NLSA Debate

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15/02/2007, 12:50 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

In your opinion. All wrong however.

NYH - don't forget that I'm familiar with what happened between the FAI and NLSA. I've read the various minutes and the closed forum, I've been involved in discussions around meetings, I've spoken to people much closer involved than me.

So - if this is all just "in my opinion", then please clarify exactly what the NLSA did ? What did the organisation do to generate strength for itself to force the FAI to do what it wanted to do ? What key issues were you pushing and how did you push them ? What was the FAI's response, and what did the NLSA do as a result of that ? If the NLSA did try its best against all the odds, then you should have no reason to not share this with everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

They werent "told" to do anything and nobody was "pushed" around. Thats not how meetings go.

Absolute bullsh!t, and you know it ! The NLSA were well and truly tolf what to do pushed around over tickets, for example - or have you conveniently forgot about that. Again - I'll remind you that I am well aware of what happened in meetings held with the FAI.

LOL - the suggestion that "that's not how meetings work" with the FAI... :o

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

More balls than hammering away on a keyboard anyway. So you go "coordinate events discreetly" and see how far you get.

KOH

Yeah - it takes a lot of balls to roll over and play dead. Since you've put me on the spot - the one press relase that I wrote for the NLSA from London right at the very beginning ctually managed achieve more than pretty much anythign the organisation did since. I'm not saying that blow my own trumpet - it's just that you've decided to try to paint me out as some sort of keyboard warrior. You and the rest of the NLSA officers are based in Dublin and you's achieved little or nothing in over a year....

If you put yourself into a position of leadership then, surprise surprise - those you're supposedly leading (i. the fans) can hold you accountable. If you don't like that and get all hyper-sensitive about it, then step aside.

And we'll see what can be achieved by a small number of people keen on at least doing something....
15/02/2007, 12:55 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Such as?

Another NLSA Rep who just doesn't get the concept of how to run a pressure group...... :rolleyes:

Err - the media....? The FAI are paranoid to the point of obsession/lunacy about how they're portrayed in the media. So if you want them to do something they'd rather not do then, errr - utilise the media.....!

And that doesn't just mean sending a press release to a few people and then scratching your head when it doesn't get coverage...

How the hell do you think other campaigning/pressure groups get anything done ?? Seriously - I can't believe you're so clueless on this ! Look at other pressure groups and learn from how they achieve their objectives....

Maxi and a can of feckin petrol secured more attention in one afternoon than the NLSA did in over a year. I'm not for one minute advocating his particular approaach to securing coverage for your aims and applying pressure, but that shows that it isn't mission impossible for a small group of people to force bigger bodies to do what they don't want to when they act in an inteligent, orchestrated and media-savvy manner....
15/02/2007, 1:06 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

NYH - don't forget that I'm familiar with what happened between the FAI and NLSA. I've read the various minutes and the closed forum, I've been involved in discussions around meetings, I've spoken to people much closer involved than me.

So - if this is all just "in my opinion", then please clarify exactly what the NLSA did ? What did the organisation do to generate strength for itself to force the FAI to do what it wanted to do ? What key issues were you pushing and how did you push them ? What was the FAI's response, and what did the NLSA do as a result of that ? If the NLSA did try its best against all the odds, then you should have no reason to not share this with everyone.

Absolute bullsh!t, and you know it ! The NLSA were well and truly tolf what to do pushed around over tickets, for example - or have you conveniently forgot about that. Again - I'll remind you that I am well aware of what happened in meetings held with the FAI.

LOL - the suggestion that "that's not how meetings work" with the FAI... :o

Yeah - it takes a lot of balls to roll over and play dead. Since you've put me on the spot - the one press relase that I wrote for the NLSA from London right at the very beginning ctually managed achieve more than pretty much anythign the organisation did since. I'm not saying that blow my own trumpet - it's just that you've decided to try to paint me out as some sort of keyboard warrior. You and the rest of the NLSA officers are based in Dublin and you's achieved little or nothing in over a year....

If you put yourself into a position of leadership then, surprise surprise - those you're supposedly leading (i. the fans) can hold you accountable. If you don't like that and get all hyper-sensitive about it, then step aside.

And we'll see what can be achieved by a small number of people keen on at least doing something....

I'm hyper sensitive? Coming from you? I just got back up from the floor!

