Ireland 15 Vs. France

Backs
G Dempsey (Leinster); S Horgan (Leinster), AN Other, G D`Arcy (Leinster), D Hickie (Leinster); R O`Gara (Munster), AN Other;

Forwards
M Horan (Munster), R Best (Ulster), J Hayes (Munster), D O`Callaghan (Munster), P O`Connell (Munster), S Easterby (Llanelli Scarlets), D Wallace (Munster), D Leamy (Munster).

Replacements: J Flannery (Munster), S Best (Ulster), N Best (Ulster) or J Heaslip (Leinster), M O`Driscoll (Munster), I Boss (Ulster) or E Reddan (Wasps), P Wallace (Ulster), G Murphy (Leicester) or A Trimble (Ulster).

Really thought Flannery would be back in ahead of best at hooker

Delighted that Horgan is back in and if O'Driscoll is out we still have a chance with Horgan at centre.

Flannery mustn't be 100% match fit cause Best did nothing to merit his place on the team.

finlma feck off, you have got a ticket for croker we dont want to hear from ye :p :D

In fairness to Best he did say he couldn't hear the line outs calls, but his delivery was shocking

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrayUnknowns

In fairness to Best he did say he couldn't hear the line outs calls, but his delivery was shocking

---

We won 12 lineouts out of 14 and he scored a try.

Also, don't underestimate the hookers role in a good scrum. And our scrum is noticeably better with Best in it.

Don't get me wrong, Flannery offers much, much more in the loose and I would always pick him ahead of Best, but that doesn't mean Best performed poorly.

I'm glad Horgan is back but really hope BOD is fit as I really don't like Horgan in the centre. Put bluntly, he doesn't have the rugby brain to choose the correct option a lot of the time and is much happier running in a straight line as a finisher on the wing.

we need BOD but having big Shane will be a big lift to the team as well.

I'd prefer Flannery to Best although Best had a decent game last week. Flannery won't weaken the scrum. He improved Munsters struggling scrum when he came on against Leicester.

was hoping flannery would be in and geordan murphy aswell.

Good to see Horgan back & hopefully on the wing. D'arcy a big plus too & more important that O'Driscoll on general play. Leamy would be a huge loss & Stringer important as unproven replacement.

French have made changes but does not look like weakening their side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pete

... be a huge loss & Stringer important as unproven replacement.

---

I wouldn't say Isaac Boss is unproven. He's played plenty of Super 12 and Heineken Cup and he also played on the winning team against Australia in the Autumn. I'd pick him ahead of Stringer fit or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by finlma

I wouldn't say Isaac Boss is unproven. He's played plenty of Super 12 and Heineken Cup and he also played on the winning team against Australia in the Autumn. I'd pick him ahead of Stringer fit or not.

---

Agree, at this stage Stringer is very much proven, ie there are strengths to his game (tackling, speed of pass) and weaknesses (box-kicking, physicality at the breakdown, lack of variety). Two different players that offer different options, but Stringer certainly infuriates me more with his pondering at the back of rucks leading him to getting dragged in too often. To his credit he breaks a bit more these days (ie greater than zero) but Boss is much better at keeping the back row honest which creates space for the backline to exploit. On the other hand Boss doesn't have Stringers quality of pass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by finlma

I wouldn't say Isaac Boss is unproven. He's played plenty of Super 12 and Heineken Cup and he also played on the winning team against Australia in the Autumn. I'd pick him ahead of Stringer fit or not.

---

He is unproven in big international match although he may have potential. I did not think Boss played that well in the Australian game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pete

He is unproven in big international match although he may have potential. I did not think Boss played that well in the Australian game.

---

You must have watched the game with your eyes closed Pete. That was one of the best ever performances by an Irish team - Boss made some great breaks and supplied good ball to the backs. You can't get much bigger than playing against Oz in my opinion. I think its time to look beyond Stringer - Wales, England, Scotland and France have far superior scrum halves than us.

O'Driscoll, Stringer out...advantage Les Bleus.:(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joeSoap

O'Driscoll, Stringer out...advantage Les Bleus.:(

---

Don't think Boss replacing Stringer will have much effect for reasons outlined above.

BOD is obviously another matter entirely. Really need big games from Horgan and Murphy. Still not convinced by Horgan in the centre, never really impressed me for Ireland in that position but hopefully his experience will tell and he will make the right decisions and try and play a continuity game.

If he adopts an old-style crash ball approach and takes it to ground repeatedly we are doomed.

he is great at releasing now though i.e. offloading in the tackle, and sucking in a couple of players, therefore giving darcy the room to make breaks.

its murphy i would be more worried about especially tackling. we cant afford to have any missed tackles, o'driscoll was class at that.

we should still be ok :)

A pity about BOD but in reality I could not see how a hamstring injury can clear up in 7 days. A further reaction if he had to play on aturday could have ruled him out for the rest of the 6 nations. Not a bad day when you can bring Boss and Murphy off the bench and still have Trimble available to cover both the wing and centre.

