Games moved for Live TV

Setanta have a tendency to move game for live tv coverage.

e.g. last week Derry City v Cork City moved from Friday to Monday, up coming Cork City v Pats moved from friday to thursday.

Is this a good move (no pun intended) to increase tv viewing figures or are Setanta taking advantage of the clubs?

I don't object to moving games away from fridays so more people can see the games but the compensating to the clubs for lost revenue is pitiful.

I know the Cork City v Pats game will definitely have smaller crowd on a thursday than a friday so ultimately the home side will lose out financially. I suspect will mean much smaller Pats travelling support too...

Moving the Derry v Cork game certainly impacted the crowd negatively (both Derry and Cork). The weather was a lot worse and deterred a lot of the walk-up crowd. I would've expected at least 700 more on Friday.

If I was a Cork fan I'd have been livid. Extremely inconvenient to have it on Monday as opposed to the Fri night.

We were so accomodating we put a clown in nets to make up for messing up your travel arrangements.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

We were so accomodating we put a clown in nets to make up for messing up your travel arrangements.

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That was good! The angry midget on the sidelines was hilarious too.

this is the way it will go until setanta is happy with how its schedual works, sky done the same when they took control of the premiership in the 90's, id expect setanta to take a similar path to sky and juggle games for maybe 3-4 years, hopefully it wont take that long, but it may, this is the price of having live games, they want bigger audiences but the clubs want attendance so they will have to meet halfway id suspect,

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Originally Posted by pete

I suspect will mean much smaller Pats travelling support too...

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Not 100% sure about that, it's normally only our hardcore who travel down, the sort that'll move half days off work around to accomodate Setanta's crazy whims. Not as if we had a cast of thousands at the Setanta Cup game anyway, just made up for lack of numbers with "liquid enthusiasm".

Incidentally, ORA, how come the travelling Cork fans were put in what used to be the away section of the stand in the Brandywell last Monday, whereas we were put out in the open on the terrace on the opposite side?

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Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Not 100% sure about that, it's normally only our hardcore who travel down, the sort that'll move half days off work around to accomodate Setanta's crazy whims. Not as if we had a cast of thousands at the Setanta Cup game anyway, just made up for lack of numbers with "liquid enthusiasm".

Incidentally, ORA, how come the travelling Cork fans were put in what used to be the away section of the stand in the Brandywell last Monday, whereas we were put out in the open on the terrace on the opposite side?

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We haven't played in Cork on a friday in a while with a decent team. We got about 150 to go a few years ago on a Monday when things were looking good. The Thursday before a bank holiday weekend isn't ideal and will impact on the away crowd

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Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Incidentally, ORA, how come the travelling Cork fans were put in what used to be the away section of the stand in the Brandywell last Monday, whereas we were put out in the open on the terrace on the opposite side?

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Was it raining for the Pats game (poor memory)? I suspect they don't want away fans to stand in the rain if they can get away with it.

There were also very few Cork fans given the game was on Monday.

Is there not a bigger picture regarding games being rescheduled? I mean, having the game on TV is a fabulous advertisement for your club and your 'new' ground where multiples of prospective fans will get a chance to see your team in action. The more TV the better IMO and if teams have to reschedule their matches to accomodate this free advertising then so be it. How much would it cost Cork (or anyone) for a 90 minute advertisement on prime time TV any night of the week?

I think Setanta are in a league of their own regarding domestic soccer coverage. It's not perfect but it ****es on RTE and TV3 coverage. So if they have to rearrange the games then so be it, it's a great advertisement for the league.

spot on IMO

And remember I'm probably most affected here as its looking unlikely I'll get the Thursday half day

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Originally Posted by CharlesThompson

How much would it cost Cork (or anyone) for a 90 minute advertisement on prime time TV any night of the week?

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I understand the advantages of live tv which is why I started the debate. Setanta is not prime time tv like RTE2 would be.

I still don't understand the moving of Derry City v Cork City as it put it up against live Premiership involving popular oirish bandwagon team Reading.

I believe Cork City v Pats attendance will be reduced by 1000 when moving to thursday. Our crowds suffer badly when moved from fridays & that includes Monday night games.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Moving the Derry v Cork game certainly impacted the crowd negatively (both Derry and Cork). The weather was a lot worse and deterred a lot of the walk-up crowd. I would've expected at least 700 more on Friday.

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Don't Setanta pay €5k to the home team for every game they broadcast ? In which case, you'd need to lose more than c.350-450 off a gate for a rescheduled game (depending on balance between adult and child tickets) before it started to be financially detrimental for the clubs involved.

The weather you can't legislate for, so shouldn't be factored in. It could just as easily been sh!tty Friday and brilliant Monday, so is pointless worrying about.

