Agree on this, we're dazzled by the novelty effect, Kilbane in particular suffers from this. Notice how no-one has criticised McShane for the goal, if O'Shea had done that he'd be crucified.
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Agree on this, we're dazzled by the novelty effect, Kilbane in particular suffers from this. Notice how no-one has criticised McShane for the goal, if O'Shea had done that he'd be crucified.
I understand what you're sayin to a point but the newer members of the squad you have to allow for inexperience etc.
On McShane, I wouldnt particularly blame him for the goal, if you look at the replay he wouldve got the ball first but got a shout from henderson and moved to the side, so imo it was more hendersons fault for the goal than McShane.
In all fairness Long was making his senior International debut (albeit against san Marino) the more experienced players should have helped him along like. This thread is very harsh on Long IMO
Untested players are always overhyped for Ireland. The idea is that we know that certain players aren't great so there's always a huge clamour to replace them with every flavour of the month who puts in a handful of decent performances, on the off-chance that they might be the new Brady or something - better the devil you don't know.:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
Long and McShane had one bad performance and due to their age are likely to improve given time. Keane and O'Shea have put in so many bad performances I've long since lost count.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry The Saint
Probably the most sensible thing I have ever seen in print. Spot on and very accurate in this instance.
I think its unfair to put Keane in with O Shea, I dont think I can think of one good game that O Shea has ever played for Ireland, not one, possibly at home to the Czech but he was at fault for the goal. Keane is our record top scorer who is going through some bad form at the moment and should have the captaincy taken from him and given to Richard Dunne.
It was IMO too early for Long to make his debut.At the same time it would be very harsh to say he was the problem.Robbie plays a bit deeper and at this stage of his career should have enough nous to unlock a defense that conceded 13 goals in one game.
I have made similar comments in other threads. The Irish psyche is to turn on your own the minute things start getting difficult and to find scapecoats. Robbie is the current scapecoat and there is little criticism of the other 10 players on the pitch (e.g. Carsley who continually went back to take the ball off the back four as 11 San Marino players watched on the other half of the pitch).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
I thought both Long and Keane were absolutely honking. I despair of Keane most of the time but Long deserved equal criticism the last day. He looked completely lost, frustrated and out of his depth. I personally don't think he is up to much and cannot see him making the grade at Reading. He shouldn't have started ahead of Stokes either.
Keane on the other hand is the most frustrating player I have seen in a long time. Since the 2002 world cup, all I have seen him do is wave his arms in the air and bitch to referees and linesmen. His goal scoring recoerd against decent opposition leaves a lot to be desired and he is obviously not a captain.
As for criticism, the team as a whole should get it, rather than picking out certain players. The team should take the brunt of the flack before the manager or the FAI. Afterall, when nine premiership players, a la liga player and a championship player line out against 195th best team in the world, it shouldn't require the most tactically astute manager in Europe.
They need to get a grip soon or else we'll soon be fourth or fifth seeds in the pot in the coming championships.
Hello by the way
I'd be biased to the younger players aswell given the performances the more "established" players have put in for us over the last five years...
Very harsh on Long and McShane.
The more "established and experienced" players need to take the criticism on the chin and respond accordingly.
Irish fans have tolerated a litany of abject performances from John O'Shea before any criticsim was levelled his way.
The only advice the Captain Keane could offer to Long was to "Enjoy Himself". I'd say that pearl of wisdom really stood Long in good stread as Keane dropped off deep and left Long to run the channels all evening.
Lets not forget that McShane had a great game against the Czechs. The San Marino goal was a comedy of errrors also involving Henderson and Dunne.
Incidently did anyone see the picture of the team as they were lining up for the anthems, Long was ****ing on himself. He can be forgiven for one poor performance, but he is a kid that is still very much finding his feet at international level. With a fully fit Reading squad he would be doing well to get in the 16 man squad. He needs time
I wondered about the selection of Carsley and what the need was to play a holding midfielder in front of the back 4 against SM. Excessive caution or justQuote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
using the game to establish the shape for games to come?
I think the latter and also you should play the correct way and then when you are a few goals up maybe bring on a few different players then but you should always start the game in the corect manner. Carsley played at home to San Marino and came off when we were well up. This would have been the plan from Staunton, (thats if he had one) but it failed miserably.
What is the "correct way" when a team have 11 players deep in their half? I don't think it is having a holding midfielder come back and take the ball off the centre half to then play it out to the left full. There was also no Plan (b) when the "correct way" didn't work. 3-4-3 should have been reverted to quickly (20 minutes) in that game or something similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
I don't really think that changing the formation would have made a differnece. the back four were passing it around and seemed to break very slowly. the full backs were walking or standing still with the ball most of the time letting SM reorganise themselves so that we couldn't find any channels to pass it into. It was completely the gameplan in my opinion, and a change of formation wouldn't have helped one bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
There was nobody else to play instead of Carlsey though. Andy Reid was who we needed. Someone to sit in midfield is always needed if you want to play good passing football but Carlsey wasn't suited as he hasn't got a great range of passing. It was up to Ireland to be the creative man but he didn't play well at all imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I've had high hopes for Ireland and , lets face it, he got the team out of jail with the winner in San Marino.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
He hasn't imposed himself on the Irish games as yet. He will never dominate physically but his ability to pick a pass, keep passing moves going and pop up for the odd goal are his forte. Still potential there.
A stay of execution more like it, team and manager are still in the dock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Does anyone recall the formation Germany used against San Marino? I found it a bit odd to play 4 at the back + Carsley. I would have left Harte out and played 5 in the midfield adding Hunt or Quinn.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
According to http://www.soccerbase.com/results3.sd?gameid=496937 , the line up was:
Lehmann
Jansen ,Friedrich ,Lahm
Schweinsteiger ,Frings (Hitzlsperger ,62 ) ,Ballack (Odonkor ,46 ) ,Schneider ,Friedrich
Klose (Asamoah ,46 ) ,Podolski
so 3-5-2, from that midfield, I'd guess Schneider probably played the holding role. I honestly don't know, but it's hard to imagine anyone else in that line up playing it!
isnt Frings a holding midfielder? He looks like a tough ******* anyway
Yeah Frings is their holding midfielder but he has a good range of passing. I'm sure Lahm and Jansen were getting forward a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Spot on. Its all well and good saying the team collectively should share responsiblity and its kind of true to a point. But certain players and they're the senior ones are there to provide the leadership and direction and in this instance they didn't. Long may not have played well but people have said that, but what you've got to accept is that is was his debut and he was introduced into a shambles of a team. I'd find it harsh to critcise any of the younger players.
And as for McShane being at fault for the goal.... it was clear that Henderson called for it. McShane did the right thing.