly produced substance, so that narrows it down a bit.

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Probably rules Lenihan out as well ....Dempsey is relatively trim mind ...has the vacant stare of a hardened glue-sniffer as well.:D

Can we knock the speculation on the head now please? Unless you're willing to back it up in a court of law, of course.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

Can we knock the speculation on the head now please? Unless you're willing to back it up in a court of law, of course.

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With tapes and contempurous notes obviously

It was sensation stuff alright without back up she lost her side of the story.

I don't doubt the issue itself, in a country where prescription drugs, alcohol etc. are abused by every part of society in numbers that are not quantified it would lead me to believe that another one to that list is not that far from reality.

However to sensationalise the issue has made her point trivial.

The main reason to be skeptical is that she has come from nowhere as an investigative journalist and regardless of whether its true or not, there is no rational explanation for why a Government minister would speak to her (never mind a nun!).

I've no doubt half the country is on coke (there's enough bs being talked to indicate as much) but I'm not convinced she's legit.

This "story" even made the Observer yesterday which afaik does not have an Irish edition.

The author was mentioning how she was thinking of destroying the tape recording (Minister wanted a copy him/herself) as she felt uncomfortable keeping he tape. She suggested shadowy figures had been lurking around her garden. Laughable stuff, I think she is hyping a movie deal. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by pete

She suggested shadowy figures had been lurking around her garden. Laughable stuff, I think she is hyping a movie deal. :rolleyes:

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Think she suggested a certain newspaper was hanging around her garden - they refute it, but won't sue, so make of that what you will.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

The main reason to be skeptical is that she has come from nowhere as an investigative journalist and regardless of whether its true or not, there is no rational explanation for why a Government minister would speak to her (never mind a nun!).

I've no doubt half the country is on coke (there's enough bs being talked to indicate as much) but I'm not convinced she's legit.

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He was all coked up ! Rational doesnt come into it ..

I was talking to a guy coked off his head one night he was telling me how there are only 2 song writters better than him in the world !!! and he didnt have Bob Dylan in his list :D

To be honest I did'nt have a problem with the stories such as the accountant going to his mother for a lend of €6000 to pay off a drug dealer.I am in recovery for Alcohol myself so being surrounded by addiction(meetings, aftercare etc) I hear crazy stories every week that would make the hair stand on end.Thats the madness of addiction though and therein lies the problem with the programme.If it was a programme on addiction then fair enough but as a programme on the effects of coke most people would have laughed at it as OTT.

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Originally Posted by cheifo

Thats the madness of addiction though and therein lies the problem with the programme.If it was a programme on addiction then fair enough but as a programme on the effects of coke most people would have laughed at it as OTT.

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Good point. It was definitely way too dramatised and scaremonger-ific for any cynics like myself to be impressed. There was nothing new in it at all. It's hardly a revelation that coke is abused in this country. It's much easier to get, at least in my experience, than weed ffs - mostly as so much money can be made from it, it's smaller and doesn't stink out your whole house. My coke-loving housemate was briefly perturbed by the programme alright (don't know why he turned it on in the first place really) but there were not enough scientific/health arguments to stop him doing a line within twenty minutes of the programme's end. And I can guarantee that isn't sensationalism. :(

All power to you with the alcohol problem by the way Chiefo. Remember, foot.ie is always here for you. :)

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Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

Good point. It was definitely way too dramatised and scaremonger-ific for any cynics like myself to be impressed. There was nothing new in it at all. It's hardly a revelation that coke is abused in this country. It's much easier to get, at least in my experience, than weed ffs - mostly as so much money can be made from it, it's smaller and doesn't stink out your whole house. My coke-loving housemate was briefly perturbed by the programme alright

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Not to take away from the seriousness of the issue but I just got a fun mental picture of you smoking weed in the same house as your coke fiend housemate.

Has to be an odd couple esque sitcom in there somewhere :D

Cheers Kingdom Hoop, having enjoyed the drunk stories thread I am looking forward to welcoming some of my Foot.ie colleagues on board the sane train.;)Lordy this Christmas is going to be very very strange.:)

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Not to take away from the seriousness of the issue but I just got a fun mental picture of you smoking weed in the same house as your coke fiend housemate.

