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Who is Irelands oldest football club Cliftonville were formed in 1879 but on Limavady Uniteds crest it was 1876 and on Wikipedia it says
andQuote:
The club hails from Limavady, County Londonderry and was formed in 1884 following the amalgamation of Limavady Alexander and Wanderers. The club currently play their home matches at The Showgrounds.
So are Cliftonville the oldest?Quote:
Full name Limavady United Football Club
Nickname(s) "The Roesiders"
Founded 1878
Please don't start Mr Parker. They will claim they are the oldest.
Limavady are the oldest.
I think its athlone. Not 100% on that though
Only if they were 10 years older.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louth4sam
I think the argument is that Limavady are not the same club as the ones that started then.
I think we can be sure Mr P will fill us in on the details!
Ack, sure I'll just dig out some of his posts on ILF to save him the hassle!
Here's a thread where the debate is had: http://www.irishleagueforums.net/for...t+club+irelandQuote:
Alexander CRICKET Club, forerunner to Alexander FOOTBALL club, forerunner to limavady FOOTBALL club, forerunner to limavady united FOOTBALL club
See the subtle difference there
If you want a laugh go to the Limavady official site and read their history so full of contradictions and twists.
Try these bangorglen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliftonville_F.C.
http://www.proni.gov.uk/records/non_dept/football.htm
And a few of the rest....
http://kildare.ie/Education/sports/S...er-history.asp
http://experts.about.com/e/q/qu/Queens_Park_F.C..htm
The argument is they were a cricket club who became a football club but Cliftonville seem to think they didn't become the Limavady football club we know today before they became a club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galway Harps
Ach ffs not again!
I do not intend to go on at length about this again. If you want to read it in detail read the thread on ILF on the link provided above and the numerous other ones too. Bottom line is that Cliftonville Football Club are the founders of association football in Ireland in 1879. There is ample historical evidence in old newspapers, match programmes, fixture lists, photographs etc etc etc. On the other hand nothing has ever been provided showing similar for Limavady United. All the evidence points to a club called Limavady United being formed in 1884. Even after that there is a huge gap in any records until the 1960's.
I will claim nothing. I will state facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by David
125 years of Glentoran Fc this year - with a huge amount of events organised and loads of literature published.
9th June, 7th October are just two momentous dates this year.
Other clubs offer cheese'n'pickles, we just prefer to be trailblazers.
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Interior
Athlone are the oldest senior league club in the Republic. 1887.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louth4sam
Surely you mean freefallers!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Interior
if Limavady United are the oldest" who did they play:rolleyes:
Can't recall, how did your 125 go?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Parker
Asides from the fight against relegation:p
Fight against relegation? :confused: I think you will find that we finished 11th in our 125th season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Interior
I thought Limavady was the oldest, is this a new claim by Cliftonville? ;)
Yawn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifcp1
Hope I'm not too late to join in discussion, but may I contribute and share some info. I have an interst inthe history and development of soccer in Ireland, find it a fascinating subject (ok keep the wise cracks to yourselves).
I myself wondered if the records could be wrong in respect of Limavady 1876. If you can follow me, believe this is the story.
No doubt Cliftonville are the oldest club in respect of their well documented beginings and that of the Irish FA(Iinvite for exhib match that lead to their formation and eventually formation of IFA 1880 ETC). As for Limavady the Newtown Limavady (as town was then known) Cricket Club was founded in 1876. 1880 they form football club (as so many did to keep fit in winter) and took name Alexander FC ( after either a pub landlord or pub- think it is Main Street across road from Jane Ross House of "Danny Boy". Think it was landlord and pub named after him.), appear as records show in 2 early IFA Cup finals. Obviously due to popularity 2nd club is formed, but due to size of town they consolodate and unite to give LUFC as known today. I would put their football club formation as 1880.
Do not forget Cliftonville was also formed by members of an existing Cricket Club as was Distillery fc. They could inturn claim the year of formation of the cricket club whenever that was. Though note in last years Bel Tele annual gives mention to Ulster FC (early soccer pioneers) as follows "Ulster Rugby and Association Football Club founded 1877. I interperate that as club as rugby club formed 1877 soccer section formed 1879. Though hard to believe all records state no soccer played in Ireland before 1879. Rugby was well established. The main split between the 2 codes was over 10 years old and both codes seem to have become well established in Britain yet Ireland only rugby and only formative GAA. Surely soccer could'nt have been unheard of ?Coleraine claim that soccer was played by visiting ships crews in 1860's.
