Roy O'Donovan talks of setanta cup changes.

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03/05/2007, 6:10 PM
Supersaint

Roy O'Donovan talks of setanta cup changes.

I just read this on 11 a side.com,Roy O’Donovan feels the Setanta Sports Cup would benefit from the inclusion of teams from the Scottish Premier League.he believes the competition is in danger of diminishing in importance unless changes are made and feels Scottish sides could have a huge role to play in the future.Considering Setanta have the rights to Scottish football, it makes sense, particularly for those clubs like Aberdeen, Hibs, Kilmarnock who were knocked out of Europe early in the year.It would add a lot to the competition, which pretty soon will need a fresh injection.im sure not many people would disagree that scottish clubs would make the cup much better but i for one do not think they would be attracted to it.the prize money is not good enough if clubs in scotland did participate in the setanta cup i for one would be in favour of welsh teams joining to make it like the celtic league.
04/05/2007, 12:13 AM
GavinZac

the obviously stickler is celtic/rangers. how would one decide who qualifies - the highest teams beyond them? would hearts/hibs consider themselves too big? if so, would the paying public actually find credibility in a token gesture by the bigger clubs in sending over some reserves, or in smaller, losing clubs like dunfermline pretty much choosing to join the competition if they feel like it.
04/05/2007, 1:48 AM
Snoop Drog

I don't think Welsh clubs would make a great addition to the cup. Scots would be great I reckon but I can't see them being too interested in it. Would they really be interested in playing against irish clubs? I am sure they see themselves as being well above us standard wise (even if Aberdeen and Gretna know better...)
04/05/2007, 8:16 AM
Pablo Escobar

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinZac

the obviously stickler is celtic/rangers. how would one decide who qualifies - the highest teams beyond them? would hearts/hibs consider themselves too big? if so, would the paying public actually find credibility in a token gesture by the bigger clubs in sending over some reserves, or in smaller, losing clubs like dunfermline pretty much choosing to join the competition if they feel like it.

Well, it's an invitational tournament. ;)
04/05/2007, 8:24 AM
Steve Bruce

Maybe the Setanta cup should create an tournement with a 2 or 3 million prize fund that's exclusive to UK and ROI. With an entrance fund of 200k per club.

2 from ROI, 2 from IL, 2 from Wales, 4 from Scotland(including Gers and Celts) and 6 from England.

That is bound to create some interest from the bigger clubs as 2 million is nothing to be sniffed at. With the added stipulation that you have to field atleast 7 players that have played 70% or more matches that season. That would mean that there will be strong teams in the tournement fielding a strong panel. Play this 2 legged tournement in July/August.

If the prize is good enough the clubs will take it seriously. Fair enough we might not have a chance of winning it, but we could have some great clubs visit our grounds and make us a lot of money and also give our players experience playing against fitter and faster players.

Obviously this is highly ambitious and 99% certain it wont happen, but it would be great to see.
06/05/2007, 10:31 PM
GavinZac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

That would mean that there will be strong teams in the tournement fielding a strong panel. Play this 2 legged tournement in July/August.

:eek: no thanks, we have european games then
06/05/2007, 11:51 PM
Cymro

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinZac

:eek: no thanks, we have european games then

Ah, but Linfield are usually out of Europe by August though. ;) :p

I think he meant June/July, in which case it would actually be a decent warm up for Europe, well except the Intertoto Cup.

I've often thought that you could get the european reps of Ireland, Northern Ireland and Wales (possibly Scotland though I doubt the Old Firm would be willing to risk their players) together for a pre-European competition. It would be beneficial to all parties as they would be playing opposition of a similar calibre to that which they'd face in the first round of Europe.

Maybe hold it in a different country each year so do Wales one yar, NI the next and then ROI, then back to Wales.

Of course, you could just play this as a fairly loose pre-season thing and then keep the Setanta Cup in its current format.

But I would definitely support such a venture, as it would undoubtedly help Welsh sides prepare a lot better for Europe than they currently do. Most of the time pre-European build up involves a friendly with an English lower league side, although I believe Rhyl did a friendly against Portadown this season.
07/05/2007, 12:08 PM
dcfcsteve

Didn't we exhaust this whole issue only last month ?? :confused:

Feels like Groundhog Day on here sometimes..... :D
07/05/2007, 10:33 PM
eirebhoy

There was highlights of a Welsh match on Sky last night and the standard was absolutely brutal. I've no idea if it was a league match or what. I really thought I was watching Sunday league.
08/05/2007, 6:37 PM
rebelarmyexile

It would be great to see a Home Nations sort of cup return. however theres no point if it were against English premier teams or Gers/Cellick.

