Fans losing heart with the players??

With the last group game on this Saturday a number of the Irish have pulled out ,with lets face crap excuses and fake injuries.
Andy O' Brien (for the 2nd game running)
Dunne
Foley
Harte
Douglas
Carr (retiring at 31)

After a pathetic campaign do you not think they owe us at least a half attempt to finish in a simi reasonable position in the group (whopping 3rd place if lucky) also the fact that it is a local celtic derby.

With Robbie Keane half assed displays (and his late late show rant) along with a lot more under performers what is going on ??

Steven Ireland ... need I say more.

Are these the "heroes" the young generation has to look to ?
I pity them as I grew up supporting real men who give all and there were f all early retirements !

O'Brien is having surgery and has a point to prove. Dunne always gives it all for Ireland. I'd be surprised if Foley's withdrawal is anything but genuine.

I partly accept the general point though and Andy Reid's comments in the press this morning p12ssed me off. We may still come 4th, 5th or 6th in this group FFS and we were out of it ages ago.

I'm glad Givens is voicing his disapproval. Much as I deride the U21s' results I think he speaks sense on this issue and oddly I like him more as senior manager than as U21 manager.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'm glad Givens is voicing his disapproval. Much as I deride the U21s' results I think he speaks sense on this issue and oddly I like him more as senior manager than as U21 manager.

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Jesus christ

dont give them ideas

Givens "musings' are laughable. He has been a disaster as u21 coach. He talks about ethics in football and yet continues to collect a pay packet for a job badly done. Why not show us he is serious about "ethics" in football and stand down?

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Givens "musings' are laughable. He has been a disaster as u21 coach. He talks about ethics in football and yet continues to collect a pay packet for a job badly done. Why not show us he is serious about "ethics" in football and stand down?

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the man's "ethics" involve pimping any LOI based u21's to his contacts in english football.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

the man's "ethics" involve pimping any LOI based u21's to his contacts in english football.

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I think of local based u21s only Doyle and O'Donovan have moved to Britain. And we all know that Givens wasn't involved there

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I think of local based u21s only Doyle and O'Donovan have moved to Britain. And we all know that Givens wasn't involved there

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His lack of success doesnt mean he doesnt regularly attempt it, dodge. from the horse's mouth.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I think of local based u21s only Doyle and O'Donovan have moved to Britain. And we all know that Givens wasn't involved there

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Ward too.

Fair point...

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Originally Posted by bwagner

With the last group game on this Saturday a number of the Irish have pulled out ,with lets face crap excuses and fake injuries.
Andy O' Brien (for the 2nd game running)
Dunne
Foley
Harte
Douglas
Carr (retiring at 31)

After a pathetic campaign do you not think they owe us at least a half attempt to finish in a simi reasonable position in the group (whopping 3rd place if lucky) also the fact that it is a local celtic derby.

With Robbie Keane half assed displays (and his late late show rant) along with a lot more under performers what is going on ??

Steven Ireland ... need I say more.

Are these the "heroes" the young generation has to look to ?
I pity them as I grew up supporting real men who give all and there were f all early retirements !

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I will sum all this up for you in 3 words:

DO THEY CARE?????

In my opinion there are a few who do.Dunne being one of them.I genuinely think he would stick his head in the way of an oncoming train for Ireland.Given does,Finnan does along with a few others.

There are a select few however who when the going gets tough simply take the easy option.The captain is one of these players.Lets be honest he is a great talent and there is no disputing that.However his attitude just doesnt always match his talent.When things are going for you it is easy to get stuck in.It is however when things are going against you that the true bravehearts come to the fore.When things are going badly real effort is needed and real leaders become obvious.

Other players simply are not committed.Andy O'Brien is one of these.Less said about S. Ireland the better.Kelly,O'Shea,Andy Reid simply dont convince me of their desire to play for their country.O'Shea's half arsed tackle in Slovakia demonstrates this.

A small country like Ireland needs everyone giving 110% to punch above its weight.The Irish team has always been greater than the sum of its individual parts.In recent times however this desire seems to have evaporated and we are being shown up for the poor team we are in many positions.

A new manager has to recapture that old team spirit if they are to be a success.I dont know how they will do that as I cant see a magic formula but pride in wearing the green jersey must return if we are to have a return to the glory days and qualification for major championships.

The rebuilding process starts on Saturday and any potential manager will be watching for a display of the right attitude as the first building block in a new era.

