Hartlepool or City?

Murphy staying with the ’Pool

Cork lad Brian Barry Murphy has had his loan spell with Division Three leaders Hartlepool United extended for another month.

Barry Murphy has impressed during his spell with United thus far and is thrilled to have had the extention to his loan deal rubberstamped by Preston boss Craig Brown.

He moved to Hartlepool to get some first-team experience and has been a key performer in a surge that has seen them move four points clear at the summit of the Nationwide League’s basement division.

The player - who sports one of the most famous surnames in Cork sporting history - said: "I am delighted to be staying another month. My loan got extended after Saturday’s match. The previous manager brought me here and I didn’t know what the situation would be once he left."

We could do with him on the Right hand side couldnt we? i always though he was a good player. BL should offer him a good contract and see if he'll come home.

You'd like to think he'll come home, next season would be great. Surely he's better off playing for City in front of decent crowds and pushing for honours than languishing at the wrong end of English football. He's a very good player and did well for city so here's hoping...

Hopefully more players will come back to City, since it appears from the outside that they are making progress.

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Originally posted by Pablo
We could do with him on the Right hand side couldnt we? i always though he was a good player. BL should offer him a good contract and see if he'll come home.

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Well, seeing as he is almost completely left-footed that may not be the best option if he ever returns to City...:)

Donie

If I'm not mistaken BBM has two left feet and is equally capable of playing either wing... burp

If I had the choice of playing for hartlepool or city, it would definitely have to be hartlepool. May not be the popular choice but there you go. I'd say most of our squad would feel the same.
Theyve a good chance of playing div 2 football next season.

In any case, Im sure Brian (and all our ex players) know that if things dont work out there is ALWAYS a place for him in the city squad - sure why not stay in English football as long as possible.

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Originally posted by foureyes
sure why not stay in English football as long as possible.

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dead right - where did norwegian players get by staying at home
huh - the champions league. they could be playing with chesterfield if they had played their cards right.

sure crowe has only been capped by ireland and is going to the play in the champions league.
you're so right!!!

Oirish and proud!!!!!!!!!

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Originally posted by eoinh
[B]dead right - where did norwegian players get by staying at home
huh - the champions league. they could be playing with chesterfield if they had played their cards right.

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Rosenborg are the only norweigan team to do well in europe, since they buy all the best players in norway. So should all the best city players go to bohs?

We cant compare ourselves to Norway anyway so thats not an issue.

Why do you think these players ALL want to go to the English leagues? Crowe has already been over and didnt make it which is the main reason he hasnt gone back - yet. Noel Hunt will be next to go. Houlihan wont stay much longer at Shels. Its known that O'Flynn wants to go back.

No matter how well a player does in this league it is nothing compared to doing well, even in the English third division. Rightly or wrongly most managers in Britain feel the standard here is of conference level, and with the exception of one of two clubs I think they are correct.

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sure crowe has only been capped by ireland and is going to the play in the champions league.
you're so right!!!

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In a friendly with a temporary manager. In the qualifying rounds.
Yes, I do believe that Bohs have a chance of making it to the champions league if they get a favourable draw.

But Bohs are light years ahead of us in every respect.

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Originally posted by foureyes


We cant compare ourselves to Norway anyway so thats not an issue

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Why cant we? We should be doing what Norway, Denmark and Israel all have done in recent years. All small countries like ourselves.

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Why do you think these players ALL want to go to the English leagues? Crowe has already been over and didnt make it which is the main reason he hasnt gone back - yet

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I think Crowe has learned his lesson. Only go if a big club comes (primiership or big first division team) is it in your interest to go over. clubs should be demanding big money if they do go over.


you're not a failure if you dont go to England.

with the financial crisis in the english first, second and third divisions at present i reckon you're going to see more players coming home. most english clubs now by the time wages are paid are already in debt.

this is one of my fav sites and it gives a good indication of how leagues are doing in Europe. look at how some small small countries are doing
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/crank03.html

BTW Heres an experiment: everybody here who contributes to this thread list the 5 players who you think will go over to england within the year. I bet no one will get it right. In other words list the 5 best players in the league. It would be interesting to resurrect the thread again in 1 year to see who is still here and playing. You'll be surprised!!!

Agree with you there. There's is no way of predicting who'll be here next year or not.
I'll be surprised if John O'Flynn is still here though. As Gunther said at the forum, his motivation for his career is to get back to England, with a Div One of Premiership club.

Question for Four Eyes

I just want to ask ..... Do you think that our National League can develope into something more that it is/has been ??

The reason i ask is because you come across as if you are of a certain school of thought, and that is that our league will always remain the same and that it is inevitable that players will leave and go elsewhere for greener pastures.

Do you not think that the league can progress into something better and that standard could rise and we could give our european conterparts a bit more competiton. Do you not think that someday we could have people like yourself who compare our league to the English league and put us on parr with 1st and 2nd Div. clubs.

