Fran Gavin defends the decision to allow the D1 winners into the Setanta Cup playoff and says it should remain for next year.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...n-1209053.html
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Fran Gavin defends the decision to allow the D1 winners into the Setanta Cup playoff and says it should remain for next year.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...n-1209053.html
And I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Just a warnign for people about to post on this thread. DO NOT let it descend into another harps v Derry discussion. Loads of them about if you want to post there...
Division 1 clubs are already allowed into the League Cup so I don't see why they should be given two chances to qualify through this route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
I think it's a good idea as well. It makes the Fisrt Division a little bit more interesting and gives the promoted teeam a chance to inject some money into the coffers. No surprise that the teams complaining are those who may miss out on the Setanta by one place.
It should at least be given a year or two to see how it works. For a start the Division 1 winners still have to beat the League Cup winners so, arguably, if they manage to do that they are a better side than the League Cup winners and deserve their place.
If, however, we end up with a situation where the Div 1 champions lose all 6 games by a cricket score it'll need to be reviewed. In saying that, Pats managed to put 13 goals past Portadown and Dungannon in four games and Cork managed something similar.
Premier clubs had four opportunities to qualify (League x 2, FAI Cup and League Cup). First division clubs only ever had two opportunities (FAI Cup and League Cup) so I don't see a problem with giving them a third shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry The Saint
Surely they have to earn the extra shot by getting themselves promotted, it sounds like a terrible idea to me, rewarding mediocrity.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
You dont see this happening in any other country.Do Liverpool or Arsenal have to play off against the Championship winners for their Champions League place?
If you want to qualify for major tournaments win a trophy or be playing at the highest level.Anything other than that is making the competition a joke!!
As opposed to the league cup?Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
All comparisons to the European places in other countries are ridiculous too. Can't see how anyone would think having Harps or Cobh in the Setanta Cup ahead of Derry is a bad thing.
Well any hopes they had of rescuing the credibility of the competition is surely gone now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Why dont Premier teams just drop to the first div win that and get Setanta football that way.Im sure the likes of UCD and Bohs would win the first div handy enough but wont get Setanta cup football in their current position.
Rightly so. How is awarding the first division winners a crack at the league cup winners branded as awarding mediocrity but awarding it to possible 3rd or 4th place finishers not?Quote:
Originally Posted by btid1
I support a First division club and, while I can see the logic of trying to spread the wealth -what there is of it, I think this initiative lacks natural justice.
I can see at least as compelling a case for whoever tops a "fair play" league getting a bite of the cherry too.
But they already get rewarded with the chance* of uefa cupQuote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
Whats that got to do with it :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Isn't that the whole argument? I was using Derry as an example (being this years League Cup winners) and Harps/Cobh for similar reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
A) I thought per your warning above you didn't want it to descend into an argument about the two likely teams in the playoff; andQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
B) if the system is a farce, which it is because of the reasons stated above, then it doesn't matter who gets through.
Its just a case of Rico and sean connor being a pair of sour auld w@nkers thats all. I think it is brilliant to give the first division champions a fair chance in the setanta.
Why, because you have a good chance of getting into the playoff spot next season? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic
Fair enough. Using other teams "Can't see how anyone would think having Athlone in the Setanta Cup ahead of Bohs is a bad thing"Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
I disagree about it being a farce and have yet to see any credible reason why people think it is. Procedure clearly laid down before this season, and now before next season. Opens up Setanta Cup qualification for numerous clubs and at the very least provides extra income for the team that wins the first division. Team can win the league cup by playing 4 games (all at home possibly). I fail to see how the winners feel they're being cheated out of anythingQuote:
B) if the system is a farce, which it is because of the reasons stated above, then it doesn't matter who gets through.
They got their fair chance through the League Cup the first time.If I was a Derry fan and they lost the playoff I would feel very hard done by.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic
Still no answer from Dodge as to an example of another country in which this is done.Simple reason because it is not done anywhere else.
How apt the old adage is now - Only in Ireland!!!!
You have to remember that the First Division winners will be a Premier Division club by the time the Setanta Cup comes around. A First Division club could have won the League Cup.
Also, there is a good chance that a First Division club will be representing the eircom League in both the Setanta Cup and the UEFA Cup if Longford win the FAI Cup. So, if Longford are relegated and win the FAI Cup, do people then think that they shouldn't be in the Setanta or UEFA Cup.
