What makes a fan, a fan?

just doing a feature for the end of the year and i didn't know where to post this so i thought i'd stick it in here. was in fraziers in dublin last night watching celtic v mllan and i asked someone how many there were real celtic fans. the response was half. so it got me wondering, what is the definition of a fan?? i consider myself a cork city fan since seeing them on rte in 1992, they were playing bohs, i was eight. I've gone to a few games but none in the past three years because of college and work but i've bought the jerseys and post on here. not too much cause i always get ridiculed one way or another. so would i be considered a real fan or a barstooler? like wise i consider myself a Man U fan as well but i've only been to old trafford twice neither when a match was on... am i less of a fan cause i'm not the terraces regularly? what about those who support epl or spl teams? i was asked by an american last night why Irish people support scottish teams and not there own....i couldn't give him an honest answer. he thought it was ridiculous as he enquired about "the play-off" game on the tv. My question to all of you here is what makes you more of a supporter than anyone else? What defines a real supporter from a barstool fan?

The ability to keep you cool on warm Summer days is a must IMO

People will give you various definitions, but there's a smooth continuum from the guy who claims to be a Man Utd fan but can't name more than three of their players all the way to Mad Tom.

I think most eL fans have a definition of a 'real fan' as someone who attends live games at least as much as themselves.

This was done before ages ago but, for me:

I'm an Athlone Town fan in that:
- I'm a season ticket holder and go to all home games.
- I go to as many away games as I can get to.
- I buy pretty much every bit of merchandise they bring out.
- In the past I've helped with fund raisers, other promotion activities
and supporters clubs.
- I support all the clubs fundraisers that I'm financially able to.

I follow West Ham and Celtic in that:
- I look out for their results whenever I think of it.
- I buy the occasional jersey or merchandise.
- I've been to a few games over the years.
- Occasionally watch them when they are on tv, but I dont like watching
games on tv in general so I dont make a point of chatching them when they
are on. I find it very hard to watch games on tv cos I prefer the live game.

I'd never be bothered getting into the "Im a better fan than you ..." lark.

Very dificult, if not impossible to define.

Is the Japanese guy who watches every United match on TV, but has never been to Old Trafford in his life a worse fan than the guy in the Stretford End? Is the single parent in Salford who has never been because of the price and can't afford Sky a worse fan than the Norwegian or Irish businessman who has a season ticket and makes 15 games a season?

And is the guy who follows his local club a better fan than the Essex Man U fan? What if his local club is Man U. Is the guy behind the goal who sings all the songs better than the guy by the half way line in the suit seats who happens to like the taste of prawn sandwiches??

Football fans go to football matches.

people who like football watch it on tv.


kdjac

Agree.

No problems people TV- or internet-supporting a team (do it myself with a few clubs), but I do have a problem when people who solely follow football that way get uppity when it's suggested they're not as big a fan as someone who's down in Belfield Park every other week.

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Originally Posted by kdjaC

Football fans go to football matches.

people who like football watch it on tv.

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sure, that and a pair of testacles


now how many people can say that their posts transcend not just threads, but actual forums?*

And there's a prize for the first person who guesses just what the hell it is I'm talking about :p

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Originally Posted by backtowalsall

Very dificult, if not impossible to define.

Is the Japanese guy who watches every United match on TV, but has never been to Old Trafford in his life a worse fan than the guy in the Stretford End? Is the single parent in Salford who has never been because of the price and can't afford Sky a worse fan than the Norwegian or Irish businessman who has a season ticket and makes 15 games a season?

And is the guy who follows his local club a better fan than the Essex Man U fan? What if his local club is Man U. Is the guy behind the goal who sings all the songs better than the guy by the half way line in the suit seats who happens to like the taste of prawn sandwiches??

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Yes, no (because it's those untc's that have priced him out), yes, no (it's still his local club, part of supporting is the identity which includes where they're from it's Manchester United or Glasgow Celtic); yes (supporting involves singing imo).