Hope I havent depressed too many with that rant.Now lets go to Cardiff and at least enjoy ourselves some way!

going pack to the original post i have to agree that the fans are completely disillusioned with the players at the moment. Stan must take some blame of course but the fact is that switzerland at home under kerr , san marino away under stan and cyprus at home were three pathetic gutless performances and we as fans dont ask for wins in every game but we do expect 200% effort.
Perhaps for reasons that some players are hiding , dont respect their manager, are saving their best efforts for club football ( in fairness i can see that they are employed by these clubs) or that they just treat the trip as a jolly but nonetheless the green jersey is being devalued. We could have a thread here to discuss which players i mean but the bottom line is this...
I would like the new manager to get his full squad and B team squad together and give them all the option of early retirement. No more phoning in your performance or even worse phoning in your absence for spurious reasons. He should make it clear we only want players who want to play for us and who are prepared to give all to the cause. You can talk about atmosphere at matches but one thing above all creates an atmosphere and that is a team who is doing their damndest to get a result be it putting 13 past san marino or gettign a lucky draw away to a footballing superpower.
I don't want the old days back , I want a new era and so do all Irish fans.

[QUOTE=btid1;815380]I will sum all this up for you in 3 words:

DO THEY CARE?????

Do they **** - maybe 2 -3 players but look at even some of Finnan displays (cyprus for a start)

A small country does not wash one bit with me anymore - 20 + players in the premiership with a descent support cast.

Look at the bums the northerners have and they have beaten Sweden, England,Spain and drew with the Danish and Swedes in the past 3 years

Before Charlton took over I and many other fans had began to question the attitude of the then team. Stapleton's waving into the camera while coming off the pitch in Switzerland in a dire 0-0 did not go down well. Brady cracking open Champagne in the team hotel after another away defeat. The situation seemed hopeless at the time. Chartlon took over and Stapleton and the team found a new lease of life. We still have some very good players with the right attitudes ie Dunne, Given, Hunt, McShane, Doyle. We just need a proper manager.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Before Charlton took over I and many other fans had began to question the attitude of the then team. Stapleton's waving into the camera while coming off the pitch in Switzerland in a dire 0-0 did not go down well. Brady cracking open Champagne in the team hotel after another away defeat. The situation seemed hopeless at the time. Chartlon took over and Stapleton and the team found a new lease of life. We still have some very good players with the right attitudes ie Dunne, Given, Hunt, McShane, Doyle. We just need a proper manager.

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the thing is it's such an important decision it shouldnt really be left to a shower like the FAI !!

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Originally Posted by bwagner

Do they **** - maybe 2 -3 players but look at even some of Finnan displays (cyprus for a start)

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You have to try and differentiate between playing badly and lacking effort.

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Originally Posted by bwagner

With the last group game on this Saturday a number of the Irish have pulled out ,with lets face crap excuses and fake injuries.

After a pathetic campaign do you not think they owe us at least a half attempt to finish in a simi reasonable position in the group (whopping 3rd place if lucky) also the fact that it is a local celtic derby.

With Robbie Keane half assed displays (and his late late show rant) along with a lot more under performers what is going on ??

Steven Ireland ... need I say more.

Are these the "heroes" the young generation has to look to ?
I pity them as I grew up supporting real men who give all and there were f all early retirements !

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Tbh, no one on either side gives a flying 4x about this game. Once you're out of the competition, games like this and the Cyprus one beforehand are meaningless. Even the fans don't give a damn, with the poor crowd expected. The game against Brazil in February is more important, what with a new boss in place, a (hopefully full strength) motivated squad, and a full house. As Ireland fans, we'll watch it of course, but honestly, we need this game on Saturday like a hole in the head.

So what if we finish 3rd, or even 6th in the group. We're still going to get a hard draw in the WC next week regardless.

Do you remember the days when there was not such thing as international retirement?

There was just retirement.

Imagine one of the Charlton era players saying he was retiring but just from Internationals. Charlton would have eaten him alive.

They go on about the demands of the professional game etc. What a load of me arse! Players nowadays are in far better conditioning than previous years. With expert diets and what not. Plus there isn't even as many teams in the top flight in England as there used to be. I firmly believe the main reason for international retirement is complete lack of interest.

Good riddance

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Originally Posted by Theskinloyal

Good riddance

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what he said.

To be honest, I reckon the players will perform better at the weekend.

No chance of qualifying and no manager. Its just like a friendly and we all know how good we are at friendlies and how ****e we are under pressure. Robbie Keane will probably score a hattrick an'all.

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Originally Posted by Torn-Ado

To be honest, I reckon the players will perform better at the weekend.

No chance of qualifying and no manager. Its just like a friendly and we all know how good we are at friendlies and how ****e we are under pressure. Robbie Keane will probably score a hattrick an'all.

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Hopefully not as the FAI will then stick Don Givens top of their World Class managers list and appoint him fulltime.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Fair point...

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and murphy...

[QUOTE=bwagner;815387]

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Originally Posted by btid1

I will sum all this up for you in 3 words:

DO THEY CARE?????

Do they **** - maybe 2 -3 players but look at even some of Finnan displays (cyprus for a start)

A small country does not wash one bit with me anymore - 20 + players in the premiership with a descent support cast.

