the former lazio great has taken the reigns at Manchester City less than a year after leaving the England post- the less said about that the better. will he flop or restore any honour to his name?
personally i tip city for the drop this year.
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the former lazio great has taken the reigns at Manchester City less than a year after leaving the England post- the less said about that the better. will he flop or restore any honour to his name?
personally i tip city for the drop this year.
Makes you wonder how thick some people are
Might try for that second FAI coaching badge, maybe I could manage someday, if someone like Sven can, i def can!!:(
hell, if sven can manage england, surely some of us can take over brazil or france or someone.
Eriksson's only failure was that he didn't win anything with England. Let's see how well McClaren does now. The team qualified for every tournament and made the quarter finals on every attempt. If people didn't buy into how good the English media make England out to be they'd see he wasn't as abd as people make him out to be.
Two things went against him when he was English manager: The media building up the team to insane extent (I remember John Desborough actually planning England's 2006 trip to the final on Sky News when the groups were drawn) and the fact that he wasn't English.
Eriksson's had a very good club career. He had a very strong team at Sampdoria that were unlucky not to better and a similar thing happened at Lazio.
He is a good manager. The English media just never gave him a chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
do you not look at much football???
World cups are a doddle!
Agree with what superfrank said. Eriksson proved before he is a quality manager. He has money to spend at City so he can add to the few quality players there at the moment. They'll be high bottom half at worst.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge
Quality? ah jeez guys take a reality check
He did nothing with England, to get to finals and then do nothing isnt good enough for England. You can always be guaranteed that England will appoint a rubbish manager, but could you imagine if they had a Scholari etc, they might actually win something
What has Sven won of note? really, any CL titles?
I guess this coming season will finally put the cat amongst the pigeons
Football is not rocket science..............it can be a simple game
This just about sums up what I said in my earlier post. Are England really as good as the English media would have us believe?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Bobby Robson has been one of the best managers for years now and he took England to the 4th in the world. Unless the WC goes back to England I don't think they'll have a good chance at winning it. The players aren't good enough and whatever manager that takes the job will struggle for support with the media there. I'm sure this is the case in all countries, as it is here, but it seems to happen to an insane extent in England.
Yes I do. It's because I watch lots of different matches, etc. that I knew Eriksson was a good manager before he took over at England.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Is the Serie A good enough for you?:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Sven was a good manager in his day. He wasn't good at England though, not in my opinion anyway.
It wasn't so much his record which was poor, three quarter-finals is reasonable enough, but some of his decisions were absolutely baffling, such as taking Theo Walcott to the World Cup and then not playing him. Also his tactics never really worked out and he struggled to find a successful plan B when his plan A didn't work. Things like putting Beckham in the DM role to try and play 40-yard passes were never going to work against top class defences.
Whilst I agree that the English media (and players!) were guilty of ridiculous over-hyping of their squad, I also think a better manager would have achieved more over three campaigns or at least nurtured a side that played better football.
That said, McClaren his replacement has hardly covered himself in glory so the jury is ultimately out. I am a bit skeptical as to how he will fare in the Premiership too. And with the Thai bloke Shinawatra as their owner I feel Man City are taking a huge gamble. It might pay off-or they could be another Leeds.
Bobby Robson lost the dressing room during Italia 1990, it was the players that took over
England with the squad they have should have done much better
Portugal that knocked them out were only a one mam team (Figo), and were rubbish really
Anyway there really is a simple answer to this.............the coming season, then we will have a good idea of how great Sven is:rolleyes:
Forget about Svens England results. He wasn't a great manager for Lazio either.
Yes he was successful but he also put the club in millions upon millions of debt. He destroyed them in the end.
Superfrank is spot on here. SGE was a very good club manager (that's how he got the job in the first place) people (England fans especially) forget how crap England were when he took over, I remember Howard Wilkinson (Then the FA Technical Director) saying England shold forget the Japan world cup and concentrate on Euro 2004.... Erikson got them to the last 8 of a world cup the FA admitetd they had given up on qualifying for!!
He did make mistakes and his squad selection for the last world cup, Walcott & 2 unfit strikers was a shambles but in general England achieved 3 top 8 finishes in major championships which is about right for the squad they have. Once you get to knock-out stages luck plays a part, Ronaldinhos goal in 2002 was a fluke, twice losing in penalty shoot outs....
I still think he will struggle at City unless he has a lot of cash to spend because their squad is paper thin.
England has a good squad and lesser squads have done better.
Greece for example in the last Euros.
Lets look at the England team
Robinson - Good keeper, but not exceptional
RB- Gary Neville - As good a RB as your gonna get
LB - Cole - Personally i think he is over rated, but he is reckoned to be the best in the Premiership..
