Player ratings v Wales

I know it was a meaningless game (anyone else hear the Sky commentator say it had been a 'lively friendly' in the first half!) but I thought we could maybe have a bit more discussion on how the lads performed today.

My view...

Given 8 (where in the name of God would we be without him?)
Kilbane 6
O'Shea 5
McShane 5
Finnan 6
McGeady 7.5 in first half, 6 in second half...maybe 6.9 overall!
Reid 7
Carsley 7 (was a proper defensive midfielder, several times when Wales hoofed it clear he was back to pick up the ball and get us back on the front foot)
Miller 3 (dreadful)
Doyle 8
Robbie 7 (but his running was excellent, close to an 8 if finishing was better)

Anybody else?

Off Topic - Congratulations to Scotland, who deserve every credit for a wonderful campaign (we could learn a lot from the way they get performances from average players) and to NI - I thought they had totally run out of steam but that was an excellent result for them tonight.

eh yea, Stephen hunt. Kinda made an impact when he came on - like an 8.5 type impact. agree with the above ratings except: McGeady was quite good - more an 8 in my book. I thought carsley was excellent - also an 8. given gets a 9.

Completely forgot the subs - think Hunt served about a 17 when he came on, I absolutely love that scruffy fecker, always looks like he is desperate to do well and work for the team. I'd love to see him starting but I'm actually starting to think that he might have Solskjaer Syndrome, he's so useful he might actually be better as an impact sub. He deserves to start but is that the best thing for the side?

McGeady was brilliant until the Welsh lad started to figure him out, which he did after about 40 minutes. He was good on the ball and I think it was his best game for us, but after seeing how awesome he was against Benfica in Celtic's last CL game I expected him to give the lad an absolute nightmare for 90 minutes, and I think he faded as the game went on. Promising though, the inherant optimism in me (I remember predicting 6 points in Eastern Europe after the Denmark friendly...) is starting to flare up again in advance of the 2010 draw next week.

Given 9
Finnan 6
Kilbane 7
McShane 5
O'Shea 6.5
McGeady 6.5
Miller 4
Carsley 6.5
Reid 6.5
Doyle 8
Keane 7

Hunt 8

IMO.

Given: World class saves to keep us in it
Finnan: Poor for the opening goal, but improved after it
O'Shea: Solid, if unspectacular
McShane: Bad positioning led to the penalty, but probably still going to be Dunne's defensive partner
Kilbane: Won the ball well in the air, but needs to work on positioning
Miller: Said it before the game, he's not a right winger. And he proved it.
Reid: Played the ball around well when he was in space, but he was closed down well by the opposition
Carsley: Did his job well, without ever really excelling
McGeady: Probably his best competitive display for Ireland, deserved a goal
Keane: First competitive away goal since Holland in 2000
Doyle: That goal in Slovakia really started his season, he hasn't looked back since

Subs
Hunt: Argument to be made that he should have started, and McGeady on the right, but again showed his worth as an impact substitute
Potter: Not enough time to make any real difference to the game

Given 8 - excellent
Finnan 5 - caught out for Wales goal
Kilbane 5 - made a few errors
McShane 4 -caught out for pace and positioning
O'Shea 6 - didn't do much
McGeady 6 - bad delivery, but worked hard
Miller 4 - just poor
Carsley 5 - invisibly man
Reid 6 - poor passing throughout
Doyle 8 - goal and assist, what more can you ask for?
Keane 7 - nice finish - poor heading again though

Hunt 6.5 - yes made an excellent start, but he then ran around like a headless chicken. Rarely even tried to pass the ball to somebody else.

If Stan was in charge you would all be saying that performance was a disgrace. We just drew with a side made up of Championship and League One journey-men. Once again the Irish team under-preform. Perhaps nobody cares anymore.

we do care Philly. We just want to retain some dignity while we tuck this campaign away to the archives...

Why did Miller start out wide? I think Reid is useful in the centre but seeing as that was probably the strongest 11 available surely Reid is more versatile and would have been a better wide man.

I would have put McGeady on the right, Reid on the left and Miller through the centre.

Mind you I'm not the Ireland gaafa....

in case u didn't know

Given 8
Finnan 5
Kilbane 7
McShane 5
O'Shea 7
McGeady 6.5
Miller 5
Carsley 6
Reid 6
Doyle 8
Keane 8

Hunt 9
I thought we played well ut looking through the Welsh team, was Koumas the only Premiership player??? They really are dreadful IMO.