Calm down pal. Its all on the website as I dont have the capacity to type out an encyclopedia in 10 seconds. And as you well know the NLSA was set up over the international tickets issue so you're wrong about being pushed around there.

Love to see you do "something" alright. Sincerely:D

Here's a tip: They dont listen to fans and never will. Their interest is in power and the international team. So you can bang on and on, like you always do, about weak spots and how you're the man to solve all Irish football problems despite the fact that you are a keyboard warrior but nothing will change until everyone in Merrion Square is removed.

LOL the suggestion that you know anything about those meetings.

Also press releases were issued and picked up. But then you wouldnt know about that living in blighty annoying its nice citizens through your well worn keyboard!

KOH
15/02/2007, 1:22 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Here's a tip: They dont listen to fans and never will. Their interest is in power and the international team. So you can bang on and on, like you always do, about weak spots and how you're the man to solve all Irish football problems despite the fact that you are a keyboard warrior but nothing will change until everyone in Merrion Square is removed.

Let me ask you this then NYH - with a defeatist attitude like that, why did you ever put yourself forward to be a leading member of the NLSA in the first place...? :confused:

If other people followed your attitude - we'd still have apartheid in South Africa, a 'protestant parliament for a protestant people' in Northern Ireland, women wouldn't have the vote - in fact Ireland would never have become an indepdendent nation in the first place !

All extreme examples I know - but examples non-the-less of where dramatically bigger changes were achieved against dramatically bigger odds by individuals who were faced with huge institutions that just didn't have any interest in their demands. The key difference is that, rather than just accept their lot in life - they went on to do something about changing it. Gandhi successfully fought the might of the biggest empire the world has ever seen with nothing more than a lion-cloth and passive resistance - and yet here you are telling me that it is simply impossible that Irish football fans could secure any sort of change out of the bunch of media-scared goons we have runninng the FAI......? :eek: :o

I had hoped the NLSA would over time evolve into a body with a similar philosophy of generating change through representation and pressure. Unfortunately I appear to have put way too much faith in its abilities....
15/02/2007, 1:33 PM
hoops1

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Let me ask you this then NYH - with a defeatist attitude like that, why did you ever put yourself forward to be a leading member of the NLSA in the first place...? :confused:

If other people followed your attitude - we'd still have apartheid in South Africa, a 'protestant parliament for a protestant people' in Northern Ireland, women wouldn't have the vote - in fact Ireland would never have become an indepdendent nation in the first place !

:eek: :rolleyes: Incredible nonsense
Or Maybe UK rule up the North
15/02/2007, 1:36 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Let me ask you this then NYH - with a defeatist attitude like that, why did you ever put yourself forward to be a leading member of the NLSA in the first place...? :confused:

If other people followed your attitude - we'd still have apartheid in South Africa, a 'protestant parliament for a protestant people' in Northern Ireland, women wouldn't have the vote - in fact Ireland would never have become an indepdendent nation in the first place !

All extreme examples I know - but examples non-the-less of where dramatically bigger changes were achieved against dramatically bigger odds by individuals who were faced with huge institutions that just didn't have any interest in their demands. The key difference is that, rather than just accept their lot in life - they went on to do something about changing it. Gandhi successfully fought the might of the biggest empire the world has ever seen with nothing more than a lion-cloth and passive resistance - and yet here you are telling me that it is simply impossible that Irish football fans could secure any sort of change out of the bunch of media-scared goons we have runninng the FAI......?

I had hoped the NLSA would over time evolve into a body with a similar philosophy of generating change through representation and pressure. Unfortunately I appear to have put way too much faith in its abilities....

ROFL!:D

Anyway good article by Maribor. Same applies for match programmes apparently. "Bringing the game into disrepute" rubbish.

KOH
15/02/2007, 1:44 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoops1

:eek: :rolleyes: Incredible nonsense
Or Maybe UK rule up the North

So women didn't get the vote then - is that what you're saying.....? :confused:
15/02/2007, 1:46 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

ROFL!:D

Anyway good article by Maribor. Same applies for match programmes apparently. "Bringing the game into disrepute" rubbish.

KOH

Nice avoidance of answering why you bothered to be a leading NLSA light with such a defeatist attitude NYH...

And still no response to my other previous questions re what the NLSA has been doing. Every time I ask you to explain what exactly the NLSA has been campaigning on and how, all i get is silence.