People who immerse themselves in football. People who love to watch football, no matter who's playing, no matter what "standard". They are real footballl fans in my book.

Club fans, imo, are people who will ALWAYS support their team, no matter what's going on on or off the pitch.

i dont consider people who travele to the UK in droves and support British teams true fans of the game, when they completely ignore thier own local teams.................for me thats irrrational

i remember there was a tv show on ITV years ago...........showing football fanatics, etc..................and they had this moron from ireland who travelled every week to see some conference team or DIV 3 who he had no connection with at all..........yeah sure he is committed, and he sings and buys the merchandise..................but isnt that just a sign of madness

Wasn't that Exeter, I think?

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

i dont consider people who travele to the UK in droves and support British teams true fans of the game, when they completely ignore thier own local teams.................for me thats irrrational

i remember there was a tv show on ITV years ago...........showing football fanatics, etc..................and they had this moron from ireland who travelled every week to see some conference team or DIV 3 who he had no connection with at all..........yeah sure he is committed, and he sings and buys the merchandise..................but isnt that just a sign of madness

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Completely agree. That was a clown from Waterford who has remortgaged his house twice to "support" exeter. The mind boggles. Why doesnt he go to the RSC ffs?

Real fans support clubs in their own city or county not in another country.

KOH

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Completely agree. That was a clown from Waterford who has remortgaged his house twice to "support" exeter. The mind boggles.

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And claimed he did it "as it was as far away from the Premiership" as he could think...

If you don't go to games at every available oppurtunity, you're not a fan IMO. It should really be every game but work and bereavements are allowed. Free drinks in work is not an acceptable excuse. Nor is price of flights or ferry.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

If you don't go to games at every available oppurtunity, you're not a fan IMO. It should really be every game but work and bereavements are allowed............Nor is price of flights or ferry.

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By that logic Dodge, I'm not a real fan.

I',m sorry but I can't agree with it. Yes, you should get to as many games as physically possible but I also want to have a life outside football.

For instance, I go to every single Bray home game but I rarely travel because I like to go out on the weekends and spend my money on that. Does this make me less of a fan?

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Originally Posted by superfrank

By that logic Dodge, I'm not a real fan.

I',m sorry but I can't agree with it. Yes, you should get to as many games as physically possible but I also want to have a life outside football.

For instance, I go to every single Bray home game but I rarely travel because I like to go out on the weekends and spend my money on that. Does this make me less of a fan?

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Less than someone who travels to away matches. Yes

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Originally Posted by Dodge

If you don't go to games at every available oppurtunity, you're not a fan IMO. It should really be every game but work and bereavements are allowed. Free drinks in work is not an acceptable excuse. Nor is price of flights or ferry.

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And I have a friend who bought food for his starving children rather than buy a ticket............the lousy b@stard.

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Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever

Less than someone who travels to away matches. Yes

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I disagree. I love football but, jesus, you need a life outside of it as well.

Is traipsing up and down the country every second weekend instead of going out with your friends a better thing?

Hibs answered for me.

If you can think of things you want to do apart from watch your team, then you're not that big a fan IMO

We all have partners, other frineds, other interests but its only one maybe two nights week I spent going to Pats games.

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Originally Posted by superfrank

Is traipsing up and down the country every second weekend instead of going out with your friends a better thing?

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Going to away games is my favourite part of following Pats

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Originally Posted by superfrank

I disagree. I love football but, jesus, you need a life outside of it as well.

Is traipsing up and down the country every second weekend instead of going out with your friends a better thing?

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Are your friends only available every match night that Bray are away from home?

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Originally Posted by osarusan

And I have a friend who bought food for his starving children rather than buy a ticket............the lousy b@stard.

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I didn't question anybody's charachter, only their devotion to their team.

Does anybody really care what category of fan they're in?????

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Originally Posted by Docboy

Does anybody really care what category of fan they're in?????