I think Ireland will have to ensure no more than 20 different players start the 6 Nations games to ensure chance at the Championship.

Given the injuries its not bad that Leamy & Horgan in while O'Driscoll & Stringer out.

Leamy is a big plus as France have very strong back row.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pete

Given the injuries its not bad that Leamy & Horgan in while O'Driscoll & Stringer out.

Leamy is a big plus as France have very strong back row.

---

:confused: What do you mean by Leamy in? He played against Wales.

Its going to be very close tomorrow, hopefully we'll sneak it.

bloody cheating french. not one decision went our way. what did everyone else think?

Sickened. Just sickened.

A bad start, way too many handling errors, threw away points we whould have taken from penalties, and STILL should have won it. We just cannot tackle.

Thought ref did ok, just a bit fast to end "advantage" a few times.

What a shame. Why o why did they not attack the ball from the French kickoff after the penalty and it was game over? It’s just so heartbreaking. Triple Crown it is so. The English next.

I thought the referee was a bit biased, however we make our own destiny.

France dominated the first half & Ireland the second. France had more try scoring opportunities yet Ireland threw it away in the end. France should have been out of sight at half time as Ireland were so poor.

Thought Wallace should have been man of the match. Horgan was poor in the centre but suppose few other options there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by osarusan

Sickened. Just sickened.

A bad start, way too many handling errors, threw away points we whould have taken from penalties, and STILL should have won it. We just cannot tackle.

Thought ref did ok, just a bit fast to end "advantage" a few times.

---

The French tries came from missed tackles on the scorer by both Hayes and Hickie. Hayes really is a poor tackler in any type of open play.

Dont agree about the referee being fast to end advantage, the only advantage he was poor on was Geordan Murphy's 'breakaway' try after the knock-on. On all the three kickable penalties in the second half where we had advantage, he let us play on and we tried to run the ball for tries in not very promising situations instead of just killing the ball and the taking the shot for goal. Once again, IMHO, bad captaincy from O'Connell, just as he did for Munster in recent game against Leicester.

We are not disciplined enough and give away too many stupid penalties. The second French penalty given away when Rory Best quite blatantly and quite uneccessarily pulled Mignoni into the ruck, a f**kin schoolboy error. Unless O'Sullivan gets this tightens this up, Jonny Wilkinson is likely to become the record scorer in a big game at Croke Park, beating the 18 points scored by Nicky English in Tipp's win over Antrim in 1989. ;)

Gutted - not felt this bad since we lost to Spain 5 years ago. We played well in 2nd half and probably deserved to steal the victory but what a sickener.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Superhoops

Hayes really is a poor tackler in any type of open play.

---

He's a prop! If he's tackling anywhere outside of a 5 metre radius from a ruck it means the defensive system has broken down.

I thought Horgan (unfortunately as predicted) was poor in the centre, he just doesn't have the rugby brain to create from 12 and a bish-bosh crash ball game got us nowhere. O"Gara didn't make a line kick all day, but showed superb hands for the try.

Leamy had a poor game, but he's had so many stormers for us over the past 12 months its hard to find fault with him. Easterby was anonymous.

I've never seen us miss so many tackles and knock on so much in open play.

I also though O'Connell was wrong to take a shot at goal (20/20 hindsight and all that) at the end. If we'd kicked to touch, all we'd have had to do was throw it in and maul it around for a minute in their 22.

Boss and Wallace were head and shoulders the best Irish players on the day, I'd love to think that Boss had guaranteed selection for England but unfortunately Eddie tends to be conservative.

As for whoever thought Steve Walsh was fair, he stuck true to his word from during the week and only refereed one side, Ireland. I lost count of the number of times Betsen was offside and Walsh was busy looking into a ruck trying to catch Ireland out.

I'm sick and tired of the Southern Hemisphere refs coming up here and imposing their balls Super 14 view of rugby on us. Lets go back to 6 nations refs for the 6 Nations and we'll put up with Walsh and his cronies every 4 years in the World Cup when we have to.:mad:

''As for whoever thought Steve Walsh was fair, he stuck true to his word from during the week and only refereed one side, Ireland. I lost count of the number of times Betsen was offside and Walsh was busy looking into a ruck trying to catch Ireland out''

That's exactly what I meant in my post.Even my Wales supporting father was screaming at Walsh.

Would only agree with bits of this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

He's a prop! If he's tackling anywhere outside of a 5 metre radius from a ruck it means the defensive system has broken down. Straight forward missed tackles are nothing to do with being a prop! Twice a man came straight towards Hayes within his tackling 'zone' and twice Hayes let him slip the tackle

I thought Horgan (unfortunately as predicted) was poor in the centre, he just doesn't have the rugby brain to create from 12 and a bish-bosh crash ball game got us nowhere. O"Gara didn't make a line kick all day, but showed superb hands for the try.

