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I think the standard of the Premier has taken a big drop in standard this season.
The bottom teams are as bad as seen in years & no real quality at the top. At the top Pats have improved (not by the gap there is though) but Cork & Derry City have gone backwards whereas Drogs with new better players seem to be playing same long ball football for years now (maybe their injuries affecting them but I don't think so).
Was this always likely to happen with such an exodus of the leagues best players?
If Cork and Pats swapped places in the league I doubt you'd be making this point
I agree with Pete to an extent. There are too many teams (including ourselves) playing horrible negative football.
I don't think so. We have potential quality players like O'Donovan (will be gone soon) but he isn't an overall good player. Aside from rivalries I prefer to see Pats top as ye far play better football than Drogs who defend with 11 men behind the ball when leading at home in the 1st half. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by charliesboots
I think it was inevitable that the standard would drop. Many top players have left the league and clubs have just replaced them with players already at the club or by buying players already playing in the league.
Your right about Drogs, couldn't believe on Monday how much hoofball they actually played, pericularly when they have some decent passers in their team.
I think its best to start judging the league after the first serious of games are completed.
We're being missed already :cool:
:D
or rather, the players that you conned into playing for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raheny Red
LOL @ Shels fansthinking they played ball. Look at what your manager isdoing with Derry. Ask them is a positive manner.
Every match I've been at at least one team has tried to play football so I'm happy enough. For the record Galway and Rovers are two sides we've beaten who at least tried to play football.
Yes, it was shocking, there were only nine passes in the move leading to Zayed volleying into the net.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by charliesboots
Itd actually be the opposite. If we were top of the league now id be very worried bout the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliesboots
We have players playing who shouldnt be anywhere near a top EL first team because of lack of options/depth.
If anything Pats' football is whats boosting the league right now.
If you compare the team we had when we won the league, to our team now there is no comparison, like men against boys. And yet we didnt walk away with it that year. It went to the last day and shels werent far behind.
I'd agree that the standard has really gone down alright. Derry nowhere near as good as last year(s). We're worse than last season, as is Cork, Longford, UCD, Waterford and more. No one team sticking out as big improvers really, except Pat's who were **** last season.
TBH, only Pats, Drogheda, Rovers and the Bores can claim to be going forwards.
The bottom of the division is worse than the top of the first IMO.
Now that is just silly
UCD aren't worse, you just happened to buck a trend by law of average.Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
The problem with Derry and Drogs are the managers they have in charge. Cork have regressed alright but the quality that has left their squad for two years running is the most marked (well apart from Shels but that's a different story).
How so? Dundalk would take Longford apart at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soper
If last season was normal, they would have been up. And they have strengthned.
Bringing the total up to 15 for you for the game. Not to mention that our centre half set the goal upQuote:
Originally Posted by Celdrog
Super finish mind you
Just because he may not be playing a positive style of ball with Derry,i'm curious to know how you think that means he played bad football with Shels?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Not bad football, just not very exciting football. Built on solid foundations but with little flair (Ndo excepted)
Similar to Drogheda, its winning football no doubt
Think managers have got a lot better and have their teams better set up.
Good point, it's not a winner at the trunstiles though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
To answer pete this was always going to happen with the player exodus and restricted budgets, it may be better in the long run.
One step back two steps forward?Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyT
Just going by who I've seen:
Cork: probably the hardest-hit by players leaving, that coupled with the Healy / Farrelly situation means they have gone backwards.
Derry: Delaney leaving doesn't count as "exodus" and he's balanced out by Rogers going in so they've only really lost Forde and Martyn that I can think of off the top of my head. Losing two players shouldn't have so catastrophic an impact, have to attribute their implosion to a poor manager who may not be able to buy in what he wants to solve the problem the way he could at Shels.
Rovers: tried to play football against us last night, but haven't really got the players to do so properly. Good manager, going in the right direction.
Sligo, Bray, Longford, Waterford: all woejus. Being charitable, combinations of average players and average managers.
After that, who's benefitted from Shels falling apart in terms of picking up their players?
Drogheda: strongest squad in the League by a long shot but seem determined not to take advantage of it by actually trying to play football. Horrible to watch, have to lie the blame at Doolin's door.
Bohs: Drogs Lite. On paper, should be formidable but five goals in eight games tells its own story. Like Derry, have to attribute a lot of the blame to a poor manager. Surprised the calls for blood haven't been ringing out from the Jodi yet.
Us: well obviously we're just bloody marvellous. ;) Seriously though, some good signings (not all from Shels, mind) and a radical change in formation has us now playing the way we are. Definite improvement, even if we haven't quite yet got the knack of doing it for 90 minutes week in, week out. When we do... Johnny Mc has to take a lot of the credit.
In summary, some managers doing their stuff, some not and we're the only ones that seem to be doing well after Shels' almost-closing-down sale. Dunno if you can say overall standards have got better or worse, but the landscape in terms of clubs making the running is certainly changing.
We gave a good game to every team we've played this year with the exception of Sligo.
I think the league can be divided into a few mini pools this year.In no particular order....(except Waterford maybe)
Drogheda
Pats
Derry
Cork
Bohs
UCD
GUFC
Sligo
Rovers
Longford
Bray
Waterford
Then again every team in the lower 3 pools can beat each other.
Sligo are currently drawing with Waterford....:eek:
I thought Cork played some nice football when we were down there.