Please reply as i am curious as to what you'll say.

just on the subject of hartlepool, there´s a story on soccercentral.ie- Kevin Sheedy is now assistant manager there.

[SIZE=1]*another useless fact*[/SIZE] :)

BBM is now back at Preston - he played in their 3-0 defeat at Ipswich yesterday - his second appearance since returning to Deepdale.

In my opinion as far as standard of football goes Ireland is on a par with Division 2 in England.

Facilities are conference and worse.

Refereeing is a disgrace, everything that I've seen in England is better than here.

One big thing that Irish footballers have going against them is that it for the most part is a part time league, the only way we'll ever advance is by going full time.

Yes, I believe the league can progress, clubs like bohs and to a lesser extent shels are leading the way in this respect.

However, I dont think structures are in place for the league to progress as a whole at the moment. Until there is adequate tv coverage, there simply won't be enough interest in the league from the general public to allow it to progress at the moment. The standard is quite low at the moment in comparison to what the Irish public are used to seeing (although the introduction of live scottish football will lower that standard).

Added to that, with the exception of the two clubs mentioned, the other clubs are basically amateur outfits, we don't have to look beyond our our doorstep to see this.

I believe if a concerted effort was made by everyone involved in the league it could go places but that doesnt seem to be happening just now.

One idea I think all clubs should adopt is having players visiting local schoolboy clubs and school teams and doing a couple of hours of training with them. I know this happens on a small scale, but it should be happening ALL the time in EVERY possible club/school. A large problem with the league is the belief of the public that it is full of crap players, the 'id be better than them myself' attitude unfortunately does exist.

Were schoolkids to have an opportunity to kick around with these guys they would go home thinking 'those guys were class', an interest would be generated among the youth and in time the league would reap the rewards, plus immediate rewards of bigger crowds etc. I think its long term plans like these that the league needs to focus on if it is to progress.

i agree with foureyes. the team should come out and visit my school. im sure it would go done well with everyone. the team should visit very school in the city like the lord mayor does. would everyone agree.

Foureyes .... you just answered my question, cheers mate .... but your solution means i have to wait 20 fcukin' years man.

Can you doin anything about the time scale side of things. :rolleyes:

Man you'd want to check yourself out !!

Your entitled to be a pesimist, that is you own look out. But least you could do is get thing a bit more accurate (*Note i did not say inaccurate !!*) The way you us all thinkin' is that the league is like a Sunday school boy league.

And you said earlier that we cant compare our league to Norway. Listen mate, i dont know if you meant it or not, but your comments smack of you comparing our league to the english league, No .... in actual fact .... YOU DID. While on that topic ... can you give me a few examples of what we should be comparing our league to, and maybe reasons why.

** Waiting to be enlightened **


:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by UCD_4_Life
In my opinion as far as standard of football goes Ireland is on a par with Division 2 in England.

Facilities are conference and worse.

Refereeing is a disgrace, everything that I've seen in England is better than here.

One big thing that Irish footballers have going against them is that it for the most part is a part time league, the only way we'll ever advance is by going full time.

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And I reckon that the Second and Third Divisions in England may be soon be forced into part-time set-ups themselves - so what do we have to lose by pushing for full-time outfits

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Originally posted by Seanie
And I reckon that the Second and Third Divisions in England may be soon be forced into part-time set-ups themselves - so what do we have to lose by pushing for full-time outfits

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might not be the intended sense of the saying but "England´s difficulty is Ireland´s opportunity" :D

Im taking an obvious risk here by not spending the afternoon doing research on football development in norway, but I simply don't have the time. Feel free to correct me on what follows

However I believe the norweigan FA put in place a ten year plan* to improve its football from grassroots level right up to the national team, and it took at least that long to have an impact.

The reasons I dont think we can compare ourselves AT THE MOMENT to the norweigan leagues as are follows:

* because they have spent these years improving the league through a variety of measures
* but MAINLY because they dont have a top, established league an hours flight away. There was a time when norweigan players would play in the swedish league but the difference in scale is much smaller than between the irish and english leagues. There are scouts from a host of english clubs in ireland, so the majority of our best young players are going to be snapped up. Rosenborg in particular adopt this strategy in norway, the obvious difference being they are a norweigan club.

So no, I dont think the situations are comparable. However were I to be a regular viewer of norweigan football then of course I would be prepared to compare the STANDARD of football.

Its all very well you casting your eyes to heaven and implying that Im living in some fantasy world where league football in Ireland is of a fairly low standard overall, but I happen to think it is.

You asked me if I believed the league could progress and I said that I think it could; I offered the above suggestion as a genuine idea to improve the league in the long term. I dont pretend to have all the answers, thats why the people in the FAI get paid to develop and implement plans.

The best short term thing I can see is to get an irish league club playing in the champions league and I do believe this is doable within as few as 3 years. If it meant the best players in the league playing for one club (at the moment bohs seem the best run club) then I think it would be worth it, as it would raise the profile of the league, generate interest and cash, etc the benefits are huge.