Is it any wonder Irish football is in such a mess when the only group of people free to openly complain about it - the fans - have a body claiming to represent them that just sits on its hands and does nothing. Does any one think fans would render themselves so impotent in England or elsewhere in Europe.....?
15/02/2007, 1:50 PM
OneRedArmy

Care to take this to PM lads?

I fear the incompetence of the FAI is in danger of being obstructed, which I think we'll all agree, wouldn't be a good thing.

NLSA failed because of lack of buy-in to a common agenda. Steve if you want to try something new, go right ahead.
15/02/2007, 1:51 PM
hoops1

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

So women didn't get the vote then - is that what you're saying.....? :confused:

Well your really asking two questions there to answer the first part you would really have to go back to 1914 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
15/02/2007, 1:56 PM
WeAreRovers

Lads, NY Hoop v dcfcsteve is more boring and irelevant than UCD v Longford on a wet Tuesday night. The enemy here are the FAI, pure and simple. NLSA was a joke - the fact that we were 'represented' by NY proves that ;) - but it's time to move on and really put the boot into the Merrion Sq mandarins.

KOH
15/02/2007, 2:00 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Nice avoidance of answering why you bothered to be a leading NLSA light with such a defeatist attitude NYH...

And still no response to my other previous questions re what the NLSA has been doing. Every time I ask you to explain what exactly the NLSA has been campaigning on and how, all i get is silence.

Is it any wonder Irish football is in such a mess when the only group of people free to openly complain about it - the fans - have a body claiming to represent them that just sits on its hands and does nothing. Does any one think fans would render themselves so impotent in England or elsewhere in Europe.....?

But you said you knew everything?! Yeah its the fans fault alright. Read what I said previously. Does anyone care what you think?

Were you a bully in school?:D What's the colour of the sky in your world? Do you like being obsessed?

KOH
15/02/2007, 2:02 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Lads, NY Hoop v dcfcsteve is more boring and irelevant than UCD v Longford on a wet Tuesday night. The enemy here are the FAI, pure and simple. NLSA was a joke - the fact that we were 'represented' by NY proves that ;) - but it's time to move on and really put the boot into the Merrion Sq mandarins.

KOH

ROFL!

Arise steve, gandhi and maxi!

KOH
15/02/2007, 2:05 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

ROFL!

Arise steve, gandhi and maxi!

KOH

And still the shameless question dodging continues. Says it all really.
15/02/2007, 2:06 PM
Macy

Any organisation is only as strong as it's membership. That is the reason the NLSA "failed". It came out of Delaney screwing the supporters tickets, so it was inevitable there would be some cooling off when this issue was sorted, and trying to find common ground to unite fans of various clubs.

It's like people moaning about their Unions - if you don't like the way it's being run or how you're being represented get off your feckin arse and get heavily involved to shape how it does business. Or putting it another way, put up or shut up.

Steve, you've spent the guts of a thread attacking a group of volunteers who made an effort in the spare time. It's no wonder they got peed off with it with the attitudes that this being prevalent...
15/02/2007, 2:07 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Lads, NY Hoop v dcfcsteve is more boring and irelevant than UCD v Longford on a wet Tuesday night. The enemy here are the FAI, pure and simple. NLSA was a joke - the fact that we were 'represented' by NY proves that ;) - but it's time to move on and really put the boot into the Merrion Sq mandarins.

KOH

Hear hear. PM me if you're interested WAR.
15/02/2007, 2:09 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

And still the shameless question dodging continues. Says it all really.

Yes sir! Is there a part of "read my previous post" that is not getting through?

Anyway it looks like some journos are beginning to see the light. More of the same please.

KOH
15/02/2007, 2:15 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

Steve, you've spent the guts of a thread attacking a group of volunteers who made an effort in the spare time. It's no wonder they got peed off with it with the attitudes that this being prevalent...

Firstly - I was one of those volunteers myself, and would have remained so had geography not worked against me. I put a considerable amount of time and effort into the NLSA at the start. I'm not saying that in expectation of a Blue Peter badge - but rather to show that your implying that I'm just a knocker is waaaaay off the mark.