Pats were good last night and pleasing on the eye, Ndo was a joy to watch
Eve the Bozo's tried to play against us, as for Drogheda sweet enola gay I never seen so much hoofing in my whole life. Most teams are trying to do the right thing. The players are fitter than ever but just not very good but you can live with that once they are trying to get it down
While we have gone backwards we do have some promising talent coming through. Ex-Arsenal Kelly is a future star if we can hold onto as we won't even remember Bennet this time next season. When the FIFA 2 are released we will have stronger squad than last season. We need to stop producing so many quality players that they getting poached :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub
I agree its Doolins fault. I've seen it all before but was amazed that Drogs tried to defend a 1 goal lead for 80 minutes last night. I expected them to counter attack but midfielders never supported the forwards.
Derry's title ambitions are gone already. A come-down from Kenny's departure was expected, but you can't afford to not win 4 home games in a row, and expect to win leagues. Cork have lost a lot of ground in the last few weeks, Pats' early start to the season in the Setanta has given them an edge over other sides. Pats have to go to Cork next, which will be a real indicator of how serious their ambitions are. Drogheda will bore their way through the league. Waterford are already relegated.
Agree. But the hope would be that once clubs start running themselves properly, the league can make propactual advances, and not phoney advances based on Shels' massive debts. Even now, Drogs are only where they are by virtue of running up massive losses, and Pat's are, if not still running up huge losses, then overreaching by dint of a benefactor, as far as I can make out (though obviously well done on the pub profits).Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
The proper level of the league is, and always has been, about Cork's standard now. It was always going to happen that we'd slump back to that level once the Shels and Dublin Citys of the league went belly up.
Don't know where this idea that Pats are spending huge amount is coming from. We've only signed 3 "big" names, Kirby, Ndo and O'Neill. I'm sure Ndo is on big money, Kirby and O'Neill less so I'd guess. Keegan and Molloy have gone, so I'd say the overall increase is budget is not that great. I know we've improved a lot:D , but a good deal of that is down to imporved performances from people who were there last season, Murphy(especially) and Quigley spring to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I noted this on a previous thread - your past two filed accounts show cumulative losses of well over a million. So you're clearly spending a good deal more than you have.
I know there's been changes lately, which is why I tempered my comments, but I don't see that you've cut half a million off your annual budget, and obviously I'm taking out any moeny being pumped in by beneficiaries as that doesn't show the club's actual level.
Stu, don't wanna go over old ground but you gotta be careful about your tenses - don't assume that was true about the past applies to the present. The arrival of Special K has meant a sea-change in our finances - over half a million quid injected between a war-chest he gave Johnny Mc last summer and the first instalment of the Paddy Power deal, which his people were instrumental in making happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Like it or not, this is our "actual level" for now. And all of us are hoping that this is just the starting point. The summer transfer window should prove an indicator of how it's gonna be going forward.
All in good time :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub
Considering what Farrelly put us through during his two year reign of terror this season is total football by comparison, although if the goals/game ratio doesnt pick up soon I think Connor will start to get a bit of flak for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub
Honestly, this season we dont look like conceding too many, and whilst we havent scored a lot, we are gradually getting better. Our performance against Pats was our best so far. I know Pats fans think we were quite defensive but I didnt think we set out for a 0-0. In the final 20 minutes or so we did look like a team determine not to lose on the night though. Its been a recurring theme this season.
We actually played some great football last season but I agree before that it left alot to be desired!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Relative to Drogs ye played like Brazil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raheny Red
The only real test to see whether the standard has improved or regressed is Europe :ball:
I'm not sure where you get this idea from Stu. Cork are by no means a bell-weather for the 'true' playing standard of Eircom league football.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Also - you can't claim that the high-water mark for our league has effectively been bought by the likes of Shels. City finished joint top with them last year, and did it without the money. The year before that we finished above them, but still only in second place, and we had even less money then. So it would be wrong to claim that Shels effectively raised the Eicom League tide unnaturally high through money, as City's boat was up there alongside them without having to spend that level of dosh. If it had been all about the money, there would've been a big gap.
Come on now conor, who are ye kidding, galway have 4 points the same as us but yet you have yourselves 5 places above us in your little table, come on nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Conor H
I'm trying my hardest to separate Pat's from Shels here; I appreciate the point you're making and am trying to factor it in!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub
The bottom line, though, is that Pat's level has been artificially inflated - for now, as you note, but that's not the point I'm making.
I'm not claiming the high water mark has been defined by Shels. I am saying that the average level of the league has been falsely affected by clubs like Shels and Dublin City, and that this process' reversal is why the league is (in my opinion) going backwards a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Also, have you forgotten Cork's winding up petition? They overspent, have cut back and are now back at their approximate proper level. Which, again, is my point.
I used Cork as the marker as the top team in the league outside the two racking up the large losses. (Pat's fans note that cash injections from beneficiaries can't alter the large losses factor)
I'll think you'll find we have 6 points. I would have us ranked 8th or 9th at the moment but haven't yet seen all the teams. Of the teams we've played at Terryland I think Pats were the best footballing side, but whats surprised me is that the level of opposition isn't as daunting as we thought it might be. We've got 5 points away from home and competed well(although losing) against the top 2 sides at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tis-smeee
I thought that was down to an administrative error?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu