Election 2007: Tax cuts or not?

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17/05/2007, 4:51 PM
Poor Student

Election 2007: Tax cuts or not?

I think both FF and FG are promising tax cuts of two percent in the next term and I think Labour are definitely promising one for the lower bracket. The Greens have been saying they wouldn't cut taxes although obviously they'll have no real say. Sargent has been saying that better services simply can't be delivered on ever decreasing taxes. Pat Rabbite was saying last night how the budget with its surpluses proves that the govenment is overtaxing us as it is. Can't the added revenue just be ploughed into public services? Won't the added few percent do the state better as a whole then the small savings for the individual? Will the extra money be spent and the tax deficit be reclaimed via other taxes? What do we want?
17/05/2007, 4:52 PM
Schumi

Quit living in the past!
17/05/2007, 4:56 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

Quit living in the past!

Well spotted.:o
17/05/2007, 5:04 PM
Matchman

People would accept tax increases if they knew the money was to be used wisely.
Unfortunately the government has a habit of squandering money and pandering to the public service unions
17/05/2007, 5:10 PM
Dodge

*sigh* the old public servants again. The money should be spent on MORE public servants but it won't be.
17/05/2007, 5:45 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchman

People would accept tax increases if they knew the money was to be used wisely.
Unfortunately the government has a habit of squandering money and pandering to the public service unions

I'm not talking about tax increases. I'm saying they're low enough as it is, do we need further tax cuts? What countries with any way decent services have income tax rates under 20%? I assume by the time FF or FG are finished by next term they'll be down to 18% or at least 19%. From Rabitte's discourse he wants to increase or leave the higher bracket but I doubt he'll get his way.
17/05/2007, 6:37 PM
OneRedArmy

Take the point on efficiency of spending, but on health alone in hards to condone any kind of a tax cut unless we go the fully private route a la the US.
17/05/2007, 6:41 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Take the point on efficiency of spending, but on health alone in hards to condone any kind of a tax cut unless we go the fully private route a la the US.

Doesn't Mary Harney want to bring us there?
17/05/2007, 6:53 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Doesn't Mary Harney want to bring us there?

I thinks theres no doubt thats the direction we are going, more by stealth than official policy.
17/05/2007, 8:49 PM
pete

IMO 20% & 40% are fair tax rates. The big problem is that its too easy to enter the high tax rate on relatively low salary. I think single person enters top rate of tax at approx 35k? Anyone know off hand what it is in the UK?

I think the difference in policies is:
FF, PDs - Cut top & standard rate
FG, Lab - Cut standard rate
Greens, SF - No cuts.

I would oppose current spending increases in the public sector but believe we need to invest in capital spending.
17/05/2007, 9:24 PM
Matchman

Quote:

*sigh* the old public servants again. The money should be spent on MORE public servants but it won't be.

I agree more public servants as in nurses doctors, guards, frontline people.
The bureaucracy is unbelievable in the public service, layer upon layer of administrators. I don't want taxes going on more of that.
17/05/2007, 10:34 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

I think the difference in policies is:
FF, PDs - Cut top & standard rate
FG, Lab - Cut standard rate
Greens, SF - No cuts.

FF are also increasing the band for the standard rate. Not sure about FG. Did Pat Rabbite really say (and I paraphrase as I can't remember the words): "It's my job to relieve the burden on the poor and increase it on the wealthy"?
17/05/2007, 10:40 PM
Risteard

Well given that public services is possibly the biggest issue in the election, I'd happily pay more tax if i thought i'd be seen quicker by a doctor etc etc
17/05/2007, 10:41 PM
Poor Student

What are the tax rates in the much lauded Scandinavian social democratic models?
17/05/2007, 10:42 PM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

FF are also increasing the band for the standard rate. Not sure about FG. Did Pat Rabbite really say (and I paraphrase as I can't remember the words): "It's my job to relieve the burden on the poor and increase it on the wealthy"?