CB - Rio Ferdinand - World Class defender
CB - John Terry - World Class Defender
RM - David Beckham - World Class RM
LM - Joe Cole - Not world class in this position, but still very good)
CM - Gerrard - World Class
CM - Lampard - Supposidly world class, but I disagree
ST - Rooney - World class and a great all-round player
ST - Owen - World Class if kept fit.
Then theirs the following players as well
Crouch - Good player, but no world beater
Jamie Carragher - Great player
Owen Hargreaves - Greater player
Carrick - Good player(no world beater)
Andy Johnston - Good player
Aaron Lennon - Good player, potential to be world class
Wright Phillips - Good player
Darren Bent - Good player
Downey - Good player(will never be world class)
Wayne Bridge - Another good player.
My point is England have their fair share of world class players. They have a squad full of good players. Their isn't a bad player that plays for them.
If a manager cannot get a squad of that calibre and do better than quarter finals in 3 attempts, then that is down to the poor coaching on Svens part.
Incidently my England team would be(if everyone is fit)
GK David James(does have the odd howler but I think he is more capable than Robinson)
RB - Neville, good defender and great going forward
LB - Cole - Good going forward
CB - Terry - Great defender and true world class
CB - Ferdinand - Great defender and has a touch of class when on the ball.
RM - Beckham - The best passer of the ball in the world and has a great worth ethic
LM - Joe Cole, very good player and can win you a game
AM - Gerrard - The best midfielder available to England.
DM - Hargreaves - Great tackler, good passer, good speed, runs all day, breaks up play well and can beat a man when going forward.
FW - Rooney - has good control and all round play
ST - Owen, our most deadliest finisher and can score goals for fun if given the opportunities.
To clear up the Rooney and Owen roles. Rooney would play just in front of the midfield but behind Owen so to link up between the midfield to the strike force.
Their is no reason that team could go on to Win the European championships. The only thing stoppign them is poor tactics and poor preperation.
Firstly, we're back to "World Class" deffinitions here but I would say if you had to pick a world cup squad (ie. 23 players) from any players in the world who would be in the squad or very close.
Personally I think there are 2 possible world class players in the England squad, Rooney & Gerrard apart from them there are a lot of decent players but there is much more hype & hot air than actual ability.
Robinson is barely international standard, in the premiership he is probably 7th or 8th in the standings.
Terry is a battler, no pace & not a great reader of the game, Chelsea miss Carvalaho much more when he is out. Rio Ferdinand switches off so often it's hard to know when he's actually "on", Cole is the most over-rated player in the league, the lack of left sided players have meant he has basically become much more valuable than his ability would normally allow. Gary Neville is a solid dependable right back, I can think of half a dozen in the world who would be ahead of him and a dozen more at least as good, including our very own Steve Finnan.
In midfield Fat Fwank is second only to Cole in being overrated, at Chelsea the whole team is set up around his one skill, arriving late in the box getting on the end of crosses, to be honest Scholes was and still is better at this and if he wasn't in his 30's with one eye on retirement he'd be ahead of Lampard in the England set up.
Gerrard as I mentioned is top top class, although he is still more energy than ability I'd have him as a proper leader in midfield. Lennon is quick, but got found out a lot in the EPL this season, certainly nowhere near the standard required for world class, Ronaldo & Messi are in a different league to anything England have, Hargreaves, Carrick, very tidy players but how many top international sides would they get in the midfield of, Brazil? Argentina? Italy?
Beckham has never been even close to world class, he is a great crosser of the ball and takes a good set piece, he can't beat players for pace, he isn't a tricky winger, his distrobution is average at best (apart from his crossing) he's very honest and always gives 100% but so do most of the guys in my sunday league side.
Up front England are woefully short, Rooney yes on form on fire makes things happen from nothing, a rare breed. Apart from him Owen is shot, injury prone and considering his whole game was based on pace I would be amazed if he's ever anymore than 70% the player he once was, apart from him Crouch, Defoe, Bent, Johnson...... all decent players but against top class defenders like Canavaro & Nesta they would be found wanting.
SGE was not perfect but having to deal with unrealistic expectations based on the hype generated by Sky was the biggest obstacle.
Incidentally do you think any England manager would have been allowed play football the way Greece did?
:ball:I have to say, their isn't much their I agree with. So instead of me debating the bits I disagree with, I will tell you what I do agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
1) Robinson is a decent keeper but not a great keeper, I definately agree with you, barely international standard. James is a better option IMO
2)Ashly Cole is over-rated
3)Lennon, isn't world class, I do agree, but I think he has the potential to be.