A problem with charting Irish club histories is that in a lot of cases clubs come and go and some towns have dormant periods (and we can guess why) were no soccer is played.
From info gathered in addition to those who formed in IFA in 1880 there were clubs or soccer played in Banbridge,Dundonald,Queens Island,and Tullamore though first and last examples believe it was schools.
Some club formations do seem to be mis-leading eg Portadown 1924, yet Mid-Ulster Cup lists show Portadown winning in 1890's.
For those who are still with me(and not bored) the following may be of interest:- Castlederg IFA Cup semi-finalist's 1881/82, Strabane IFA Cup Q/Finalists 1882/83. Dergview as we know only some 20 years old, but could Strabane FC claim there formation to 1882 ?
As for what is now the Republic oldest clubs are given as 1883 for Dublin Uni. & Dublin Association, Bohs(1890) for years claimed to be the oldest senior club, and Shelbourne(1895) the oldest proffesional club.. Though well acknowledged that Athlone pre-date them with 1887. However their neighbours Castlerea predate them with 1886. For a while I thought it may have been1882 as per book on Athlone history with an early game agaisnt Castlrea as formed by same founder some 5 years earlier(1887-5) however recently received info states Castlerea founded .1886 that makes me think book should read 5 months not 5 years. What is of interest is I believe Glasnevin FC have recently celebrated 125 years, putting formation circa 1882, though have no evidence suspect they may be a thread and connection to Dublin Association Fc.
One thing that does puzzle me, often said that transportation was a hinderance to the spread of soccer through Ireland, though it did'nt seem to hamper the GAA in its formative years with early All-Irland finals-just a thought and observation
More than willing to share and discuss info with those who have similar interest.
I have never seen a reference to Cliftonville FC being formed by members of the Cricket Club. The Cricket club was founded in 1870.Quote:
Do not forget Cliftonville was also formed by members of an existing Cricket Club as was Distillery fc. They could inturn claim the year of formation of the cricket club whenever that was.
Alexander was the name of the mill in the village and that is where the name comes from. There is also a major gap in 'their' history which seems to be unaccounted for.Quote:
As for Limavady the Newtown Limavady (as town was then known) Cricket Club was founded in 1876. 1880 they form football club (as so many did to keep fit in winter) and took name Alexander FC ( after either a pub landlord or pub- think it is Main Street across road from Jane Ross House of "Danny Boy". Think it was landlord and pub named after him.), appear as records show in 2 early IFA Cup finals. Obviously due to popularity 2nd club is formed, but due to size of town they consolodate and unite to give LUFC as known today. I would put their football club formation as 1880.
Could well be wrong, but note the following- "The 3rd ground of the Cliftonville Cricket Club nr. Oldpark Ave, was used for the opening games of football, the first being against Quidnuncs(rugby players) 27/09/1879." Source M. Brodies History of the Irish Football League 1890-1990.
2 Early clubs often had their origins in existing sporting or social organisation eg Knock FC - Lacrosse. "Similarly the Cliftonville club was founded by 'several members of the C(LIFTONVILLE) C(ricket) C(lub)' who were 'ardent admirers of the association game'. source 'Association Football and society in pre-partition Ireland' by Neal Garnham(2004)
The story of the beginning of soccer in Ireland re the John Mc Mcalery honeymoon story, invite for exhibition game, request for those interested for formation of C. FC. is well recorded. But above also suggests a very close link to the earlier formed Cricket Club. Let me pose a question- why was the name Cliftonville chosen ? it hints of connection to Cricket Club- Any thoughts or comments Mr Parker ?
Mr Parker
There is a story re club being named after pub landlord of that name. Think Pub later named after him, there is a pub by that name in Main Street Limavady. There are loads of examples of clubs in Ireland whose history is intermittant, but dont forget the N.West FA is not the best documented FA, in respect of tournements under its juridiction eg NW League, NW Junior Cup. A Limavady team lost to Strabane in the 47/48 NW Junior final. Possibly a Limavady fan could add more. Am actually persuing info on NW FA, will notify re findings. I do not dispute CFC oldest club, but also wondered re Limavady stating 1876. Just posted my thoughts and observations. Strange that re your history no book published or am I wrong ?