Also - over on the Irish league threads, they're saying most people in the North are off Easter tuesday as well (?), so it's not like people had work to worry about next day.

I would say our rubbish form would have had a bigger impact on the crowd than having it on a Bank Holiday Monday. We're due a slump, given that our poor performances are starting to trend. I wouldn't be surprised if losing to Glentoran Reserves at home wasn't the start in such a slump.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Extremely inconvenient to have it on Monday as opposed to the Fri night.

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Monday night-Friday night = weeknights. No effect on away support.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Monday night-Friday night = weeknights. No effect on away support.

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maybe when your average away trip on friday is across town.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Monday night-Friday night = weeknights. No effect on away support.

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a lotta ppl get off early on fridays or will at least find it easier to get off early. if it's a big journey home on a friday night who gives a sh*t cos what else u gonna be doin on saturday, also applies to overnight stays.

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Originally Posted by Red4Eva

a lotta ppl get off early on fridays or will at least find it easier to get off early.

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Maybe they do in your job. Schoolkids don't get off early, and like most of the adults, they can't travel to long-haul away treks on Friday nights. The poor away support at grounds on Fridays proves that.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Monday night-Friday night = weeknights. No effect on away support.

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Good Friday was a holiday :confused:

If Setanta show a game on a Friday night most LOI fans are at games and cant watch, if they show live games on other weeknights most LOI fans will watch them. It doesnt make sense to put on a show when the core of your audience is nowhere near a TV.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Maybe they do in your job. Schoolkids don't get off early, and like most of the adults, they can't travel to long-haul away treks on Friday nights. The poor away support at grounds on Fridays proves that.

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It proves nothing, Crowds didn't/don't travel on Saturdays or Sundays either. You may get a few more but loads work at the weekend. We get that you despise Friday football but it obviously works for the majority so quit trying to make out that everyone hates it

Oh and BTW Friday nights are far more favourable for those working Mon-Fri as they can relax all day Saturday. Getting back to Dublin at 2am and being in work at 8am on Friday is far from ideal.

I think moving from a Friday night for live TV games is a good idea. Take the Drogheda v Derry game a couple of weeks ago - it clashed with 4 other Premier Division games and 2 First Division games. I'm sure it could affect attendances at these games (small and all as it may be) and it would also affect the number of viewers as the attendances at these other 6 games (say about 10,000) may also have watched the game on TV.

In England, it is illegal for Sky to broadcast live games at 3.00pm on a Saturday, as this is the time that the vast majority of games are played in England. Should a similar rule apply here re Friday nights??

There isn't a hope of RTE, TG4 or Setanta broadcasting live soccer on a Sunday due to the GAA coverage, Setanta are moving from Friday's at the minute because they are committed to the Magners League Rugby. Will they revert to Friday's again once the rugby has finished? Probably!! Monday night's are a good night for the live games in my opinion as they only thing they are up against is a second-rate Premiership game on Sky. I know it affects the number of away fans attending games, but the home team receives €5,000 compensation. More 'away' fans and 'neutral' fans will get to see the game though due to the TV coverage.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Don't Setanta pay €5k to the home team for every game they broadcast ? In which case, you'd need to lose more than c.350-450 off a gate for a rescheduled game (depending on balance between adult and child tickets) before it started to be financially detrimental for the clubs involved.

The weather you can't legislate for, so shouldn't be factored in. It could just as easily been sh!tty Friday and brilliant Monday, so is pointless worrying about.

Also - over on the Irish league threads, they're saying most people in the North are off Easter tuesday as well (?), so it's not like people had work to worry about next day.

I would say our rubbish form would have had a bigger impact on the crowd than having it on a Bank Holiday Monday. We're due a slump, given that our poor performances are starting to trend. I wouldn't be surprised if losing to Glentoran Reserves at home wasn't the start in such a slump.

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On Easter Tuesday Linfield brought in excess of 2000(if not more, the Linfield end was packed) to Newry. Last season Easter Tuesday we brought in excess of 2500 to Lurgan. Obviously the distance isn't as great but I think this highlights the attitude difference between NI and ROI supporters.

I'm not going deride the LOI at all because it superior to the IL in so many ways eg Marketing, Overall standard, overall crowds & prestige. Although I don't think your facilities are that great, but that's something that seems to be improving in LOI football.

Anyway, back to what I was getting at. I think LOI are content on watching the home games only. Obviously you get your hardcore band that goes to every game, but on the whole compared to your home attendances the away support is very minimal.

Linfield for instance, we bring the vast majority of our home support away with us. If we play Institute there would be 2500 at the game in Drumahoe and the ground has been sold out more times than not when Linfield has visited.