Why cant we ever hold on to a lead. How many times in the last few years have we conceded late goals??

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I thought we played well ut looking through the Welsh team, was Koumas the only Premiership player??? They really are dreadful IMO.

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I laugh at all the comments here about how poor we supposedly are because we don't have a lot of great individuals.

A quick look at Northern Ireland will tell you you don't need fantastic individuals to be a decent team. Also, we were missing players (Bellamy/Bale) and Davies, Collins and Gabbidon are Premiership regulars, as well as Koumas.

Given: God help us when he retires - 8
Finnan: Not his best day, but he has performed over years and one mistake doesn't change that - 6
O'Shea: Solid. No terrible errors, this time - 6
McShane: Dreadful. Naive on the peno. Looked lost otherwise. The next manager needs to be looking at the alternatives. - 4
Kilbane: Not bad considering still learning the position. did enough to keep the no. 3 shirt - 6.5
Miller: Didn't look up to much played wide. Taken off and rightly so. I stress though its not his position, and i don't blame him. - 5
Reid: I still have doubts over his fitness. Didn't stand out as poor or particularly good - 6
Carsley: Did his job and did it well. A typical Carsley performance - 7
McGeady: Our most threatening outlet over the 90 minutes - 7.5
Keane: Worked hard, great finish. I really don't understand the stick he is getting. Shouldn't be captain though - 7.5
Doyle: Good performance. Super finish. Has a good understanding with Hunt we ought to be exploiting more - 7.5

Subs
Hunt: Changed the game when he came on. Didn't stop running. created a goal with his first touch. Man of the match - 8
Potter: Not on long enough to rate

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Originally Posted by Cymro

I laugh at all the comments here about how poor we supposedly are because we don't have a lot of great individuals.

A quick look at Northern Ireland will tell you you don't need fantastic individuals to be a decent team. Also, we were missing players (Bellamy/Bale) and Davies, Collins and Gabbidon are Premiership regulars, as well as Koumas.

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Im not basing how poor ye are on the players that were available, though this has an effect. Im basing it on the performances in the campaign and Wales have been pretty awful apart from away to the Czechs and Slovaks. Granted for the most part we have been little better than you.

I think Shay was good but only the deflected header was a top drawer save. Neither of the Koumas shots would have beaten a half-decent keeper in my opinion.

Miller can't even stand out in mediocre company. I accept he was wide right but Ireland plays wide right too and is better. Givens was right tom pick Reid centrally in my opinion, Miller was simply filling space.

Despite the frustration I still think there's not much wrong that a good central midfielder like a fit & confident Steven Reid wouldn't sort out. We were decent upfront, decent out wide and ok at the back, bar individual lapses. Andy Reid is good on the ball but if he had a strong partner who demanded the ball and who could carry it with his head up I think the team would improve quite a bit. The most important functional position in the team is where we are desperately short.

Having watched the replays today of the goals it's clear to me Carsley should have tracked back with Koumas for their first goal. He starts to jog and then stops...... Poor defending for the second with McShane's lack of pace exposed.

As Stuttgart says we lack a central midfielder, a young Roy Keane would suit this team nicely. Let's hope S Reid starts getting game time at Blackburn, stays fit and is ready for the friendly against Brazil. A top quality centre back to partner Dunne is also required, no offence to O'Shea, McShane, O'Brien but they don't fill me with any confidence. Our defence looked 'suspect' all day long and were Bellamy fit we could have gone away with no points. Fair play to Wales, a lot of young lads plying their trade in the Championship/League 1 and they didn't bottle it.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Neither of the Koumas shots would have beaten a half-decent keeper in my opinion.

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Thank you, I had been going to say that.

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Originally Posted by backtowalsall

Finnan: Not his best day, but he has performed over years and one mistake doesn't change that - 6

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WTF have his performances over the years got to do with yesterday? He inexcusably turned his back on the cross for the first goal. For that alone he deserves no more than a 4, and because I hate to see such pussy behaviour I'd give him a 3. Fair enough he's been great over the past few years for Liverpool but I felt like punching him yesterday. Stephen Kelly used to get up to similar tomfoolery but he seems to have improved a lot in that regard for Birmingham this season. I can handle McShane being a bit headless at times but when someone doesn't try put their foot or body in the way of the ball I get uncharacteristically angry, and I don't like that feeling at all. It's ok now though I feel better having said that. :)

Put Jason Koumas into our side and then it'd be a different story. I honestly think that. An athlete who can play football.