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Oh, no. They just tend to insist that their category is above the cut-off for a 'real fan'.

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Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever

Are your friends only available every match night that Bray are away from home?

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I usually go out on a Friday or Saturday night, the same night Bray may be playing away from home.

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Originally Posted by superfrank

I usually go out on a Friday or Saturday night, the same night Bray may be playing away from home.

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So if they're playing on the Friday go out on a Saturday. If they're playing on a Saturday, go out on a...

Being a fan is about the emotional investment, and therefore, by definition, cannot be measured or judged by anybody other than the protagonist.

I am UCD and West Ham - I go to UCD home and away games regularly - west Ham twice a season approx - but the thing that makes me a fan is the emotional investment - the worry watching ceefax, not just watching ceefax but the worry watching it, the sheer joy when we beat a big side.

That joy is never artificial - when Man U beat fariview Celtic 5 - 0, there are non fans who don't get it and there are also real Man U fans who do - it is all about the emotional investment.

Look in the mirror - you know who you are...........and who you are not !

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Originally Posted by John83

They just tend to insist that their category is above the cut-off for a 'real fan'.

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Very true.

But I think there is a mistaken idea on the part of some posters that being a better fan makes you a better person.

Given the choice between attending a family member's birthday, or a game, I'd choose the party. Some fans would choose the game.

Given the choice between watching my child play in a football match, or watching my club team, I'd choose the former. Some fans would choose the latter.

Given the choice between a 10 hour round trip to watch my team, or just not going, I'd stay home about 50-75% of the time. Some fans would go EVERY time.

If people who do the opposite from me in the above cases argue that they are more devoted fans, then it is hard for me to argue back. Do they care more about the team??? They might.

But I'm not sure I want to be so much of a fan as the above cases (and I've tried to come up with examples which make people look "obsessed", or just losers). Some fans are willing to go to greater lengths than others.

What I do know is...when my team wins, I feel truly happy. When they lose, I feel truly saddened. Living in Japan, one of the things that truly bothers me is that I can't watch them on a regular basis, or at all. I'm sure that 10-12 years of live home games, and a decent number of away games has created these emotions. I'm happy considering myself a real fan. Others may disagree. So be it.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Living in Japan, one of the things that truly bothers me is that I can't watch them on a regular basis, or at all.

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You heard Dodge, price of flight is no excuse.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

So if they're playing on the Friday go out on a Saturday. If they're playing on a Saturday, go out on a...

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Maybe not all superfrank's friends are into Bray/EL games, maybe they want to do other things perhaps...:eek:

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Originally Posted by Dodge

So if they're playing on the Friday go out on a Saturday. If they're playing on a Saturday, go out on a...

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Or I could just save my money (I am a full-time student after all) for the thing that I'll enjoy more, which in this case is going out.

If long trips around the country on crowded buses to see football games doesn't thrill me then I'm not a 'proper' fan. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by superfrank

If long trips around the country on crowded buses to see football games doesn't thrill me then I'm not a 'proper' fan. :rolleyes:

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Quite baffled how this wouldn't thrill (or some less dramatic word) you. Agree with Dodge; nothing like a trip to Derry or Longford or Salthill. And you can go on an away trip and go out with your mates.

Bottom line I think is that a lot of people don't accept that there's different levels of fans. So yes, the person who goes to every single game is a bigger fan than someone who goes to only home games. Whether that makes them sad, less of a person or whatever is another topic.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

So yes, the person who goes to every single game is a bigger fan than someone who goes to only home games. Whether that makes them sad, less of a person or whatever is another topic.

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I'd go with they're more commited to the cause which would make them a better fan, though I find the "someone who makes away trips is better" debate a tad simplistic and I'm one who loves to simplify.

Like you said, everyone has different ideas about fans and there's no rules set in stone.

Personally, as long as you have an active interest in football, you're a fan in my books.

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Originally Posted by superfrank

Personally, as long as you have an active interest in football, you're a fan in my books.

