Welsh clubs invited to Setanta Cup!

http://www.welsh-premier.com/news.php?ID=5506


THE Welsh Premier is considering an invitation for two of its clubs to participate in the Setanta Cup.

Currently the exclusive preserve of clubs in Ireland, the competition is sponsored by pay-TV channel Setanta, which provides prize money of €350,000 and sponsorship of €1.6 million over four years.

Last season, Carnegie Premier League teams Dungannon Swifts, Glentoran, Linfield and Portadown were joined by Eircom League sides St Patricks Athletic, Derry City, Drogheda United and Cork City in the competition.

The South Wales Echo claimed last week that the FAW was considering plans to invite cross-border teams from Scotland and Ireland to join the FAW Premier Cup, but Welsh Premier League chairman Alun Evans has clarified the story and says it is the organisers of the Setanta Cup who have made the initial proposals.

"At the moment the Setanta Cup is composed of four Eircom League clubs and four Irish League clubs playing in two groups of four with a semi-final and final to close the competition," explained Evans.

"The format being proposed by the Irish leagues is to have two clubs from the Eircom League, two from the Irish League, two from the Welsh Premier and two from the Scottish Football League.

"The matter was discussed at the FAW Council meeting last week and was handed over to the Welsh Premier League to act as it sees fit."

Once more information is forthcoming the matter will be referred to the clubs and Evans continued: "If the competition falls in place in the summer as what would be for Welsh Premier clubs a pre-Europe warm up tournament, then all well and good.

"However, if the competition runs during the season then both the League and clubs would have to consider the implications to League and Cup fixtures, especially if it coincides with the present Setanta Cup dates – running from early February to May."

This year's third final was contested by Linfield and Drogheda United, the only teams to have won the competition previously, and was the first to be played in Northern Ireland, at Windsor Park.

It is not clear whether Welsh involvement in the Setanta Cup would spell the end of the FAW Premier Cup but, if it did, eight Welsh Premier clubs would miss-out on the considerable financial benefits from the 10-year old, BBC-sponsored tournament.

That Welsh Premier site is usually right on most things, so it looks quite promising.

I'm sure dcfcsteve will have something to say about this, knowing his views on our little league........:D

This could kill the competition IMO. The Scottish teams would be coming from their second division. If the Scottish and Welsh teams enter I hope the eircom League pulls out from the competition.

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Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

This could kill the competition IMO. The Scottish teams would be coming from their second division. If the Scottish and Welsh teams enter I hope the eircom League pulls out from the competition.

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Yeah right.....


Damn if we want in we have to win the league or even worse the CUP :( I would be interested in that. Dont see a downside really just hope they have the games on weekends rather than Wales on a monday night.


kdjac

It won't be much good if the Welsh sides see it as a "a pre-Europe warm up tournament"... I can't see the Welsh and Scottish teams taking it seriously. And I think it goes against the overall goal of an All-Ireland league.

Also considering that teams will have to fork out to fly to wales in the middle of the week and with the IL clubs nearing the end of their season then I doubt they'd want that to happen

Thats bad news in my opinion.

I think allowing non-top flight Scottish clubs in really cheapens the prestige of the competition. There's no need to add a Scottish dimension. Tinkering with the numbers and reducing the amount of Irish clubs is going to disenfranchise domestic soccer fans here. Perhaps they're motivated by the poor showing of Irish league clubs that aren't Linfield and want a fair way to go about reducing IL clubs?

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

Perhaps they're motivated by the poor showing of Irish league clubs that aren't Linfield and want a fair way to go about reducing IL clubs?

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Good point PS - It would have to be one of the only good things about the idea though!

When this proposed expansion supposed to be happening? better not be next year as it'll mean Cliftonville won't be playing in the Setanta cup afterall:mad:

Even if I wasn't a Reds fan I would still have to say that such a move would be bad IMO.

I couldn't be next year as they wouldn't be able to change the format for qualifying half way through our season.

If Scottish 1st or 2nd division teams are allowed in then we should send Leinster and Munster Senior League teams

There is no evidence to suggest that the non Old Firm premier division clubs are on a par with our top clubs. Direct and comparable results suggest we are well ahead eg direct results and results against Icelandic and Lithuanian opposition spring to mind. To send on lower league teams would be a total joke.

The Setanta Cup isn't working at the moment - largely due to the imbalance in quality between the EL and IL.

Adding Welsh clubs would not address that imbalance -and could arguably make it worse - so I fail to see what improvement this proposal would make to the tournament. Given the extremely poor crowds attracted to Welsh Premier matches (worse than the Irish League or our First Division), it certainly wouldn't lead to a boost in the tournament's popularity or revenue - and could even lead to a reduction.

Also - reducing the number of participant sides from each league to only 2 would make it feel like much less of a league-based tournament, and more of a club-based one, and could deprive the competition of the wider support it currently enjoys amongst fans of other clubs. Would many people really want to pay a £100+ a year subscription to watch only 2 clubs from their league in an international tournament ?

So in isolation, I think it's not the right thing for the competition.

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

I couldn't be next year as they wouldn't be able to change the format for qualifying half way through our season.

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so it won't happen til the 2009 setanta cup at the earliest then? hope you are right on that one!

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

I couldn't be next year as they wouldn't be able to change the format for qualifying half way through our season.

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they changed it at the end of last season when we should have qualified just because they wanted.. why not again?

It's an invitational competition. I think they can invite whoever they want (ie. if a non Dublin team finishes higher than a Dublin team, the Dublin team will get through)...RRS.

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Originally Posted by sligoman

It's an invitational competition. I think they can invite whoever they want (ie. if a non Dublin team finishes higher than a Dublin team, the Dublin team will get through)...RRS.

