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And don't let anybody tell you any different. I have been lucky enough to have seen the generation of Giles, Brady and co through to todays players. And believe me we have some very good players again. Good enough to get through this group with a proper manager. And for the first time in a while I see real world class potential in this current crop of Irish players.
To a certain extent I agree, but we don't seem to be getting dominant players in crucial positions.
Currently we seem to have a surplus of wingers and strikers playing at a decent level, but we don't have much quality in the centre of midfield apart from Carsley, and if you look at most winning teams, that heart of midfield is where games are won and lost.
We've got some prospects/developing players in Stephen Ireland, Jamie McCarthy, etc....but they're not ready yet.
And on the other side of the spectrum, we have veterans who no longer play at the top level, or never did. Servicable but not ideal players such as Kavanagh, Liam Miller, McPhail...
We also have some players who occasionally play out of position in the centre for us, such as John O'Shea, Kevin Kilbane...but we all know how that ended up.
I agree we have a decent amount of talent in the attacking areas of the pitch, and an O.K. defense perhaps, but our centre of midfield is sorely lacking quality, and without that it will take a very good manager to be creative with formations to get the best out of this team.
I liked what we did against the Czechs, but against a team of similar ability like say the Slovaks or the Welsh, we'd probably want to play a more offensive formation.
There is talent there, just not in the most important parts of the pitch right now IMO.
There's allot of footballing talent there alright in the like of Duff, Keane, McGeady, A Reid... Plus the potential coming through with the like of Clarke. But there's a clear lack of direction on the pitch if you know what I mean and that's what I feel we're missing more. McShane instilled something in the Czech game, not just in his performance, but how he carried himself. I'm risking a ridiculing with this but as it stands now I'd trade the wizardry and talent of McGeady (purely because we can suppliment it somewhat) for someone like Joey Barton.
I've no idea what kind of player Jamie McCarthy is but the comparisions to Gerrard are nice to hear. Apparently Lee Freckleton is making decent waves at his age. Hopefully a move up is imminent and he can hold his own in the top flight like Kinsella or Holland. We just need something to compliment the current talent and that coming through.
Jaysus... Lee frecklington ya mean? some fookin great player. What 'great' players do we have den i must ask?
Clearly there are exceptions and great players can be found mid-table or even lower. As a rule the greats are signed by the top teams competing for the League and tend to retire with a cabinet full of silver. It was the case that we had many greats, I really think it is far from evident today.
Previously the top teams were well represented by Irish players. No need to mention them all but the likes of Aldridge, Houghton, Whelan, Keane, Irwin, Moran, McGrath, Kelly, Harte etc etc. Of the top six teams in the English Premiership there is only one player assured of a place in a starting line up. Don't want to get into a debate on the merits of different leagues, but the Premiership is still the place to be, together with Spain & Italy. This is if we are talking about "great" players.
1 Man Utd
2 Chelsea
3 Liverpool
4.Arsenal
5 Bolton
6 Portsmouth
I can also remember times when we had a team of leaders out there, maybe 4or so club captains. Helped provide suitable motivation on the pitch, which was so important in many of our qualification campaigns.
I agree we have potential though. But as much as the year we won the U16 & U 19 European Cups ? Not sure & very few of those fulfilled that potential.
Agree with Mr Garcia here....we deffo have some up and coming players that have the potential to be stars....Stokes Clarke Garvan McShane Supple Long Ireland S. Quinn and P. McCarthy to name a few. But there seems a worrying trend with Irish youngsters to fall by the wayside exactly around the time when they should be establishing themselves in their respective first team...why this keeps on happening is anyone's guess, lack of physical development maybe? Definitely think that Staunton should take heart from the performances of McShane and should be looking at blooding these guys as soon as possible and lets see what happens....Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
I think we now have a better set of players than when McCarthy qualified for the WC. Only Keane is really missed out of that team (a Kinsella type player would possibly be nice also). If we had a half decent manager we'd qualify from our group (not the most difficult in the world).
The real potentially gifted players, however, are too young at the moment to be of really much help to us in the current qualifying campaign. Ireland, J McCarthy (though I haven't seen any talent in him yet), Garvan, Stokes, S Quinn, O'Dea, McGeady, Clarke, Long and Mc Shane could all be top level players within the next 2 years or so. I personally think we need J O'Brien to get fit again and re-establish himself as he's the sort of tough tackling midfielder (his proper position) we need coming through.
If we get rid of the ginger mongo and get someone with some clue about managing a football team I can see us qualifying and doing well in the next WC. The Euros is a write off though (I had a dream last night we only drew with San Marino away).
Lets not forget about Stephen Reid.Im gutted for him this season because he was playing some great stuff last season.So much so that Ferguson was looking at him.He played the cebteral mid-field role for Rovers so hopefully he can keep his chin up this year and get into rythem again next year.
So the title of the thread by reading your post should have been "We have some potentially great players again" which is a different matter altogether.
