What about Linfield, Portadown etc in competitive action at the Cross. What do you think? What are the problems? Can they be over come?
Gerry
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What about Linfield, Portadown etc in competitive action at the Cross. What do you think? What are the problems? Can they be over come?
Gerry
An all Ireland league would be great, It would be a much better league, alot stronger as well, lots of the clubs in the north are really established as well. When is the next game against the north anyway, you know the one where you pick a player from each eircom league clubs to play another similar team from the north.
Dunno when that is, face!
Anyone else got any opinions on a north-south league?
Gerry
I think the only hope we have of ever having a professional, successful league on this island is an All-Ireland League. Possibly a 16 team Premier with regionalised lower divisions?????
Agreed, Joe!
Any ideas on how we can overcome the sectarian problems, the security nightmare etc?
Why would Irish football prosper if those problems no longer existed? Or would it be any better?
Gerry
i know it may not be a popular thing to say but the sectarian element of a north/south league would probably add to the crowds/excitement. football is all about passion and rivalries and a big game against linfield would certainly get the fans going.
think of the anti dublin feeling at games at the cross now and it should be even worse than that. i'd love to see it happen although i agree lower divisions would probably need to be regionalised and it would be a headache to sort this out. i mean would the worst 2 teams be relegated, or would it be the worst southern and the worst northern team, with the prospect of a team finishing comparitively high up the league being relegated?
Interesting one to think that sectarianism could be used to advantage! You might be on the right track about the extra edge to the rivalry appealing to the fans, but I'm not convinced that 'sectarianism' should be the basis for it - though Celtic and Rangers certainly seem to have made the most of it!
The technicalities of relegation etc might pose a problem, you're right. But I think after an initial league was set up for a period of maybe 2-3 years, then perhaps just the bottom two should be relegated, regardless of geography?
Generally speaking, would you think if the 'powers that be', north and south, got their act together could the problems be surmounted or are they just too big?
Gerry
It would certainly be interesting. The sectarian element would have to be considered but the National Rugby League hasn't had major problems so I don't see why there would be...but then you are talking about a different crowd. Extra security would be an extra cost and a necessity. I personally can't see why there can't be an all Ireland soccer national team, like the rugby team although from Northern Ireland's point of view very few of their players would get picked...
I would love to see it happen,but I have my doubts that it ever will because of the sectarianism that exists in the north.For example,who'd fancy going to Belfast to play Linfield during the marching season??? Sorry if I am negative about it,and don't get me wrong I have nothing against protestants,blacks,jews or whatever (indeed I have friends who are these things) but,despite the good progress made in recent years in North-South relations,i.e the Good Friday agreement,I reckon we are still at least 20 years off living in COMPLETE harmony with our neighbours.Being honest,driving through the north to see Pats play Derry City and Finn Harps in Donegal I am always a little nervous,and always relieved to get to Monaghan on the way home!!! Sectarianism does still rear it's ugly head on BOTH sides of the divide,although it has to be said there is hope,because the young people today seem more tolerant towards each other than their parents/grandparents.Better,I think,if both leagues could organise a knock-out cup competition between the top four teams from both to start off with,and see if we can take it from there.Again,sorry if I was negative about the whole idea and sorry for going on,but I just feel that we have to take these things slowly.If I've offended anybody up north,sorry also,but that was not my intention.
i think we could see it in a 3-5 year time frame because of the mutual benefits to the leagues. the crowds should surge in a combined league and since both leagues are struggling anyway its no harm trying.
i still think that given regionalised lower divisions, promotion/relegation is a big issue because with a straight 2 up/2 down approach u could end up with the league being dominated by all northern clubs or all southern clubs and then whats the point of doing it?
also if you relegate 2 northern clubs say, but promote 1 north and 1 south, what do you do with the extra northern club? are they forced to compete in the southern section, presumably not. i think that you'd really need to organise this thing properly for it to work, which almost certainly wouldn't happen.
in terms of north/south cup action, i thought we'd both replaced our league cups with such a competition, or was that all just talk?
the regions wouldn't have to be just north and south though - they could be provincial.
that was going to be called the super8 cup or something like that but didn't get the go-ahead. as far as i can remember they were going to take the top 4 from each league and play midweek matches against each other.Quote:
Originally posted by b_mcsweeney
in terms of north/south cup action, i thought we'd both replaced our league cups with such a competition, or was that all just talk?