Has to be an odd couple esque sitcom in there somewhere

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:D Yeah, a strange mix at times. Pretty uncomfortable for me sometimes, but in fairness usually the two don't overlap all that much, he only does coke Thursday - Saturday, times when I'd tend not to smoke much owing to it debilitating going out boisterousness. And from Sunday - Wednesday we happily share our nonsensical giggles.

Actually after some morning contemplation, an 'Ireland's Addictions Thread' (or words to that effect) and the forces therein may be a more worthwhile discussion than the current title. We're not really going anywhere discussing this 'story'. Whether unfortunately or otherwise I think I might be able to contribute quite a bit.

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The societal abuse of alcohol indicates a serious cultural deficiency, converging on a cultural inability to comprehend how the natural mechanism that is humanity should properly function. To put it as starkly as possible: we have lost the capacity to teach our children how to live.

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- Journalist John Waters a few weeks ago.

I think he's right. Alcohol is something of a crutch, a glorious one at that, but it can easily morph from a relatively benign crutch to being a depended-upon wheelchair. We probably place too much value on it. In order to solve epidemics like Ireland's infatuation with booze etc (importantly, I'd imagine if alcohol is any kind of indication, then the drug problem is hardly at its peak) we need an embracing vaccine, not just a responsive case-by-case antidote. Some kind of paradigm shift that makes people look at life a bit differently.

When addiction-related problems cost the country, family, and friends immeasurable harm I don't think the libertarian argument really stands up. Yes we are responsible only for our own actions but we're not living in an existential bubble at the same time, if our actions can cost other parties so much (be it financial or emotional) then our addictions are very much a problem that needs solving.

Alcohol may make Irish people very happy when it comes to a study by The Economist, but there is an ambivalence, a blasé-ness, to the over-indulgence in alcohol that perhaps masks what is happening on a deeper level. But with these cultural things it's as hard to precipitate any changes of course as it is with a huge iceberg. But we know drinking and drug use is steadily increasing. Maybe people don't really think that's a problem, I dunno. But personally speaking, the equation 'more alcohol = more fun' on a night out does not make sense from experience, and of course economic theory - marginal utility and all that. Seriously though, over-consumption is a problem that pervades society and is one we seriously need to think about. I'm just beginning to now, I'd like some company as I do. :) (will I shrug my shoulders and just blame it on capitalism I wonder??)

I suppose, donning my Presidential hat, I'd encourage people to understand that less can be more, and that we don't appreciate the simpler things in life, like nature for example, half enough. Whatever you appreciate appreciates. So if you continue to over-value alcohol/drugs/money you're slip slidin' away from true happiness.



Apologies for making the above post in the week of the foot.ie bash! I can assure all concerned that I will be having as much fun (probably more cos ye're burdened with me whereas I get the pleasure of ye're company.:p) as anyone but, famous last words, won't be carried home afterwards. Also, I noted OneRedArmy said half the country is on coke, obviously he wasn't being stastically serious but an anonymous poll here would be enlightening. Why not? Out of curiosity I'd love to see it - maybe have 'regular (at least once a month) user', 'the odd time', 'once or twice' or 'no, never.' Hopefully enough people would participate to make it some kind of indicator??

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Has to be an odd couple esque sitcom in there somewhere...

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Which one is Cheech? :D :D :D

Kingdom Hoop and friend?

On a serious note, I would approve of coke users being charged with aiding and abetting organised crime. The fact that some of these well heeled individuals, be they politicians or otherwise, cannot see the link between their snorting and drive by gun crime and contract killings beggars belief. There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE!

I have met people in my daily life over the years who are suspicious about prescribed drugs which at least if they are ineffective you can sue the pharmaceutical company concerned . And yet those self same people either smoked hash or popped illicit tablets.
I mean they didn't trust a pharmaceutically trained individual, but a Colombian criminal oh no problem !

Coke is a particularly seedy drug.I have never met anyone who it does anything for.

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

On a serious note, I would approve of coke users being charged with aiding and abetting organised crime.

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That might be an accurate assessment but would you just charge coke users? What about other illegal drug users? :confused:

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Originally Posted by pete

That might be an accurate assessment but would you just charge coke users? What about other illegal drug users? :confused:

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Well coke users are usually affluent tax dodgers but you have a point :D