When we play Ballymena or Coleraine we would take 1500+ to them games.

We went down to Dublin on a Monday night to play Shelbourne last season in the Setanta there was in excess of 1000 Linfield supporters that made the trip, bearing in mind people had to take time off work/school to make the trip down. Not a bad showing. We would double possibly treble that if the game was played on a Saturday.

Anyway my point is, the attitude of IL supporters is a lot different, the vast majority of people travel to away games, possibly down to routine.

Linfield and Glentoran aside, we might not be very many but what we do have travels.

Can I also make another observation?

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The LOI is ahead of the IL, I admit that and accept that. There's no denying that. But a few things that I have noticed from traveling to Setanta cup games with Linfield, that I think could be improved.

1) Facilities(as I said before), I think a lot of grounds aren't quite up to scratch. I find that most grounds haven't the right standard of facilities for away fans and the grounds don't seem to have the capacity for even 1000 away fans for which if we where to have an all-island league it would be a major stumbling block as Linfield for instance would have a big demand that would be in excess of a 1000. Tolka Park is the best ground I have been in so far down south.

2) Security arrangements aren't great. I have never heard of an away support being held up for 15 minutes to let the home support away. This happened at Drogheda. Fortunately the crowd that came round to our end where not waving bats at us but gave us an applause, which was suprizing and pleasant especially after losing to us.

3) Every team gets a decent following in LOI football in excess of 1000 and often in excess of 2000. But it seems even for derby matches your crowds don't come close to 5 figures. Which to me I cannot understand and suprized about. Is it down to lack of facilities? Up here, although well behind Linfield vs Glentoran this boxing day had over 12,000 at it. Last season was the same and hte season before that there was 13000 on Boxing day and 14000 at the Oval(although there was only 11000 tickets, many people paid at the gate)

Again I'm not putting you down, just making a few observations and giving my opinion from the outside looking in.

I know the flaws of IL football(basically everything) so although I'm giving a few critisisms(which I hope comes across as constructive) I'm still slightly jealous that your league has got so many good things going for it eg tv, marketing, good standard(although not better than Linfield:D ) and getting a lot of exposure especially when some one does well in Europe.

A) Linfield are not a valid proxy for the rest of the Irish League; and

B) the "province" can be traversed in less than 90mins, with most away games being less than 45 mins away.

Anyone trying to cross Dublin alone will take over an hour on a Friday evening.

Derry are playing Waterford on Friday, which is a 7 hour journey down in Friday traffic. Try that a few times a year and see how many you bring.

Valid point on facilities though.

From my IL experience, only Windsor park is better than anything down south. You can't honestly say that Shamrock park or Strangmore are btter grounds than Flancare or Dalymount or Turners Cross (the best IMO)

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Originally Posted by Dodge

From my IL experience, only Windsor park is better than anything down south. You can't honestly say that Shamrock park or Strangmore are btter grounds than Flancare or Dalymount or Turners Cross (the best IMO)

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Never been to Turners Cross. Dalymount, Flancare and indeed Tolka are better than the rest of the IL. Others though do struggle and what frustrates Linfield supporters is the inability to cope with our travelling support.

Which is fair enough, but I put most of that down to Garda incompetance than anything else

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Which is fair enough, but I put most of that down to Garda incompetance than anything else

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Well with Drogheda there is simply not the space for a large travelling support.

Yep, hence the reason the ground is due to be demolished (see all the other threads for the Drogs ground debacle)

Apparently they're giving Shamrock 150 tickets for the upcoming leage game

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Yep, hence the reason the ground is due to be demolished (see all the other threads for the Drogs ground debacle)

Apparently they're giving Shamrock 150 tickets for the upcoming leage game

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Who?

I dont agree with changing fixtures at the drop of a hat. For example UCD are playing tonight instead of tomorrow because of a dinner! You cant blame the clubs for this as they have been trying this on for years. But the league should step in and say no. Same goes for thursday night fixtures.

As regards live tv playing on monday nights is daft. How about playing live on a saturday night. Guaranteed good crowd and with sizeable away support too. Even a sunday night is more acceptable.

As someone said the cork fans must have been livid with last mondays game. Why must we copy everthing in england? Just because they show live football on mondays does it mean we have to.......


KOH

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

A) Linfield are not a valid proxy for the rest of the Irish League; and

B) the "province" can be traversed in less than 90mins, with most away games being less than 45 mins away.

Anyone trying to cross Dublin alone will take over an hour on a Friday evening.

Derry are playing Waterford on Friday, which is a 7 hour journey down in Friday traffic. Try that a few times a year and see how many you bring.