Thank God Owen Garvan will have another year before the action starts again. Can anyone speed up Jamie McCarthy's ageing process?

McShane's promising start is a distant memory now I'm afraid. I'd have O'Brien and O'Shea well ahead of him right now.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Can anyone speed up Jamie McCarthy's ageing process?

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Best bet would be to get Barca to sign him, they might fill him with HGH a la Messi.

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Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

He inexcusably turned his back on the cross for the first goal.

For that alone he deserves no more than a 4, and because I hate to see such pussy behaviour I'd give him a 3.

I can handle McShane being a bit headless at times but when someone doesn't try put their foot or body in the way of the ball I get uncharacteristically angry, and I don't like that feeling at all. It's ok now though I feel better having said that. :)

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McShane jumped out of the way of the long range shot in the second half, turned his back on it. And it was a shot he ducked, not a cross.

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Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

McShane jumped out of the way of the long range shot in the second half, turned his back on it. And it was a shot he ducked, not a cross.

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Fair enough, I can't remember seeing that. Regardless, my point with Finnan stands, he was two feet away from the ball and instead of trying to block it he turned away. Whether his team mates were up to similar shenanigans or not hardly exonerates him. Remember one of the Wales lads (Robinson?) in the first half launched himself at a shot, getting hurt in the process, but it showed his desire and bravery. Are we a bit soft I wonder.

McGeady - Had a good first half but faded a little in the 2nd. Interestingly I thought he put in some fabulous balls (something he gets a lot of criticism for) that no one managed to get on the end of including an almost identical ball to that of Hunts which we scored from.

Hunt - Great impact with his first cross but afterwards I thought he was a bit of a headless chicken actually, miscontrolled a few balls. Dont get me wrong I love his energy and enthusiasm and Im sure he will be a great player for Ireland, Im just not sure what all this 'he is our saviour' is based on, he certainly has all the fans on his side, a really positive crowd reaction to him coming on and any time he touched the ball.

A Reid - I thought he was very poor, did little to diggest he is the player that we should be building our team around as some on here would have you believe. I knwo it was a nothing match and his recent performances have been good but not yesterday imo.

Where was McGeady for the first goal, a free header from a Welsh midfielder ?

That boy's got a lot to learn.

Given 8 - solid as always - thank god for him
Kilbane 6
O'Shea 7 - I actually thought he had some good possession
McShane 5 - over hyped and one very good game for us
Finnan 6
McGeady 9 - creative attacking, the Welsh defenders couldnt handle him
Reid 5 - hardly made a completed pass to an Irish player
Carsley 5 - see above - how the hell does this guy get a game for us?
Miller 4 - surely dropped for the next game
Doyle 7 - good but not great
Robbie 8 - busy busy busy

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Originally Posted by Desyf

Where was McGeady for the first goal, a free header from a Welsh midfielder ?

That boy's got a lot to learn.

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Can hardly blame McGeady exclusively for that. Finnan probably could have done a bit better stopping the cross and there were a number of Irish players in the penalty area none of whom got anywhere near Koumas.

Given - 7 - as always a couple of crucial saves
Finnan - 6 - at fault for the goal but otherwise ok
Kilbane - 7 - better than i thought at left back, but i hope he's not there when we play someone decent
O'Shea - 7 - had a good game, cant remember ever saying that before
McShane - 6 - was at fault for the goal, but i thought he was ok otherwise
McGeady - 6 great early on and then disappeared and came back into it near the end
Reid - 5 - didnt do anything of note
Carsley 7 - thought he was the best of our midfield and one of his better games fof us
Miller 5 - not involved
Keane - 6 took his goal but missed a couple of good chances
Doyle - 8 - looks or most effective striker now

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Originally Posted by Maroon 7

Can hardly blame McGeady exclusively for that. Finnan probably could have done a bit better stopping the cross and there were a number of Irish players in the penalty area none of whom got anywhere near Koumas.

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Midfielders running unopposed from deep positions should be picked up by those players around him.

Have a look at the goal and you will see McGeady standing watching Koumas move in to that space. It's a constant gripe of mine that a lot of goals from midfield could be stopped if players didn't switch off or if players weren't too stupid to see the danger.