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might have something to do with the fact our ground was a kip at the time though..

no floodlights.
(still)no proper tv setup..
debris all over the place..

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Originally Posted by SligoBrewer

they changed it at the end of last season when we should have qualified just because they wanted.. why not again?

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This time the winner of the First Division will play the winner of the League Cup for a spot so it is quite probable that we could be there. If we earn a place then I'm sure that the FAI wouldn't want to deny us it in light of what happened last year, would they? Believe me, I can empathise with the Sligo fans but the invitational dimension of the tournament really only came into play when Shelbourne pulled out. I don't think the FAI would change (or could get away with changing) the rules governing qualification under normal circumstances.

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Originally Posted by SligoBrewer

they changed it at the end of last season when we should have qualified just because they wanted.. why not again?

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Oh FFS not this again!

Having seen carmarthen town of the welsh league they would be a terrible addition to the competition. Granted they beat us but we had a crowd of bottlers on the team that were cocky and got a rite good kick up the @rse!! On the evidence of what i saw i think they would be even less successful then any of the IL teams and would surely prop up each table!!

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

I couldn't be next year as they wouldn't be able to change the format for qualifying half way through our season.

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its an invitational tournament, there is no "qualifying". they state who they will probably ask, but they can change it if they want - e.g. how the changed it the second year to keep UCD out and Shels in, while it looked shels might not make it by the rules.

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

And I think it goes against the overall goal of an All-Ireland league.

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Well it might not be Setanta's aim but it probably is the main reason why the IFA are proposiong this, to make it feel less "All Ireland"

It won't happen though as there is no upside to Setanta Ireland, and they are the ones who call the shots. Whatever chance they have of getting people to look at Linfieldv Derry, they have no chance of getting people to watch TNS v Gretna

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

It won't be much good if the Welsh sides see it as a "a pre-Europe warm up tournament"... I can't see the Welsh and Scottish teams taking it seriously. And I think it goes against the overall goal of an All-Ireland league.

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I'm sorry to disapoint you, but the Setanta cup is in no way a stepping stone towards an all-island league.

Before that will happen, the two countries have to be one, and that isn't likely to happen in our life times anyway.

People need to get this all-island league out of their heads. It is pie in the sky.

What we have now is the best way for our two countries to play each other. At the moment the LOI have the upper hand, but hopefully the gap will begin to close once we get our league structures sorted out and also get a bit of investment.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Well it might not be Setanta's aim but it probably is the main reason why the IFA are proposiong this, to make it feel less "All Ireland"

It won't happen though as there is no upside to Setanta Ireland, and they are the ones who call the shots. Whatever chance they have of getting people to look at Linfieldv Derry, they have no chance of getting people to watch TNS v Gretna

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I think Setanta seen a market and went for it. I don't think they really give a damn about an all-island league.

But I think involving the welsh and scottish teams is a mistake unless they double the prize money so then we dont lose out on traveling expenses.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I think Setanta seen a market and went for it. I don't think they really give a damn about an all-island league.

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Obviously.

Can't see teams down here looking forward to having our allocation halved either

No, no, no.........what is wrong with them??

I think it's grand the way it is. No Welsh teams please and for God's sakes no Scottish teams. It'll ruin the whole inter-provincial/national rivalry. Lots more fans over here would rather be the "All Ireland Champion" than the "Champion of Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland (well not really, because the two best Scottish teams won't be involved.)"

It'll devalue the competition and certainly put me off it.

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Originally Posted by SligoBrewer

they changed it at the end of last season when we should have qualified just because they wanted.. why not again?

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How many Sligo fans does it take to change a lightbulb?
What lightbulb? It was given to Pats!

Bad Idea.

Most LOI & IL clubs can barely afford the travel costs of sending their players away every 2nd weekend to games in their own countries. Now their are gonna have to fork out to send players to Wales or Scotland during midweek. It could sent a lot of clubs to the wall.

Not to mention the fact that most of LOI & I.L players are Part-timers and have jobs to work during the week.

The only way it would work, is if the Prize money for entering was on the 100k sterling mark. Winners get a further 250k, Runners up a further 150k, Semi Finals get further 75k.

Then it would be financially lucrative. But it will still take away from the supporters experience. I cannot afford to go to Scotland and wales midweek and I'm not talkin about flights etc. It's losing 2 days work as well.

Well it would only be 2 clusb from each league. League winners and Pats from the EL and probably league winnners and Irish cup winners (or whover Linfield) from the IL so t wouldn't affect "loads of clubs"

Agree with your general point (and Steve Bruce's)

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

At the moment the LOI have the upper hand, but hopefully the gap will begin to close once we get our league structures sorted out and also get a bit of investment.

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The NI league won't improve, until they change to summer football. Until then, they'll continue to get walloped by LOI clubs in pre-season. Setanta are getting fed up with that already, hence this idea.

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Originally Posted by mypost

The NI league won't improve, until they change to summer football. Until then, they'll continue to get walloped by LOI clubs in pre-season. Setanta are getting fed up with that already, hence this idea.

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You would obviously know more about the IL than I would, I only go to IL matches every week:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I'm sorry to disapoint you, but the Setanta cup Before that will happen, the two countries have to be one, and that isn't likely to happen in our life times anyway.

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Can't say I agree with that. An all-island league is a non-political suggestion based on economica and footballing factors.
Rugby, for example, has an all-island league so I don't see how the 'two countries having to be one' argument works.

I would guess the only reason Setanta are looking at this is because they could then show the games live on Setanta 1 or 2 in the UK. That and the fact the competition is currently struggling...

The matches are already shown here on Sky through Setanta Ireland, although I guess through other mediums such as ordinary digital television, your point stands