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Originally posted by foureyes
The best short term thing I can see is to get an irish league club playing in the champions league and I do believe this is doable within as few as 3 years. If it meant the best players in the league playing for one club (at the moment bohs seem the best run club) then I think it would be worth it, as it would raise the profile of the league, generate interest and cash, etc the benefits are huge.

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Am I alone in thinking that Bohs getting to the Champions League could potentially be the worst thing that could happen to the league? On the face of it the increased exposure of the league in general would be a good thing, but long term they would be so far in front financially that we might as well pack in.... At the moment we have a competitive league, which with better marketing by the FAI (a budget would be a start) and the clubs it could progress.... Bohs get to the Group stages, and we end up with the situation of Norway where Rosenberg are pretty much guaranteed the title every year, with Bohs simply getting in match practice for the big games....

any of the Scandanavian countries are an example. Take Danish football. They share a border with Germany. Very few or no one supports German football in Denmark. Result - danish clubs do fairly ok in euro competitions and i think Brondby have reached the champions league.
Denamrk won the european championship with six home based players in thier team.
Kim Vilfort was a schoolteacher (and was the danes player of the tournament) and played at home.
AS for Rosenbourg, they are losing their grip in Norway. The entire Norewgian game has benefitted, better stadiums, higher standards. ive been to branns stadium, rosenborgs and bodo/glimt. All are way higher than we have here. We should be at their level. Ild say Rosenborg wont win the next norwegian league championship. thier dominance if anything has helped football in norway. you always need to aim at something......

btw comparisions between here and norway are valid because 1. they have a strong interest in english football and 2. other sports in norway like ski jumping, biathelon, speed skating and downhill as well as ice hockey all have huge followings, which makes it like here in regard to GAA/rugby..

Bohs/shels raising the standrad at the top should encourage other clubs to rasie also.

While getting to the CL group would mean Bohs could snap up all the best talent in the country there still only so many players they can have in their squad & a lot of players wouldn't join as not like sitting on the bench.

Besides i think an't a hope of an irish club getting through 3 qualifying rounds & into the group stages in the next 5 let alone 3 years...

there is a danger that bohs would be way out in front but I think it´s worth the risk:
1. It would improve seedings for ALL irish clubs meaning better draws in europe
2. it would put irish football on the map, and would entice more players to come here and young fellas to stay here.
3. it would provide an impetus for other clubs to catch them up.
4. it might awaken football "Fans" in this country to that potential thats been on our doorsteps for years.
5. Maybe the likes of dermot desmond and john courtenay (And all the other extremely rich people in ireland) might look in their front garden instead of to britain when deciding to flog a fortune at a team.

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Originally posted by scottyshedender
Remember the NL is following what Norweigen footie is doing, the summer season and all, didnt we send an official over there to analyse it a few years back...

The main difference(I can only comment on sWEDISH Footie) is that players are sold for millions...ie Zlatan Ibrahimovic £6 million to Ajax) Stefen Selakovic to Heerneveen 5 Million, Anders Andersson, John Carew(Norway) Anders Linderoth etc.....

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what do you think o flynn is worth?

if he goes what fee will city get?

unless nl clubs negotiate properly and get the proper fees we will never develop.

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Originally posted by eoinh
what do you think o flynn is worth?

if he goes what fee will city get?

unless nl clubs negotiate properly and get the proper fees we will never develop.

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£100,000 and that's if they're lucky when you consider the state of English football.

Personally I hope that more English clubs get into financial bother for an extended period of time. At least then we'll be able to keep our better players because every time someone does well it's always "when/where do you think he'll go?".

The problem with teams negotiating transfers is that English sides know that we have to sell. A perfect example is Rovers and Noel Hunt. Dunfermline knew that Rovers were in financial trouble with the ground and then they could just basically name their price. If Hunt does well in Scotland then he'll be sold for a fee over £1m, which is what Rovers should've been after in the first place.

i agree with both of you. i was trying to point out in my post (and failed) that what hes worth and what city would get if sold will be vastly different.
i hate to say it as i dont like seeing clubs in danger but i hope that the financial mess hitting english clubs remains as well. its our and the leagues best chance of holding on to our best clubs.

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Originally posted by Shane
Surely he's better off playing for City in front of decent crowds and pushing for honours than languishing at the wrong end of English football.

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Is he not currently pushing for honours by helping Hartlepool to their 4 point lead at the top? I would like to see him back at City though, seeing as we should NEVER have let him go in the first place.

Murphy Out Now!!!

BBM has been back at Preston for a few weeks now due to the injury crisis (13 players out) at Deepdale. He played the full 90 at the weekend against Ipswich - didn't do to badly by all accounts.

Tractor Boys are the division's most in-form side and won 3-0 with a Marcus Bent hat-trick. :(