I don't know if you picked up on my wording in a previous post when I said "The best midfielder available to England". Which refered to IMO Scholes who is the best English midfielder.
The rest I have to be honest, I disagree with you, but then that's football for you.
:ball:
T'would be a dull world if we all agreed :D
It would be a very easy world if everyone would agree with me because I'm always right:cool::DQuote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
Damn Steve you got there before me..........I as going to mention Greece, proof that it doesnt take a lot to go far in international football
By the way, Im only going on what I saw for myself, that England with a decent squad, did under achieve constantly with Sven
ye guys are going on about his club titles, etc, fair enough
but im waiting for ye then to tell me why he was so good................training skills, tactical genius, dressing room banter? ..............what were his skills? cause ye are only going on what you read, not what you saw!
by the way.................Real Madrid are after getting a cracking manager today!!
How do you know??? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
I've watch Serie A for many years and back when Eriksson was coach at Sampdoria in the mid 90's, he put together a very strong team at an unfashionable club. They played proper attacking football and any outsider would think they over-achieved. After these initial brushes with relative sucess (high table finishes, Coppa Italia in '94), he was "promoted" to a top club in '97, Lazio.
Tere he brought in the players that had helped him so much at Sampdoria. Veron, Mihajlovic, Mancini. By signing Mancini he annoyed a lot of Lazio fans as Mancini, 33 at the time, was considered too old. Yet Mancini was a good signing. He was bankrolled at Lazio but he still bought players that did the job. He won 2 Coppa Italias ('98 & 2000), the Cup Winner's Cup ('99) and Serie A (2000) at Lazio.
That is what I know of his managerial career before England and that is why he got the England job. As you know in international football you're stuck with what you've got, Eriksson's skills seem to be getting players in that he knows will do the job. He's clearly more suited to club management. So don't judge him before he's even managed one game at English club level.
[quote=bennocelt;720072]
Portugal that knocked them out were only a one mam team (Figo), and were rubbish really
we seem to be forgetting the current english young player of the year and player of the year = C. Ronaldo. he did play a part in knocking england out of the Euro 04. and then theres Ricardo in goal. he practically won the penalty shootout for portugal.
and on to some of Steve Bruce's player examinations:
rooney- great player, but always looks like he just ate two christmas dinners
rio ferdinand- he only looks world class when he has vidic or terry to protect him. when vidic was injured he fell apart quite often
david beckham- has a good cross and FK, but he has no mind for the game as we seen in englands last matches. he spends very little time in his position when all they want of him is a quality cross for crouch, instead he takes up an area in frnt of the back four where he isnt needed.
joe cole- i dont know how hes playing with chelsea or england, lennon is a much better player.
paul robinson- perhaps the dodgiest keeper in the EPL. after David James' season he clearly should be back in goal.
Greece's win was all down to that legend in goal whose name i can never pronoune or remember. plus they had stelios- good player. and karagounis.
Sorry Portugal were a one man team, without Figo they wouldnt have got anywhere.................Ronaldo didnt do too much in the last world cup
England do have the players to perform..........3/4 English teams in the CL this year............what does that say?
Eriksson? is he a coach??? Dont think so?
Was a success in italy for a short while, but then that was when football was in the doldrums..........Steau Bucharest, Red Star, Marseille..........boring, largely to forget
As I said, this season will be fun and games:)
Not a lot - for one thing how many English players in those 3 teams?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
thank you. thats exactly what i was going to say. 3/4 english teams consisting of players ronaldo, giggs, heinze, vidic, shevchenko, cech, reina, riise, kuyt, etc, etc, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Fair enough but another way of looking at it is that 8 of their usual starting 11 were involved in European semi finals this yearQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
This thread is the biggest joke ever. Ferdinand, Beckham, Gerrard etc "world class"? Give me a break.
Some of the statements made here have been ridiculous beyond belief.
Eriksson has a poor record as England manager? Played 67; Won 40; Drawn 17; Lost 10.
he has a poor record based on the team he has at his disposal. theres so many defenders that he had to leave out jamie carragher, who in all fairness was savage this year. he also was stupid enough to get caught up with the whole hype about beckham. clearly beckham shouldn't have been starting in that team. lennon is a much better player, and even downing would have been better. another thing- how do you excuse him for bringing walcott to the world cup when he had two half fit strikers. hes an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by sfc red
and then everything he was involved in off the pitch would have a negative impact in the dressing room. players would have lost alot of respect for him.
and this thread wasnt actually supposed to be about his england career. it was about how people thought hed do next year with man city.
Yeah sure, i was waiting for this responceQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
but you still have the body work of a good team.............Carragher, Ferdinand, Cole, Gerrard (Or Lamps), Carrick, Rooney, Terry, Neville, Crouch, Brown, etc........which was kindof my point:)
I'd just like to drag this up again and remind some posters how well Sven is doing with Man City. Nowhere near relegation as someone suggested.