The lad dummied Finnan extremely well and put a good cross over but still, Koumas should have been challenged. It was a nice header, but it was a free header so he could stick it where he wanted.

Given - 8 - A few smashing saves and could do nothing about the goals
Finnan - 6 - Skint for the goal but otherwise solid
Kilbane - 7 - Solid enough, positioning a bit dodge but I think he is our best option here, good athlete, strong in the air, can run the flank and good for feck all else!
O'Shea - 7 - Decent game
McShane - 3 - Poor game, a Championship player, right attitude but simply not an international player.
McGeady - 7 Had great moments but he comes in and out of games, we need consistency. Happy with him though, he has class.
Reid - 5 - Not involved
Carsley 7 - Thought he was very good, won the midfield battle, good touches out of him too.
Miller 3 - Did he even know he was playing?
Keane - 7 - Worked hard, good goal, good movement, but his finishing could have been better. Frustrating to watch at times.
Doyle - 8 - looks or most effective striker now

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Originally Posted by RiffRaff

Given - 7 - as always a couple of crucial saves
Finnan - 6 - at fault for the goal but otherwise ok
Kilbane - 7 - better than i thought at left back, but i hope he's not there when we play someone decent
O'Shea - 7 - had a good game, cant remember ever saying that before
McShane - 6 - was at fault for the goal, but i thought he was ok otherwise
McGeady - 6 great early on and then disappeared and came back into it near the end
Reid - 5 - didnt do anything of note
Carsley 7 - thought he was the best of our midfield and one of his better games fof us
Miller 5 - not involved
Keane - 6 took his goal but missed a couple of good chances
Doyle - 8 - looks or most effective striker now

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I know this is all about opinion, but unless I was at a different game I cannot understand how Given would only rate the same as O'Shea and how Robbie Keane would rate less than O'Shea? :confused:

I don't particularly like the guy or often agree with him but I think Daniel McDonnell's ratings and comments in the Indo today are about right. The one one I think he has wrong is Carsley who had a better game than to be rated as only a 5.

Shay Given - 7
THE Donegalman was called upon to make some crucial stops by denying Koumas twice before being unable to do anything about the Wigan man's penalty kick. Deserves extra credit for producing solid display in a game that he rushed himself back to fitness for.

Steve Finnan - 6
WAS poor in the build up to Wales' first goal by giving Ledley too much time to cross but made up for that with a number of important interceptions as the game progressed. Will hopefully stick around to play his part in the World Cup 2010 qualification.

Paul McShane - 4
It must be remembered that he is still learning despite his commanding personality suggesting otherwise. He found himself in difficult position due his own errors for the penalty. He needs to cut out the clumsiness that gets him into such situations.

John O'Shea - 5
WHEN he was younger they reckoned O'Shea would be a centre half eventually, but he has not developed that way. Capable of the odd howler, but while there were one or two dodgy moments during this game he was still a little bit more composed than McShane.

Kevin Kilbane - 5
STILL very much a makeshift left back rather than an accomplished one, despite playing there for Wigan. Can be blamed in part for the first goal although Koumas made his run from a central position. There's a desperate need to find a long-term option for this role.

Aiden McGeady - 6
CONTINUES to be something of an enigma. Defensive limitations are exposed far more at international level and the end product still seems to desert him. However, he created a good first half opening for Keane that the striker failed to anticipate.

Lee Carsley - 5
SPIRITED display from the Everton man but, along with Reid, failed to cope with the industry of Koumas whose roving role succeeded in stretching the Irish midfield. Welcome news, though, that he is sticking around for the next campaign.

Andy Reid - 5
REID was unable to impose himself in the manner that he did against Germany and the Czech Republic although he was afforded far less space than he enjoyed at Croke Park in particular. Passing was nowhere near as flawless either and he will have better days.

Liam Miller - 4
GIVEN his chance on the right side of midfield but did not exactly seize it. Struggled to make any real impact and chose the wrong option on several occasions where opportunities had presented themselves. Still has something to prove in the green jersey.

Kevin Doyle - 7
ANOTHER effective display by the Wexford man which was only let down by poor decision making on a handful of occasions. Once again, he popped up with another important goal and, with a precision pass, made the other for Keane.