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Fine, but if you only go to home games you're a part timer in my books. I'm sure you're worried...

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Originally Posted by osarusan

But I think there is a mistaken idea on the part of some posters that being a better fan makes you a better person.

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I'm not sure thats true tbh. I certainly don't think like that. I mean I do think I'm better than most buts its not all down to Pats :p

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Fine, but if you only go to home games you're a part timer in my books. I'm sure you're worried...

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My sentiments exactly. :D

Good debate.

How about (like superfrank) you are relatively skint? I was unable to afford to go to all matches until this year (still struggle). I'm not that long out of college. Was I only a 'barstooler' or a 'part-timer' before the newfound wages started going on match tickets and travel? (technically I know I was but in essence?) Are you only a true supporter when you are middle aged, settled, have disposable income and the missus has given up on convincing you to miss the game and stay in with her and the kids?


[QUOTE=osarusan;786545]Very true.

But I think there is a mistaken idea on the part of some posters that being a better fan makes you a better person.

Given the choice between attending a family member's birthday, or a game, I'd choose the party. Some fans would choose the game. [QUOTE=osarusan;786545]

Recently I had to miss a season book match after unholy uproar from the missus and attend her uncle in laws 60th over 160 miles away! i had to drive her family there too. As i sat down in their gaff approaching 3pm all I could think of was getting off the bus, going up the steps, greeting the lads who sit around me etc etc. I really wanted to be at the game!
The nest wednesday I stomped off on a freezing night to a dismal CIS cup game in Dundee, am I back in the real fan brigade?

[QUOTE=Bottle of Tonic;787318]Good debate.

How about (like superfrank) you are relatively skint? I was unable to afford to go to all matches until this year (still struggle). I'm not that long out of college. Was I only a 'barstooler' or a 'part-timer' before the newfound wages started going on match tickets and travel? (technically I know I was but in essence?) Are you only a true supporter when you are middle aged, settled, have disposable income and the missus has given up on convincing you to miss the game and stay in with her and the kids?


[QUOTE=osarusan;786545]Very true.

But I think there is a mistaken idea on the part of some posters that being a better fan makes you a better person.

Given the choice between attending a family member's birthday, or a game, I'd choose the party. Some fans would choose the game.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Recently I had to miss a season book match after unholy uproar from the missus and attend her uncle in laws 60th over 160 miles away! i had to drive her family there too. As i sat down in their gaff approaching 3pm all I could think of was getting off the bus, going up the steps, greeting the lads who sit around me etc etc. I really wanted to be at the game!
The nest wednesday I stomped off on a freezing night to a dismal CIS cup game in Dundee, am I back in the real fan brigade?

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NO !! Fan - dom is only partially evidenced by physical or financial commitment - it is not a contest to see who can spend the most money or take the most time off work - it is primarily about the emotional investment one makes. Impossible to measure but obvious when you have it. Sweaty palms, walking around the house like a madman becase your game has not been udpated on sky / radio for 10 minutes etc etc etc

I always try to get involved in football no matter where i am

when i was in asia, i set up a few football teams with locals, set up a few games, had good fun
in wales i went to a few Welsh league games, etc
and when i have a chance i hope to build on my coaching badges, and get involved again with my local team (after christmas hopefully)
(arent i great:D)

Dont always have to go to the "top" games to enjoy the benefit of the beautiful game...............................wonder how many at todays game in croke park have a deep love and understanding of the game (and thats just the FAI!!!)

Thats nothing got to do with being a fan though. You know from the word fanatic...

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

I always try to get involved in football no matter where i am

when i was in asia, i set up a few football teams with locals, set up a few games, had good fun
in wales i went to a few Welsh league games, etc
and when i have a chance i hope to build on my coaching badges, and get involved again with my local team (after christmas hopefully)
(arent i great:D)

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I'd say that makes you a fan of the game itself (obviously a good thing too), rather than a fan of a specific team.