When Pat was younger he was in the communist party so you could probably dig up a lot of quotes like that from him.
17/05/2007, 10:44 PM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risteard

Well given that public services is possibly the biggest issue in the election, I'd happily pay more tax if i thought i'd be seen quicker by a doctor etc etc

So would I but I'm less than convinced that paying more tax would help. I think if the government has shown us anything in the last ten or fifteen years it's that spending more money on something won't necessaraly improve it.
17/05/2007, 10:44 PM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchman

I agree more public servants as in nurses doctors, guards, frontline people.
The bureaucracy is unbelievable in the public service, layer upon layer of administrators. I don't want taxes going on more of that.

Yes there is collosal waste and you wouldn't believe how inept a lot of the higher Civil Servants are but as someone who is active in a Public Sector Union I can tell you that you are way off the mark if you think they are pandering to us. If anything we (read - our leaders) pander to them far too much. Its high time public servants got a set of balls and said "this is the line, no further". We've given up way too much in order to get a few measly crumbs under benchmarking.
17/05/2007, 10:47 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

What are the tax rates in the much lauded Scandinavian social democratic models?

I think in Sweden the top rate is 55% but I am open to correction. I remember looking before but they seem to have local & national income tax.

Then again the it all depends what the income bands are...

Worldwide tax comparison

Lots of countries seem to have higher top rates of tax but I doubt average industrial wage earner would be on the top rate.

Indirect tax via VAT is definitely one of the worlds highest in Ireland.
17/05/2007, 10:57 PM
holidaysong

Swedes get taxed at 32% in the normal band and then an extra 20 or 25% in the higher band. I think the higher band is around €50,000.
17/05/2007, 11:07 PM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by holidaysong

Swedes get taxed at 32% in the normal band and then an extra 20 or 25% in the higher band. I think the higher band is around �50,000.

Funny thing is, I was in sweden last summer and they couldn't stop telling me how great they think Ireland must be as a country and would list of a pile of problems they have that we don't.

I think a lot of these international comparisons are a case of the grass being greener in the other field.
17/05/2007, 11:15 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by holidaysong

Swedes get taxed at 32% in the normal band and then an extra 20 or 25% in the higher band. I think the higher band is around �50,000.

I doubt 50k would not make you rich in Sweden paying 50-55% on your income & 25% VAT on the remaining 40-45%. :eek:
17/05/2007, 11:22 PM
Risteard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

So would I but I'm less than convinced that paying more tax would help. I think if the government has shown us anything in the last ten or fifteen years it's that spending more money on something won't necessaraly improve it.

I agree.
Just think the new clowns will do better than FF/PD.
FG are not consistent with my political leanings and I'll have plenty of problems with them in 4 years but I'm sure they wouldn't waste 17 billion on these projects.
18/05/2007, 12:50 AM
holidaysong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Funny thing is, I was in sweden last summer and they couldn't stop telling me how great they think Ireland must be as a country and would list of a pile of problems they have that we don't.

I think a lot of these international comparisons are a case of the grass being greener in the other field.

Yeah I was there myself a few months ago and I got the same kind of thing from the Swedes. They put in a new more right of centre government not too long ago, I'm not sure if things have changed much since then... The thing they seemed to be most worried about was 'the immigrants coming in and taking all their jobs' - maybe we're not so different after all! ;)
18/05/2007, 1:09 AM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by holidaysong

The thing they seemed to be most worried about was 'the immigrants coming in and taking all their jobs' - maybe we're not so different after all! ;)

I noticed that too, it's probably the thing they admired most about Ireland, how we took in a huge influx of foreigners with few problems.
18/05/2007, 1:15 AM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risteard

FG are not consistent with my political leanings and I'll have plenty of problems with them in 4 years but I'm sure they wouldn't waste 17 billion on these projects.

I wouldn't be so sure. Some of the logic of that website is suspect but even if you take it at face value, I'd have more confidance in FG and Lab if they had objected to those projects before they'd happened. Noticing a mistake after the event is exactly the same skill FF has.

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