Valid point on facilities though.

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I wouldn't expect us to bring thousands to Waterford or Cork if it was an annual thing, but I would certainly expect 4 or 500.

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Originally Posted by David

Never been to Turners Cross. Dalymount, Flancare and indeed Tolka are better than the rest of the IL. Others though do struggle and what frustrates Linfield supporters is the inability to cope with our travelling support.

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I agree, although I would have Mournview and Ballymena showgrounds up there as well.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Good Friday was a holiday

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Where? :confused:

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Originally Posted by dodge

Crowds didn't/don't travel on Saturdays or Sundays either. You may get a few more but loads work at the weekend. We get that you despise Friday football but it obviously works for the majority so quit trying to make out that everyone hates it

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As people work 24/7, the games have to be played sometime during the week. It doesn't take an Einstein to know that the majority of people work on Friday than Saturday, so logic dictates that you play games at the time when the most amount of people can go. That is not a Friday night, never was, and never will be.

We are the only league in Europe, to hold the main weekend's programme on Friday nights. Even the IL won't play then, and they have only short distances to travel.

The reason that games were changed to Fridays was to avoid competition from tv ball and from junior soccer, where a sizeable percentage of LOI fans are involved. There's no doubting that changing to Fridays saw Dublin clubs receive a boost to their attendances in the late 80s, early 90s. It doesn't suit you, or away fans but changing to Sunday afternoons kills most attendances. Do you sacrifice 500 home fans for an extra 20 away fans? Friday nights work for Pats, Bohs, Shels, Cork etc

Oh and who cares if we're the only european league to play on Fridays?

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I wouldn't expect us to bring thousands to Waterford or Cork if it was an annual thing, but I would certainly expect 4 or 500.

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We face a 7 hour plus away journey 3 times a season. Do you have that many unemployed or otherwise so committed fans that they will take 3 days off work and another 10-15 half days off?

Don't get me wrong, we've brought 500 plus to Cork a few times for big cup games, but its normally in the 50-150 bracket and I can't see any Northern club bringing more once the novelty wears off.

How many do you bring away in Europe?

LOI facilties not great but I think a lot better than the IL. Setanta Cup travelling support is not a reliable indicator of away support than an all-ireland league would bring.

Its funny to hear fans of dublin teams suggest Linfield don't have far to travel for away games when other dublin based fans complain about bus routes for lack of cross dublin support. :D

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Yep, hence the reason the ground is due to be demolished (see all the other threads for the Drogs ground debacle)

Apparently they're giving Shamrock 150 tickets for the upcoming leage game

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all rovers fans will get into utd park for the game .Where do you get your info from :confused:

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

We face a 7 hour plus away journey 3 times a season. Do you have that many unemployed or otherwise so committed fans that they will take 3 days off work and another 10-15 half days off?

Don't get me wrong, we've brought 500 plus to Cork a few times for big cup games, but its normally in the 50-150 bracket and I can't see any Northern club bringing more once the novelty wears off.

How many do you bring away in Europe?

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I for one have already taken days off this season to watch Linfield in the Setanta cup and so have many other people. Although I cannot give you anything concrete to back up my point because we dont have them distances. But it works both ways, you have anything concrete to back up your opinion that we wouldn't.

I would say that Linfield will always bring 4 or 500 to any away ground on this Island if we are allowed.

In Europe it fluctiates each season. It really depends on the draw. We brought 3 or 400 to Cyprus a while back. There was 120 or so in Norway, There was 87(i think that was the number) in Slovenia. There was around 1000 in Copenhagen(could be slightly more, not too sure). So it really depends on the draw. We had a couple hundred go over to England to watch a friendly against Harlow Town a week or so before our European game.

I hardly think European attendances really come into the equation. When it is a big amount of money to splash out on.

did setanta publish a full list of up coming live games they will be showing???id appreciate somebody putting up a list.as i understand it they have the next 10 live games and then TG4 after that.
this is a good and lively debate on this thread,many valid points.it does get the casual fans talking though when they see their local team on t.v.a few fair weather galway utd fans after seeing the game vrs cork city on t.v asked me when is utd's next home game and then they came to it.its like they suddenly woke up from their appathy when they seen them of t.v.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

The reason that games were changed to Fridays was to avoid competition from tv ball, where a sizeable percentage of LOI fans are involved.

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So when are LOI games on tv?? Jaysus, you'd never guess. :D :eek:

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Oh and who cares if we're the only european league to play on Fridays?

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What does it tell you???

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Originally Posted by mypost

Maybe they do in your job. Schoolkids don't get off early,

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I knew you had to be a schoolkid.

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Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

[As above]

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Spam.