Maybe against Championship and lower down scots teams. maybe top 2 RoI, top 2 IL, 2 scot who missed out on europe and top 2 Championship. and same group format as current setanta. wudnt bother with the welsh as their local league is worse than ours.
12/05/2007, 8:18 PM
Big Ears

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

There was highlights of a Welsh match on Sky last night and the standard was absolutely brutal. I've no idea if it was a league match or what. I really thought I was watching Sunday league.

I didn't see it myself but I think what you are referring to is the Welsh Cup final .
13/05/2007, 2:30 PM
Da Real Rover

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebelarmyexile

It would be great to see a Home Nations sort of cup return. however theres no point if it were against English premier teams or Gers/Cellick.

Maybe against Championship and lower down scots teams. maybe top 2 RoI, top 2 IL, 2 scot who missed out on europe and top 2 Championship. and same group format as current setanta. wudnt bother with the welsh as their local league is worse than ours.

I think that sounds like a great format, but i would be strongly against any english club inclusion, haveing championship teams is no great attraction and i feel would diminish the importance of the trophy.
13/05/2007, 5:07 PM
superfrank

Why should it change just cos one player says so?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
13/05/2007, 5:15 PM
GavinZac

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

Why should it change just cos one player says so?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

eh, its been discussed fairly regularly since the inception of the competition, by other managers and players. and one could argue, given that at the moment it appears to be linfield versus the eL, it could be described as broken.
13/05/2007, 5:27 PM
superfrank

I personally see nothing wrong with the way it is at the moment. Linfield will have their bad days and if the "professional" el clubs keep going the way they are, they won't be around much longer.

Adding Scottish and English teams would be a big mistake and another thing is that the Setanta Cup gives teams the chance to say they are the best team on the island. What's the point in having a competition where Scottish and English teams come over give us a whooping and **** off home? Does our league image no good and will surely dent the confidence of our league's clubs and supporters.
13/05/2007, 5:34 PM
GavinZac

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

I personally see nothing wrong with the way it is at the moment. Linfield will have their bad days and if the "professional" el clubs keep going the way they are, they won't be around much longer.

well yuo can't exactly plan a competition for teams "not being around".

Quote:

Adding Scottish and English teams would be a big mistake and another thing is that the Setanta Cup gives teams the chance to say they are the best team on the island.

It gives the team no more claim to be "the best team on the island" then winning the FAI cup gives a team the claim to be the best in ireland. its a cup competition and typical cup results like linfields win out of the blue against cork (pardon the pun) will continue to happen and as such isnt a measure the same as a league would be.

Quote:

What's the point in having a competition where Scottish and English teams come over give us a whooping and **** off home? Does our league image no good and will surely dent the confidence of our league's clubs and supporters.

the point is, the more the cup becomes criticised and predictable, the less people will watch it, and the less likely it is to be sponsored by setanta for tv. this cup was never about raising an image, with was about providing setanta with something to show in return for cash.
as for "Scottish and English teams come over give us a whooping and **** off home", i can assure you bray wanderers will not be anywhere near the competition and as such it is unlikely that would happen.
13/05/2007, 5:41 PM
superfrank

The fact of the matter is any SPL team and any top Championship team would beat any el team, imo. Sure look at Dunfermline: They had a whole bunch of ex-el players and they got relegated. Hmm, makes you think. Granted there have been a few success stories like Doyle, Murphy, Hawkins ut others have failed miserably. Jason Byrne prime example and he was easily the best striker over here when he left. The reality is man for man any of those teams would beat el teams.

Where in my post did I say it proves beyond reasonable doubt that the Setanta Cup winners are the best in the league? Here's what I said.

Quote:

...and another thing is that the Setanta Cup gives teams the chance to say they are the best team on the island.

I'm not even going to sink to slagging your club Gavin, life's too short.
13/05/2007, 5:44 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

The fact of the matter is any SPL team

Not a hope...how many ex el players did dunfermiline have when they got relegated? How many of those would get on the Pats or Drogheda team....Il leave us out considering the disaster that was last night....