I've also seen the Giles, Brady generations.....and I have to totally disagree with you. We have a lot of average players. A lot of players who haven't lived up to their potential (Keane, Duff). Staunton isn't up to the job, but, he can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. As is usual, we get a lot of young players coming up, but in a few years I can't see too many of these players being considered 'world class' or even european class. The only exception is Kevin Doyle who is actually showing his talent. A couple of years ago Liam Miller was meant to go all the way, as was John O'Shea when he broke into the united side....and then not much. So I don't hold out much hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
And we've always had potentially great players. Every Irish underage side has a McPhail or a Shaun Byrne or a Jamie McCarthy. The vast majority fall very, very short of being great (in Brady, Giles, McGrath, Keane terms).Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
reid was beginning to peak before his recent injury turmoil but as great and all that ferguson has been some of his transfers of recent years* have not been great and i would therefore not hold this as a beckon of reids ability/talent. better to judge the lad on his own undoubted potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
*eric djemba-djemba, alan smith (as a replacement for RK!!), carrick (£20m!!)
regards ireland and having great players - i reckon we have decent players who are showing great potential. however most seem to fall into the winger/striker positions. no visable sign of a leader or dominant central midfield player. btw while it is usually ok to play younger lads up front or out wide as you get toward the core of the team (CM/CB) it is usual to have more experienced lads filling these positions - so we may be a bit away from that at the moment. the amount of paper talk in this country over the last few weeks about jamie mccarthy (a sixteen y o kid) illustrates how lacking we are in the middle of the park!
There will always be talk about wonderkids. I'd say the reflection of where we are now is that a player like Carsley (undeservedly) a much derided plodder in the past is now in the backbone of the team mould.
I think such talk is premature
just reading mc graths book at the moment .. and remembering the team at his time .. Whelan, Keane, Aldo, Brady, Irwin, Sheedy, Moran, O' Leary, Stapleton, Houghton, Townsend, Lawrenson as well as Mc Grath and all of them playing around the same time?! Top top players.
Of the present crop .. Given and Keane (who will be both getting on by the next world cup) would be the only two to get into the best team of the last twenty years... Duff had a great 2002 world cup but since then?
Very unfair on Duff. He has been excellent for us whenever he's not marked by 2 or 3 players. When he is marked by so many he just plays it simple. The only poor game I can remember off the top of my head was away to Faroe Islands when he couldn't even beat a player. Other than that he was by far our best outfield player under Kerr and set up most of our goals in the WC qualifiers. He also set up our first 3 goals of this campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by macdermesser
Given, Dunne, Finnan, Duff, McGeady/A.Reid, S.Reid, Keane, Doyle. That's 8 players all well capable of getting us to a European Championships. Carsley is well capable of playing the holding role. A top left back and a top centre half and we'd have an excellent first 11 (when all fit).
You've probably posted this somewhere else Eirebhoy, but I'm curious as to what your starting lineup/formation would be if you were manager.
You probably know more about the available options than anyone I've yet to encounter, or at least as much.
I wouldn't got that far. :) I don't watch much English football at all tbh.
If all were 100% fit tomorrow.
Given
Finnan
Dunne
McShane
Harte
Duff
Carsley
S.Reid
A.Reid
Keane
Doyle
Harte has been excellent since Kerr brought him back into the squad. He's finally back from injury, playing his first game of the season on Sunday against Bilbao.
McShane in because nobody deserves to be dropped after a performance like he put in against Koller.
A.Reid over McGeady because Reid is one of our most talented players and we can rely on him more than McGeady atm.
The rest I think picks itself.
I would agree with eirebhoys team except I'd have O'Brien for McShane.
Our choice of midfielders is very poor for International standard.Until the likes of Garvan come through we are going to struggle.
is mcshane playing week in week out now for west brom?
Yes. He's established himself as a regular starter. I still have my doubts about him though - he's as slow as f**k. Saying that we've no one better at the moment. Hopefully St Ledger turns out to be good to give us some more options.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I just like McShane's ability to read the game. I think he'll go on to be an excellent organisor, like Cunningham.
O'Dea is a guy to watch too, he's been playing regularly for Celtic in the past few weeks.
I'd love to see him face Milan.
Agreed, Very much so :)Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Thought we were gonna cross swords over A Reid in the middle agian:)
Can't remember who posted about steven Reid earlier in the thread... I acknowledge he is our best available player in that position but I don't think he's ever gonna live up to what we thought he was gonna be. And i say a that as one of his biggest fans. In his early days I thought we were gonna have a real midfield power house with allot of strings to his bow. But for all his attributes (Pace shot stature versatillity), he's just hasn't lived up to the sum of his parts.
Even when he was fit and playing, too inconsistent and very much a confidence player. It also takes him a good number of games to "get going". I don't think the united link was anything more than agent talking up his new contract. I really hope I'm wrong but now I see him more as a stop gap until someone better comes along.
Well Jol tried to get him in the summer but he turned them down but had a bid turned down. I think he's a very good player but he'll probably always have problems with injury. Thats A.Reid on the right btw, not the centre. :)
why gustavo? he has to be rustier than the titanic at this stage. i reckon stan played him in cyprus partly because he felt an easier game before the czech match might sharpen him up a bit and he had a nightmareQuote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
Stan is on record as saying he was going to play McShane, but when he spoke to Bobby Robson about the team, Robson advised him to pick Andy O'Brien.Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayhoop
have read that too but the fact is that however rusty he was in october he is gonna be a hell of a lot worse nowQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/players...atType=current
starting off with a big reputation and building on the reputation can be
two very different things.
I think everyone needs to recognise this fact. O'Brien has been very poor for quite some time now and McShane made the best debut seen for many years against the Czechs. Andy has had his time and with the noises coming from the Hawthorns, it seems like McShane could be the real deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayhoop
Stick with the youth Stan, start building for South Africa!