I think it pretty much proves how much the English media damaged his reputation in these islands after he didn't win the World Cup with them.
I think EndaBob's assessment of the English team is quite accurate, except I think Beckham is a better player than EB thinks.
Pre-season I bought into the media's rumours that eriksson hadn't even seen his signings and was horrified at the prospect of Stephen Ireland being dropped at the expense of some foreigner he'd only seen in video.
I now accept that his signings were very good and I applaud the form he has got from the 2 Irish lads. Dunne is playing better than ever.
I don't think Eriksson under achieved with England. He made tournament qualification a formality and they pretty much found their level in every tournament they qualified for. Only taking 4 forwards to Germany was a mistake but their performance against Brazil in Japan, for which he was heavily criticised, was a failing of the English game and their players.
Yeah sure I thought they would be relegated, but hell take out the top 4 and the EPL is crap.
i wont mention all the money he has spent on players he was "advised" to buy without even seeing
Did i already mention he isnt even a football coach!
But anyway they still wont win anything
They're actually in the top 4 at the moment though. Big improvement on last years performance when they finished 14th and couldn't score at home. Now they have the second best home record in the league (9W 2D 0L), better than Liverpool at Anfield (4W 5D 1L) or Chelsea at Stamford Bridge (6W 4D 0L).Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Lawrie Sanchez spent >£20m and look where it got him. Benitez spent a lot too and Liverpool aren't making the same kind of improvement. Same with Newcastle. West Ham have spent big as well. Tell me why those sides aren't doing as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
"Advised"? All managers are advised on the players they buy. Wenger would be some miracle worker if he had time to traipse around Europe finding all the bright talent Arsenal have. Ferguson can't do it either or any other manager for that matter. Ever hear of scouts?
I think Erickson and Keane spent the same amount on players, Keane went for players he had worked with and saw many times in training and Erickson went for players that he saw on DVD. Now I know Erickson had a better base to work with but still the difference is huge. Admint it Bennocelt you got it wrong and what makes it funny is that you were so slating of him and of anybody that supported him.
Thanks Neil, completely forgot about Keane spending a small fortune at Sunderland.
He's managing Manchester City. When you're rated to go down and then you finish fifth and still be slated because below the top four is rubbish - just what has he to do to get some credit?:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Man City are in the Top 4 :rolleyes: You usually find that the Top 4 in most countries are better than the teams below them and I think the English teams are doing ok in the UEFA Cup. There is a big gap ok between the Arsenal/Chelsea/Man U and the rest but there is also a big gap between those clubs and most other teams in Europe. You listen to Dunphy too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
No i usually wait till the end of the season:), but yeah i was wrong Man City wont be relegatedQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
but im still right on Sven, he is crap, and all those teams that you mentioned spending money....well guess what.....they are crap too!
Take out the top 4 in the Premieership and its a joke (well maybe everton and blackburn), do the same in spain or italy and you can see the difference (seville, villreeal or roma for example)
Arsene Venger doesnt just watch a DVD, listen to a scout, or corss his fingers hoping for a good lucky buy............he actually buys players that he knows can fit into his system of football..............:rolleyes:.
I can't say I rate Sven too highly tbh. They were extremely lucky to beat Azerbaijan and Wales away as well as Austria and Poland at home. If they hadn't got such an excellent defence they'd have been screwed because they were outplayed for large periods of those games. At the world cup itself they struggled to beat Trinidad. Again it was a defensive performance against Paraguay after they scored and Paraguay dominated the game.
This is England. Some of the best players in the world to choose from. They always looked ordinary under Sven. I bet they look better under Capello and dominate more games.
Oh I dont even know where to begin on this one.:D
So there's only 4-6 good teams in the whole of English football?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
If he was that crap , his team certainly wouldnt be in the position they are in now , nor would he have ever won a trophy as a manager at all no matter how much money was spent.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
The same Roma who are 2nd at the moment in Serie A ?and who have finished in that position the last 2 seasons . Sevilla came 3rd last season and were top for large periods of it , going through a rough patch now though , Villareal are in 4th now.and have finished in the top 4 before.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
To be fair your assertion about the strengths of the mid ranking Italian and Spanish teams would have been true maybe 2-3 years ago but I dont think its true now.
So you dont think Eriksson thought that there could be a role for Elano or Petrov in his team , You think they just appeared out of nowhere as a surprise to him ?And I think you'll find that managers all over the world listen to the advice of scouts, thats what they are bloody there forQuote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Looks like some on this thread need to eat all the humble pies.