It is always a dangerous thing to take Malcom Brodies books as correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by historynut
Anyway I am not saying that there was no connection with members of the Cricket Club founding the Football Club, just that I had not seen anything to confirm it. As for close relations between the two, yes that was always the case, though since the Cricket Club merged with Greencastle in 1979 they have lessened.
There was a booklet published in 1979 of which I have a copy. The author was to publish a book but had his briefcase containing much of his research stolen just before publication was due.Quote:
Originally Posted by historynut
Alexander C.C. were named after their benefactor but I had always associated him with the Alexander Mill in the village.
Not a great source but this wikipedia reference states that Limivady were formed in 1884 following a merger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limavady_United_F.C.
Though other refences I recall point to this being the formation of Limavady FC. Limavady "United" seem to have come about at a later date.Quote:
The club hails from Limavady, County Londonderry and was formed in 1884 following the amalgamation of Limavady Alexander and Wanderers. The club currently play their home matches at The Showgrounds.
Mr Parker,
Take it booklet refers to CFC, are there copies still available (though I doubt it!) ? Shame about theft of briefcase sure would have been interesting read.
Have another quote re CC connection, but will only post if you request. Think we can agree that CC members were involved in CFC formation in 1879.
Re Limavady, pretty confident current club thread goes back to earliest club.It is an amalgamation of Alexander (older and senior) and Wanderers (newer club). Who knows whenever prefix United added. Loads of examples of clubs being amalgamations but keeping formation of earlier club. If you are suggesting that club has definatly been dormant do we only take their formation date as their reformation date.? Believe we are splitting hairs on that and the same could apply to N.Ireland clubs that closed down during WW2.
There is no doubt that the town has one of Irelands finest soccer heritage. Their club as a soccer club goes back to 1880, and are not the oldest club in Ireland as was the original question posted, but were original members on its formation of the IFA along with 7 others in 1880.
No copies left but I have sent you a PM. As for the quote please post it. As I said I am happy if there is such a tie as it means I can use it to "beat up" a few Limavady supporters on ILF with it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by historynut
I am happy to accept your take on that for now but I do recall reading somewhere that one of the merger to found Limavady United did not involve clubs who had emerged from direct links to Alexander. I can't recall where but if I ever find it I will come back to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by historynut
Mr Parker,
Thanks for PM, please confirm you got my reply.
Interesting statement re current Lim Utd being an amalgamation of 2 clubs not connected to original Alexander/Limavady team. Could be a new ball game. Certainly would be intersting to read if you can refind that info.
1999 saw the reprint of a R.M.Peter's Irish Football Annual of 1880 with an introduction by the before mentioned Neal Garnham. The 1880 annual is more of a Rugby annual with a section on the newly introduced game of soccer.
The SFA IN 1876/77 had tried to set up exhibition games in Ireland, but had no joy with Rugby clubs for use of their grounds and matter dropped.In 1878 connection made with Ulster CC, and first exhibition game played at their grounds on 24/10/1878 by Scotish clubs Queens Park & Caledonian. In the spring of 1879 Lenzie FC came over and played a select XI, local rugby players interested in the new game. This leads to cfc formation.-will continue with new post
quote from book (though reduced).
Following that game, it was difficult to establish an Association club as all available grounds were occupied by rugby clubs; "but the CCC having leased a new ground adjoining the Antrim Rd, and prepared for the summer of 1879,an opportunity presented itselfwhich was not lost sight of, and several members of the CCC, being ardent admirers of the new game,,all obstacles were speedily overcome, and early in the autumn of 1879, the Cliftonville club was formed, being the first Association club in Ireland". Can forward details of book, if you want to pursue a copy. Assure you its a fascinating read.
When you confirm receipt of PM, let me know your e-mail, as I have some questions re the Olympic (dont fall off your chair- yes the Olmpic !) believe your reserves. which is'nt appropriate for this thread. Also give us details re ILF