Leamy had a poor game, but he's had so many stormers for us over the past 12 months its hard to find fault with him. He dropped that 'dolly' ball from which the French scored but apart from that I didnt think he was that bad. He made more tackles than any other Irish player. Easterby was anonymous.

I've never seen us miss so many tackles and knock on so much in open play.
We missed 10 tackles, the French missed 16. We made 15 errors and the French made 12. Where we really were outplayed was on the ground where the French won 12 turnovers to our 5

I also though O'Connell was wrong to take a shot at goal (20/20 hindsight and all that) at the end. If we'd kicked to touch, all we'd have had to do was throw it in and maul it around for a minute in their 22.There were still three minutes to go when O'Gara kicked the penalty. Even though we were playing better in the second half, there was no guarantee we could keep possession for 3 minutes. Kicking at goal was the correct percentage call. Kicking the goal meant France had about 90 seconds to score a try from the kick-off. If he missed the goal attempt, they either had to run it from their own line or drop out from the 22.)

Boss and Wallace were head and shoulders the best Irish players on the day, I'd love to think that Boss had guaranteed selection for England but unfortunately Eddie tends to be conservative.

As for whoever thought Steve Walsh was fair, he stuck true to his word from during the week and only refereed one side, Ireland. I lost count of the number of times Betsen was offside and Walsh was busy looking into a ruck trying to catch Ireland out.We only conceeded 4 penalties in total, but all were correct calls and within kickable distance. The French conceeded 10, not including the three second half 'advantages' of which I think you will find that 2 were against Betsen.

I'm sick and tired of the Southern Hemisphere refs coming up here and imposing their balls Super 14 view of rugby on us. Lets go back to 6 nations refs for the 6 Nations and we'll put up with Walsh and his cronies every 4 years in the World Cup when we have to.:mad:

---

The Ref's advantage calls were shocking, apart from pulling it up too quickly for Murphy, there were the 2 penalty's in the French 22 that he allowed Ireland the advantage but when no advantage came our way he didn't bring it back.
Also agree with the offside, Betsen was constantly offside and the 2 French props were coming from the side of every ruck, Walsh seemed intent on punishing Ireland in the rucks, he even gave a penalty at one stage against Ireland for the very vaugely described "slowing the ball" when he clearly couldn't see an actual offence.
There were also 2 or 3 clear knock ons in the first half by the French that were let go one of which then led to one of the penaltys that they missed right at the end of the first half.
Walsh had a shocker, and the fact that he was mouthing off in the press during the week only makes it more unsettling.

In fairness, Walsh is always sh*t and we should not expect anything else.

ya, i dont think he should have been allowed to ref that game in the first place. He gave many dubious decisions against us, and on 3 or 4 occassions he gave penalties against us for holding on/other stuff when the french were offside in the first place, and i remember a french winger being tackled not releasing yet he never penalised him.

He should have been taken off the game the minute he made the comments about watching Ireland at the breakdown during the week. He was immediately perceived as a biased ref after he said this, regardless of the outcome.

The downside of Reflink and miking up the refs and the general higher profile this has given to rugby refs has been that some of them have mistakenly assumed that they are the stars (Walsh and that p rick Spreadbury being the two prime examples).

Its also becoming clear that the new scrum laws aren't really making much of a difference. Unless you are going to penalise teams with a penalty for putting a shove or a wheel on before the put it it will remain a mess. I can see rugby league style uncontested scrums in a couple of years.

The thing that got my back up was the pulling of Horan's shirt plus being blocked off when he went for the ball after his kick. We should have been given the penalty, our advantage was lost because he was impeded.....oh well another year and another disappointment. I hate playing France, I really do.

ya they really are our bogey team, but if we beat them in teh world cup thats all that matters. we have seriouslly gone backwards since the autumn tests though. We looked extremely flat in the backs yesterday as well.

good call , a win in the WC over them would really make up for the last few years , not beyond the realms of possibility , bring on england now and lets give them a good whupping , i fancy them to suffer the backlash from yesterday

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

He's a prop! If he's tackling anywhere outside of a 5 metre radius from a ruck it means the defensive system has broken down.

---

I agree. A 20 stone prop up against a french winger has about 3% chance of making any type of tackle.

:rolleyes:

I hope Best starts in the back row. Have to say Wallace didn't deserve to be on losing side, nor Hickie. I was really happy with our 2nd half performance as well until the last minute try.

i know next to nothing about rugby and this was the first full game i've seen in years and years. i figured i'd have to see it for the historical occasion but it won't be the last 20 bob i spend watching ireland v. whoever. fantastic and gripping, saddened by the result but exhilarated nonetheless. everyone around me was screaming at the ref, esp. for offsides that weren't blown. given it was definitely a game of 2 halves the only difference i could point to in the sides was the superiority of the french 'strategic' kicking. those fellas were hitting lasers from the back areas. ireland struggled much more with this in this particular match.