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Its not as simple as them "not cariing" and I don't believe we'd be happy if our team gave 100% and still took a tonking. Most of the problems we have is down to the direction management has been giving and in this respect Givens has to be included in the blame game. Some footballers are smart, some are dumb. The most successful manager we had was successful purely because he wouldn't tolerate any dissention from his footballing plan. He marginalised one of our (at the time) greatest defenders over what he perceived as a lack of enthusiasm and in my opinion the next manager is going to have to do something similar, albeit maybe not so drastically.

Are the fans disillusioned? As the man from delmonte would say "Yes!" But I think it has more to do with the whole set-up, i.e. the performances, the manager, the strange selections, the press utterings by the management team, the appointment procedure, everything.
That has definitely been compounded by the stupid ill-advised recent comments by the players. Nobody expects a player to come out and say "well Stan wasn't up to much, I'm glad he's gone to be honest" but there's no reason to be saying what Reid and Hunt have been saying the past few days.
Particularily Hunt; he's barely got his foot in the door, and for all the gusto and bluster of his few sub appearances, he's actually done pretty little apart from his performance against Slovakia in Croker.

In saying all that, I don't believe it would take much to change the fans attitude. A couple of decent performances would raise spirits and obviously a new appointment should induce some sort of a feel-good aura back to the National team.

It seems we are down to 2 managers: Jewell or Houllier.
In terms of the National team, I think this is the most important selection of my time following the National team. Get it right and there is enought of a core group of young players to kick and develop. Get it wrong and it would be hard to maintain our current status (which isn't great anyway)

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

You have to try and differentiate between playing badly and lacking effort.

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Exactly Eirebhoy. So many players played badly that night, but I don't believe that any of it was down to lack of effort. Did anyone else find the way O'Brien and Kenny were treated subsequently pretty shabby? I know I did, Andy O'Brien has played very well for Ireland, he's had one poor performance (v Cyprus) when he shouldn't have been picked due to his club situation, and once performance (v Israel) where he played well but was vilified for being sent off, when in reality he did what everyone in the ground would have done - deck Dudu!
In relation to Kenny, I was disappointed the way Staunton dragged his private life into public glare when the media hadn't done so (they would have done) but I felt it was a cheap shot on behalf of the manager.

[QUOTE=Kingdom;815502]

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Originally Posted by bwagner

Its not as simple as them "not cariing" and I don't believe we'd be happy if our team gave 100% and still took a tonking.


It seems we are down to 2 managers: Jewell or Houllier.

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we wouldnt get any tonkings from anyone of our players gave 100% but more importantly we woulnt under perform against the poorer teams.

where is this houllier and jewell info coming from ? any links ? both good candidates anyway.

We need more players who are willing to die for the team, not cry to Pat Kenny (im looking at you Captain Keane) when things are tough...

I dont know if anyone read hunts article in the indo during the week...He is a refreshingly honest professional when he speaks, no bull****, and to boot you know he tries his hardest every time he plays for Ireland. Even this week he was saying how this Wales match is important to him. he wants to put in a good performance so he can oust duff out of the team or onto the other wing. Thats what we look for in every player who pulls on the green jersey, unfortunately the hunts/dunnes/givens/kilbanes are in the minority of late.

What we need is a no nonsense manager to come in and give those wasters a good kick up the ar$e.

Somebody like this for example.

[QUOTE=RogerMilla;815510]

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

we wouldnt get any tonkings from anyone of our players gave 100% but more importantly we woulnt under perform against the poorer teams.

where is this houllier and jewell info coming from ? any links ? both good candidates anyway.

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I disagree. Of course you can get a hiding while giving 100% ! You are on the nose about underperforming against the poorer nations. When we've been successful, it was done by winning (however marginal) our games against the weak countries whilst taking points off our rivals away from home and nicking the odd win agaisnt same at home.
Just look at the away records in the 94 and 02 qualifying campaigns. Beat the minnows with conviction away and took priceless points off our rivals too.

Kingdom why are you quoting and arguing with yourself? Are you Norman Bates?

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Kingdom why are you quoting and arguing with yourself? Are you Norman Bates?

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nah he has goosed up the quote , i actually said that.

alright kingdom we can still take a tonking while at 100% but it would take some team to do it , kind of like spain in the 3-1 game in landsdowne many years ago.

anyway bottom line is we are underperforming and its not the fans who need to change as we as fans punch far above our weight than most other countries fans ( france you fickle bastids!!!). Our players need to sort themselves out , Big time.

Well I think everyone is being a tab bit unfair on O'Brien. Yes he pulled out of Stauntons last game but i agree with him 100% on this. If it were me i would have told Staunton to **** off. He was made a scape goat 100% against Cyprus and the comments after the match from Staunton that Robson talked him into starting him ahead of McShane were a slap in the face to a guy who has always done well for us. I would give him the benefit of the doubt this time in the belief that he may actually be injured. Im sure Foley from Wolves would love to get a chance to play and show what he is worth so i would be fairly sure he is injured. For me the only player that i would really rely on to do his level best to be ready and able to play for Ireland is Given. he seems the only player that is willing to come back early from injury to helo us out.