Remember, the First Division Champions only get a shot at playing in the Setanta. They still have to get by the Premier club. It's up to Derry to prove that they deserve it more than Harps or Cobh. If Harps or Cobh beat Derry, then they deserve to be in the Setanta. Same way as if Longford beat Cork, they deserve to be in the both cups next season.
The Setanta Cup only applies to one other country!? Have you seen the Dutch european places play offs? Do you think out little thing compares to their monstrosity? The only country that admits the league cup winners into europe is England. Are they wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by btid1
Why do we have to copy other leagues?
In all fairness- not too many countries have an equivalent to the Setanta Cup.
My feeling is that the current setup adds interest to the first division and can help launch a new club towards competitive status in the premier for the following season. This will be even more important when the ten team league returns. If the league cup winners lose their place it'll be because they can't beat the first division champions- so slap it right up them.
I think FAI are trying to give the teams in North a chance to do well if there was a first division in the competition, they are hoping that Derry Lose and the winner of D1 goes through to give the Northern Teams a chance.
Also, what if Derry and Bohs were already in the Setanta Cup via different ways, would the first division team go in automatically ?
What other countries provides a competition like the Setanta Cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by btid1
I think in that case the 3rd placed team in the league would play the D1 winners in the playoff.
What if the First Division winners also win the League Cup?
But what if they're in the cup final. :eek: :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
i think its a very good idea sure look at shamrock rovers they would have had a good crack at it this year of they were in it, i dont see how a first divison team wouls make the competition worse, fair enought a prem team would be better prepared fro a good assault on it, but the league cup alone shouldnt give entry, one cup is enough for one league, never understood the second cup competition anyways, if longford win the FAI cup a first division team could possibly be in it anyway, instead of the promoted first divsion club, if we finnish 9 point clear of dundalk we should go up due to finnishing so far ahead of them and they didnt beat us at all this year, but yet we still must play them even though we proved were better than them,
some people think its unfair some dont, personal opinions
There's a very obvious reason why Premier Division teams have more chances...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stato
Are you actually comparing winning the First Division to coming 3rd/4th in the Premier? That's one of the most ridiculous comments I've read in a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Derry have proved it by winning the League Cup, which is more difficult than winning the First Division.Quote:
Originally Posted by harps1954
If Longford win the cup then they will deserve Setanta football no matter what league they are in because they won the cup!Quote:
Originally Posted by harps1954
They do deserve it more because they won something!Quote:
Originally Posted by harps1954
Why dont we just abandon the idea of having two leagues then and just put them all into one because there seems to be no reward for being in the Premier just huge costs!!
harps1954,
Royal League for Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland.
Baltic League for Teams from Latvia and Estonia.
There is also another one, For countries that used to be part of the Soviet Union
No, I was replying to the idea that winning the first is mediocre but finishing 4th in premier isn't. Do you think finishing fourth in premier is more than mediocre? Both are mediocre "achievements"Quote:
Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge
Both teams will have won something :pQuote:
Originally Posted by btid1
The Finns don't compete in the Royal League - and the Norwegians have just pulled out of the whole thing - I wouldn't expect it to go ahead this winter - as it's been a farce of a competition so far (hardly anyone went to watch the games)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoss
The CIS Cup is the one for the former Soviet States
It's good for us. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Setanta Cup in 3 seasons time!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Réiteoir
Hard for any of the Premier teams to win the prize Harps/Cobh will win but both could have won the league cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Would you be happy with a rule that says Bohs are in the tournament every season no matter what? Would that keep you happy?Quote:
Originally Posted by btid1
Give the idea a chance before you tear it apart.
Eh, no, that's the St Pats rule. They can't open it up to just anyone.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
But why all the complaints NOW? Why wasn't this flagged before any club signed up to the new league and changed then? Why wasn't Rico or Connor complaining about this a year ago when they knew it was coming? It's a bit like Dundalk last year - they complained after the event, even though they had signed up to something. Or is it a case that club's just signed up to the new FAI run league without bothering to check what they signed up for?
Clubs knew long before the start of the season what they were signing up for and that winning the League Cup didn't give automatic qualification into the Setanta Cup. I still don't know what Rico and Connor are complaining about. They haven't won the League Cup anyhow, so it doesn't involve them. Even if there was no play-off with the First Division champions, Derry would still have qualified for the Setanta Cup by winning the league cup and Bohs and Cork in 3rd and 4th place would still have had to be content with missing out.
I'd love to see Longford win the FAI Cup now, just to sicken Rico futher.