Secondly - any representative body that doesn't fulfill its role has every right to be challenged. Errr - that's what representation is all about ! Look back over what has been written. I haven't criticised the NLSA merely for the sake of it - I've been specific in my criticism, and suggested alternative ways they could've worked. If you look at their responses in return, they're long on personal abuse and obtuse-ness, and short on accountability and answers. At least NYH has the balls to actually respond on the issue - there's a number of other NLSA reps ho are rgulars on this forum who are reading this and shuffling uncomfortably in their seats, without the nerves to stand-up and be counted.

Anyways - upwards and onwards. The NLSA's approach hasn't worked, so time to try alternatives.
15/02/2007, 2:20 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Yes sir! Is there a part of "read my previous post" that is not getting through?

There is actually. Err - the fact that your 6 previous posts on this thread have not answered my questions ? :rolleyes:

So here they are again, nice and simple :

- Please list what campaigns the NLSA actively worked on and how.
- Please explain why you put yourself forward as head of the NLSA if you have such a fatalistic attitude towards its chances of success ?

Two very straight-forward questions.

Looking forward to your response. PM me if you like, to save everyone else the tedium.
15/02/2007, 2:30 PM
harpskid

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

. At least NYH has the balls to actually respond on the issue - there's a number of other NLSA reps ho are rgulars on this forum who are reading this and shuffling uncomfortably in their seats, without the nerves to stand-up and be counted.

If I had the time I'd argue with you. Unfortunately i've more pressing issues to deal with!
15/02/2007, 2:54 PM
Bald Student

This is distracting from the original topic so feel free to split it, whomever is in charge but the main reason the NLSA failed was a severe lack of interest and membership. This time last year when we were setting up we called public meetings to discuss the NLSA itself and the league merger (which was the biggest issue at the time) and very few people showed up. We sent out membership forms to the supporters clubs and very few signed up either as clubs or individuals. We put the forms up here and on different websites with the same result.

If I deserve any criticism for not really knowing what I was doing then I don't mind that, I'm not the gentle type but with noone else getting involved myself and the other lads did what we thought was best.

It's difficult to put yourself forward as a representative organisation when only about 10 or so people are activly involved but we carried on anyway and generated a reasonable amount of publicity surrounding what we saw as the flaws in the Genesis Report and the league merger proposals. The hope was that more people would join up during the year but it never happened and at the end of the day we were getting nowhere.

One one point, I do think it's unfair to criticise NY Hoop for getting involved. It's not as though he was taking someone elses place. Had he not signed up it would have just ment one less person giving it a try.

If someone else thinks they can do a job in some other way, I wish them well and I'm happy to help.
15/02/2007, 2:55 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

There is actually. Err - the fact that your 6 previous posts on this thread have not answered my questions ? :rolleyes:

So here they are again, nice and simple :

- Please list what campaigns the NLSA actively worked on and how.
- Please explain why you put yourself forward as head of the NLSA if you have such a fatalistic attitude towards its chances of success ?

Two very straight-forward questions.

Looking forward to your response. PM me if you like, to save everyone else the tedium.

You're joking? Read the website like I said before. I was never head of anything. Others were more actively involved. PM them.

Time of the month is it?

Let. It. Go.

KOH
15/02/2007, 3:02 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Another NLSA Rep who just doesn't get the concept of how to run a pressure group...... :rolleyes:

You do realise that I have never been a member of the NLSA, let alone a rep? Please take better care to read usernames, I'm not Pineapple Stu.
15/02/2007, 6:00 PM
fbtn

No harm Steve, but for one you are distracting from what the real issue here is and that is this censorship that is been forced on everyone from Delaney.

Secondly, your bickering may put people off, including ex-NLSA members, from joining any kind of action you have in mind.

One of the biggest days in the FAI's history is coming up next month. Just a hunch but it may be an idea to focus on that.
15/02/2007, 9:54 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

You do realise that I have never been a member of the NLSA, let alone a rep? Please take better care to read usernames, I'm not Pineapple Stu.

Apologies PS.

I was lead to believe that you UCD fans all share libidos.... ;)
18/02/2007, 5:40 PM
A face

I split this stuff into a new thread lads.
18/02/2007, 8:24 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

I split this stuff into a new thread lads.

A bit late though, to be fair A Face.

Time has moved on - both on this debate, and on the NLSA.
19/02/2007, 1:08 PM
Mr_T

By the way, a huge thankyou to NY Hoop and DCFCSteve from the Insomniacs Association of Ireland who will now be reccomending this thread to all their members. :p
19/02/2007, 7:36 PM
A face

How many members does the NLSA have right now?