Robbie Keane - 7
YOU have to wonder what Steve Staunton was thinking as Keane dinked in his delightful equaliser. Such calmness eluded him under the former boss. Intelligent play helped fashion the build-up to Doyle's strike as the captain turned in a strong performance.

Substitutions

Stephen Hunt (for Miller) - 7
He craves to establish himself in a starting role but continues to make such an impact as a substitute. Brought life to the game when it was beginning to flag but must produce a good 90 minute performance in next year's friendlies.

Darren Potter (for Reid)
not on long enough to rate

Given 8
Finnan 6
Kilbane 6
McShane 5
O'Shea 7
McGeady 7
Miller 5
Carsley 7
Reid 6
Doyle 7.5
Keane 8

Hunt 9

Given 6
Kilbane 6
O'Shea 5
McShane 4
Finnan 5
McGeady 7
Reid 6
Carsley 6
Miller 4
Doyle 7
Keane 6

HUNT 8

Let's be honest lads, if there were 4 or more 7+ performances we would have won by at least 2... Wales were completely understrength, they had no real home advantage with the lack of home support and didn't play well anyway.

Given 6 : Did what he's there to do
Kilbane 6 : Average.
O'Shea 6 : Solid but under no real threat
McShane 4 : Under no real threat but still no composure or positional sense.
Finnan 5 : Made a mistake and never really up'ed his game.
McGeady 7 : Lively and swung in a few nice crosses which we should have taken advantage of.
Reid 5 : Marked out of the game and looked happy enough to be so.
Carsley 7 : Solid, needed someone to play off him.
Miller 4 : Bad day out, sure your not in your right position but thats no excuse for lack of effort and passion.
Doyle 7ish : Decent game but drifted in and out.
Keane 6 : Better than recent form but far short of a top striker or Captains performance, lack of strikers instinct but worked hard to be fair.


Hunt 7: Sure he lost the ball a few times, but he scares the bejaysus out of defenders and makes things happen.... sometimes that's all you need, all heart!

I wouldn't have Shay at 8/10, more like a 7
-.75
He lost his concentration in the build up to the first, too busy shouting at other players to notice that the obvious backpass was coming his way and blindly hoofed it directly to 2 Welsh players.
-.25
Penalty
Sent the wrong way (again) for the Penalty, If he stayed at the roulette table betting on black or red, he'd be broke after a few days.

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Originally Posted by Junior

Hunt - Great impact with his first cross but afterwards I thought he was a bit of a headless chicken actually, miscontrolled a few balls. Dont get me wrong I love his energy and enthusiasm and Im sure he will be a great player for Ireland, Im just not sure what all this 'he is our saviour' is based on, he certainly has all the fans on his side, a really positive crowd reaction to him coming on and any time he touched the ball.

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Was just going to post that, actually. Don't know if he got in another decent ball after the first one. Decent player, but think Saturday was one of his poorer games in the grey. Worth no more than a 6.

Home fans - 4 - Terrible really, almost outnumbered! Would that ever happen here, no matter how bad we were? Vast tracts of empty seats (though i suppose both sides can be blamed for that) and no noise whatsoever, apart from the goals.

Away fans - 7 - Good noise generation from a compact group, who definitely created more support than the home support. Pity barely half the team acknowledged them (although those paramount in their accusations that the fans were to blame for the downfall Stan, a good man, did come over and clap).

On another note, the stadium has great acoustics. when wales scored, the celebrations of the 12,000 or so welsh fans was pretty noisy.

And I'm not sure if you saw it on telly, but when doyle scored, hunt turned to the crowd, arms outstretched, and lapped it up

Unfortunately people won't pay the Millenium Stadium prices (plus travel) to watch a team that's just barely scraped past San Marino play another team that just barely scraped past San Marino in what was basically a dead rubber, albeit a fairly local one and quite entertaining at the end of the day in my opinion.

The fans that did turn up weren't bad-they sung all the favourites like Men of Harlech, and the damn horns weren't as prevalent as usual, which is always a good thing!

If it had been a higher profile game, I'm sure we'd have had more like 50,000. The support is there, but they are mostly fairweathers and we only have a hardcore of about 15,000.

Id say Ireland would have at least 50,000 for any competitive game no matter what!

Well, your team has done a lot better than ours over the last two campaigns. That is inevitably a factor.

15,000 considering, isn't that bad for a hard core following but would be a lot better in the right stadium and silencing those hornblowers.