I think we need to get our own house in order. We should concentrate on doing a Rosenberg. Investing money so that
we can do well in Europe. A virtuous circle comes about because young players will stay at home and better ones are attracted
by the Champions League. At the moment Ireland have 2- albeit
qualifying rounds-places for the CL, the same as Scotland who only got theirs thru success in Europe. Let's move up a gear first
and use what we have got in our favour at the moment.
There doesn't seem to be much support north of the border at the moment.
Would have to run some form of mid-week (less away supporters) Cup competition first to introduce people tso to speak.
The IL seems to be a fairly insular league anyway but & may or may not be interested in broadening their horizons as they see the eL progress in Europe.
However one ray of light is probably the IL V eL annual game which our northern neighbours seemed to prepare for very seriously compared to ourselves down here.
I don't think you can compare the AIL rugby league as that wouldn't attract many away supporters + I can't see middle class unionists like Trimble & McGuiness running amuck on Patricks street ;)
if it ever did come about, would we all keep our european spot? thats something to think about.....
There would have to be huge sponsorship and massive finantial rewards for the league to work. Many of the Northern sides are much worse off than people think. Many would struggle to send a bus to Monaghan, let alone Cork. For that amount of travelling, it would also probably be neccessary to upgrade all sides to a professional level, as players would require hours off work.
As for security, it would have to be massive. Linfield v's Dundalk? It's always grand to say how peace is in our time and everyone loves each other, but at the end of the day, football typically attracts the mindless idiots intent on causing trouble (as I like to prove regularly with my messages).
Sod the Northern sides. Market our own game properly first and take it from there.
I think Niamh hit the nail on the head here!Quote:
Originally posted by niamh
It would certainly be interesting. The sectarian element would have to be considered but the National Rugby League hasn't had major problems so I don't see why there would be...but then you are talking about a different crowd. Extra security would be an extra cost and a necessity. I personally can't see why there can't be an all Ireland soccer national team, like the rugby team although from Northern Ireland's point of view very few of their players would get picked...
Rugby and football have traditionally had a very different crowd.
Football is typically a working class sport. Boys kicking a can about in the gutter dreaming of one day getting the bus out of Dublin and playing for a decent team like Cork City FC.
Rugby is typically a middle class sport.
How many rugby grounds do you see in Cork WITHOUT floodlights?
So now we've established that there's a difference between the rugby and the football crowd we have to realise that the apparent success of the All Ireland League has no real basis in the pro-united league argument.
The working class of Northern Ireland is where the troubles hit hardest and neither community is quick to forget the respective atrocities they've had to endure. As much as we like to think that there's light at the end of the tunnel the truth is that one bad result in an important game and the frustration gets released. Some yobs take this frustration, re-badge it as sectarianism, justify it by declaring their patriotism and we end up with a league which become famous for it's violence not it's victories.
We intend to be playing "Non Winter" football by the summer of 2003. This type of league schedule would incorporate the marching season. Could this annual scourge be removed by then or would it mean disruption to fixtures?
As much as I would like to see teams from both sides of the border compete in the same way that Derry City do with the other 11 teams, I just can't see the basic issues being resolved.
It's amazing what you'll eat while you're abroad!
I'm all for an All-Ireland league.
Mind you, I'd wish people would stop describing Cliftonville and Portadown as big or succesful clubs 'up north'.
Those two have easily the worst grounds in the league and maybe even the worst teams. Both are run badly as well.