Gretna are an SPL team now...sure theyd beat any EL team alright wouldnt they...
13/05/2007, 5:44 PM
GavinZac

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

The fact of the matter is any SPL team and any top Championship team would beat any el team, imo. Sure look at Dunfermline: They had a whole bunch of ex-el players and they got relegated. Hmm, makes you think. Granted there have been a few success stories like Doyle, Murphy, Hawkins ut others have failed miserably. Jason Byrne prime example and he was easily the best striker over here when he left. The reality is man for man any of those teams would beat el teams.

well thats your opinion, but apparently those directly involved in the competition do not share it. that is why it is being discussed, aswell as the already outlined need to stir interest in the competition to keep it watchable and alive.

Quote:

I'm not even going to sink to slagging your club Gavin, life's too short.

I believe you are the one who started slating the teams involved. don't expect me to pay bray wanderers any more respect than you have to our own teams.
13/05/2007, 5:49 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinZac

I believe you are the one who started slating the teams involved. don't expect me to pay bray wanderers any more respect than you have to our own teams.

Where did I do that?
13/05/2007, 5:51 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

Not a hope...how many ex el players did dunfermiline have when they got relegated? How many of those would get on the Pats or Drogheda team....Il leave us out considering the disaster that was last night....

Gretna are an SPL team now...sure theyd beat any EL team alright wouldnt they...

I don't know. I hgaven't seen Gretna play in a year. Yes they were thumped by Derry but Derry have changed a lot since as I'm sure Gretna have. And what evidence is there to say Dunfermline aren't any better than Gretna?
13/05/2007, 5:54 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

I don't know. I hgaven't seen Gretna play in a year. Yes they were thumped by Derry but Derry have changed a lot since as I'm sure Gretna have. And what evidence is there to say Dunfermline aren't any better than Gretna?

Well id go wit them being in a lower division mostly......

It doesnt matter i have no doubt any of our top 4 teams would be equal to anyone outside the top 4/5 in the Spl.

Were probably never gonna find out whos right or wrong but I obviosly have a lot more confidence in our league than you do.
13/05/2007, 5:55 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

Were probably never gonna find out whos right or wrong but I obviosly have a lot more confidence in our league than you do.

I'll agree with you on that.
14/05/2007, 1:56 PM
Torn-Ado

Welsh teams would be more suitable. The SPL has a crowded fixture list to begin with.
14/05/2007, 1:59 PM
Risteard

TBH, I don't think its up to Roy O'Donovan to be setting the agenda.
Grand, he's entitled to make money by giving his point of view.
However, I think he'd be better off keeping his head down rather than spouting his waffle on every club in the island.
14/05/2007, 3:40 PM
pete

Seen some of the League One Promotion playoff yesterday & the top eL sides would beat them more than they would lose so be pointless inviting them. Similarly inviting any teams below maybe 4-6th in the SPL would be pointless.
14/05/2007, 4:14 PM
Steve Bruce

Hearts came over to play Linfield and Ballymena 2 or 3 seasons ago. They went to Ballymena Showgrounds with a very strong team and got thumped 3-1.

Came to Windsor, played there strongest team and we thrashed them 1 nil. On another day we would have beat them 4 or 5, we just didn't stick our chances away apart from the one.

The very top teams of LOI would comfortably live in the SPL as would Linfield. I think though it would take a season or so for the top teams on this island to get right up to speed with the SPL but we would certainly live there once the adjustment to playing at the higher standard is made.

Don't forget if any of the tops teams on this island went to the SPL(obviously hypothetical) we would go from being the best on this island, to being the lesser teams in the SPL(as obviously Hearts, Aberdeen, Rangers, Celtic and Hibs would be the better teams)
14/05/2007, 5:28 PM
eirebhoy

I think Hearts are still quite a bit ahead of Irish teams. They're playing very well atm and it's just off field problems that have ruined their season. The rest though (excluding Celtic and Rangers) are beatable.

Going a bit off topic here but Hearts signed a Ghanaian in January, Laryea Kingston. Fantastic player.
14/05/2007, 7:29 PM
Lim till i die

Was done to death a few weeks back no??

The very idea of inviting kiss arse Scotish outfits over to somehow bolster the competition is ludicrous

What I would consider the Big (being the operative word here folks) 5 of Scottish football would have f-all interest and do you really think your average Joe six pack gives a fig whether your playing Portadown or Motherwell on a Monday night??

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