The top 4 in Northern Ireland are the 'big two' Linfield and Glentoran (the only big thing about them are their mouths, but that's a different story) and then Glenavon and Coleraine.
Please stop mentioning Portadown as a good club...
It is worth a try......based on the Champions League format. That way the teams participating, the top 4 in each territory, can still be involved in their own domestic leagues. See how it goes, then adopt some changes, but it would attract the attention of major sponsors, and not the usual mickey-mouse stuff we all see at present. Then there is the TV end of it and more dosh, which is what the game lacks right now. BTW Andy lad, easy on the big mouth stuff. Your lot are perennial underachievers, residing in a trophy free zone.....nothing to crow about there, is there?
Definetely agree.
Rangers play Celtic at least 4 times a year - but trouble is kept to a reasonable low. With the proper stewarding and security measures it shouldn't be a problem but unfortunately I can't see the Irish League agreeing to it.
Which is a huge shame, as I would love a couple of trips to Dublin, Cork and Londonderry every season.
....im my previous posting on this theme,I expressed my fears about sectarianism should an All-Ireland league come about.Pats had a friendlie with Glentoran at the Oval,in east Belfast,last Saturday.I was obviously very reluctant to go up at first,but glens fan and David Kennedy posted messages on the Pats forum with advice and directions etc,basically they said as long as we were sensible we would have no worries.Being a Pats "nut" anyway (in the right sense of the word!) I decided to drive up with my young son,though I was still a little apprehensive.The area around the Oval is apparently 90% protestant and there were loyalist murals,but never once did we feel intimidated because the people involved with Glens,from the board down to the fans,were genuinely friendly towards us few Pats fans and could not have been nicer.One guy,out of the blue,even bought my son a pepsi and crisps which was very good of him! All in all,we had agreat day out and at the end of the game we were exchanging "good luck" handshakes with the Glens fans.I had to leave straightaway due to work next morning,but I heard a few Pats fans were invited into the club bar for a few beers and then into the boardroom,and taxis ordered for those who needed one.I see Rovers played Glenavon and Monaghan Utd played Linfield in the north on the same day,wonder how these got on? Anyway,I salute Glentoran FC and good luck for the future,and hope we'll be back at the Oval before long!!!
It's funny that - whenever Glenavon play there we ain't treated that well..we haven't had the 'pleasure' of sitting in their new 'stand' but it looks good from what I've seen.
Glenavon, Glentoran and Linfield are three of the more 'Protestant teams' all having grounds located in Loyalist areas (Linfield - Shankhill, Glentoran - Newtonards Road and surrounding area and Glenavon - Mourneview estate) There was no trouble at any of these games (though even Linfield fans would find it hard to start a riot with 1 Monaghan fan!).
Like I said, proper stewarding and security measures could almost eliminate trouble.
Its probably a bit like the whole north-south situation whereby people have illogical fears of each other dispite never being across the border.
I know you can't compare the football to rugby but tens of thousands of Ulster Rugby supporters came down to Dublin for the first time ever to see their European Rugby Cup final. Apparently they were surprised to see the priests weren't at every crossroad & I think we'd be similarily surprised if travelled up north ;)
Maybe its like many other things that the football leaders will be the last to agree to any cross-border competition. Do they see it as the beginnings of an All-Ireland footballl association & the less junkies for the boys?
The big opposition will not be from the fans......it will come from that body of administrators that lose out in the 'free bar' area! Sadly the decision makers ( well most of them) belong in that category.
Perhaps if Guinness, Smirnoff, Murphy's, Hennessy (add any other drinkies) were to sponsor the 'bar' area then we would have a quick decision for a big 'thumbs up' eh?
BTW some have touched on what is a 'Protestant team' in earlier posts. This needs careful explanation otherwise the wrong impression is given. In the case of Glentoran, for example, this club has its background and roots in protestant East Belfast......but the important distinction is that they were never 'anti-catholic' and have a proud history of inclusiveness........and success!