FAI making progress, future looks bright...

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17/12/2006, 2:12 PM
pete

FAI making progress, future looks bright...

FAI agree IAG process, supporters & media moan about the result but the FAI don't budge.

Dundalk Madman hijacks FAI offices but the FAI ignore him & he goes away.

Licencing process means Limerick can't get 1st division licence. Fans and media request exception, FAI don't budge, rules are rules.

FAI come out publically to back Shamrock Rovers in Tallaght offering partial legal financial backing. I can only because of sensitivity of Croke Park but good decisive move at last.

Move eL matches on tv. New sponsor for the FAI Cup (can't be any worse than Carlsberg). 1 million plus eL prize fund.

Must say its easy to criticise the FAI but recent signs show good progress & while most people will have concerns seems to be a lot more interest in the league from Merrion Square.
17/12/2006, 2:51 PM
Philly

I agree. They've dealt with a few challenging situations pretty well.
17/12/2006, 3:04 PM
Poor Student

No one expects the FAI to actually budge, that's hardly a sign of progress or success. The media criticism of the IAG process is not about how it was implemented as such but more to do with the process in itself being needless nonsense. The FAI committed themselves and the clubs to a bizarre process and now have to face the music. The increased prize fund also comes on the back of increased entry fees and won't benefit very many clubs. More eL matches on TV is as much to do with the initiative of the TV channels, Setanta particularly. There's been no details of the cup sponsorship so we don't know if it's actually any improvement.

How can you praise them for ignoring Maxi? Did you expect them to add Dundalk to a 13 team Premier and send him on his merry way?:confused:
17/12/2006, 3:15 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

The FAI committed themselves and the clubs to a bizarre process and now have to face the music.

Bizarre? Anything but I would say. You clearly misunderstand the background to the merger.

Clubs (by this I mean the majority) have failed miserably to organise a sustainable domestic league amongst themselves (under their previous self-management), they saw they writing on the wall and handed it over to the FAI to see if they can do any better.

Your UCD-centric view of the world seems to be purely based on the fact your own club is well-run, ergo the League has nothing to worry about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

The increased prize fund also comes on the back of increased entry fees and won't benefit very many clubs.

The increase is partly due to the increase in fees, but also due to the FAI investing their own cash, and as for rewarding success with more money, I really struggle to see this as a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

More eL matches on TV is as much to do with the initiative of the TV channels, Setanta particularly.

Who negotiated the deals?

I'm reserving judgement on the FAI for at least a year or two, but to argue that we should have continued with the status quo is frankly mindblowing.
17/12/2006, 3:30 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Bizarre? Anything but I would say. You clearly misunderstand the background to the merger.

I don't think I've seen anything like it except in places like Australia where they ripped up clubs and all in the process. We've had neither a radical change nor something normal, the end result is one club fast tracked over another. I absolutely commend Galway on being well run but they should have earned their right to contend in the Premier on the pitch. The basic licencing should be enough to decide whatever off the field matters must be dealt with. If it didn't work then fix it rather than coming up with the bizarre formula that isn't washing with the media.

Quote:

Clubs (by this I mean the majority) have failed miserably to organise a sustainable domestic league amongst themselves (under their previous self-management), they saw they writing on the wall and handed it over to the FAI to see if they can do any better.

That's a very simplified view of the process. The FAI made the overtures as far as I remember. Some clubs wanted the radical change to benefit themselves as they believed it would rid the league of clubs with low attendances and replace them with larger supported clubs. Jim Roddy told me as such. These are also the clubs who would actually significantly benefit from the increased prize fund. Some clubs grabbed it as they felt it gave them a better chance of being in the Premier next season than they would on the pitch and others felt intimidated into doing so for fear of being the only ones to object and being left out in the cold, particularly at a time when some of these clubs were on the verge of securing grants. It's nowhere near as black and white as the situation above.

Quote:

The increase is partly due to the increase in fees, but also due to the FAI investing their own cash, and as for rewarding success with more money, I really struggle to see this as a problem.

As far as I remember if you subtract the prize money from the newly inflated entry fee very few clubs will come out with a surplus. Superficially it looks like a great financial boost but apart from the clubs at the top (where the prize money increases exponentially) it won't be much of a plus.

Quote:

Who negotiated the deals?

TV3 had FAI Cup rights in the past and the FAI never managed to get them to show anything. Do I recall one year RT� had to take the right to show the final because TV3 couldn't even be bothered? I think the improvement of the standard of play and Setanta coming onto the scene has created an initiative on behalf of the tv channels. Perhaps the FAI have something to do with it but I don't see any evidence of that. If you're going to laud them because they allow hungry paying channels to show their football then they deserve a great slap on the back.

Quote:

I'm reserving judgement on the FAI for at least a year or two, but to argue that we should have continued with the status quo is frankly mindblowing.

I didn't argue for the status quo, but change for change sake is silly too. Like yourself judgement will have to be reserved for some time before seeing if the change was worth it.
17/12/2006, 3:44 PM
pete

By any definition Galway are one of the smaller clubs in the country but they got off their collective arses & have been rewarded for it. Over recent years its been proven that the FAI will help those that help themselves.

The FAI negotiated the new tv deals. Its head in the sand stuff to suggest Setanta have pushed this as they showing less than half the games.

UCD fans see change as a threat as they know that they cannot improve on or off the pitch so are happy for the status quo to remain. This attitude has held the league back for years.

:(

I would have liked some more radical changes but maybe in hindsight the FAI realised the clusb would never vote for this.
17/12/2006, 4:03 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

By any definition Galway are one of the smaller clubs in the country but they got off their collective arses & have been rewarded for it. Over recent years its been proven that the FAI will help those that help themselves.

Look, we have fundementally different weltanshaaungs here. You see no problem in rewarding teams for off the field criteria. It's not the game I grew up loving, it's not what attracted me to the game and it's not what I expect to see. I don't mind some criteria like the licencing to impose some sort of viability on clubs but this way above and beyond the call of duty.

Quote:

The FAI negotiated the new tv deals. Its head in the sand stuff to suggest Setanta have pushed this as they showing less than half the games.

If it's the initiative of the FAI in sounding out the channels then fair play to them, but I feel it's the channels sounding out the football. Wasn't it the eL who negotiated the major breakthrough deal of last season anyway? I still believe Setanta coming onto the scene has had the biggest impact in increased domestic coverage.

Quote:

UCD fans see change as a threat as they know that they cannot improve on or off the pitch so are happy for the status quo to remain. This attitude has held the league back for years.

Indeed, we're only considered among the best off the field by the IAG and have finished in the top half of the league this season. If you don't agree with me then argue in kind but don't post silly nonsense.
17/12/2006, 4:29 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

I still believe Setanta coming onto the scene has had the biggest impact in increased domestic coverage.

The Setanta Cup was Setanta/FAI initiative. The tv deals that followed were negotiated by the FAI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Indeed, we're only considered among the best off the field by the IAG and have finished in the top half of the league this season. If you don't agree with me then argue in kind but don't post silly nonsense.

I've already said many times that based on the criteria you deserve your place. However you are just doing well off the pitch now because the average standard is poor. I don;t want to go off topic but unfortunately UCD have no potential. Other clubs may be underperforming but i just don't see locals in south dublin coming out to support a university team no matter how well run.
17/12/2006, 4:38 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

I've already said many times that based on the criteria you deserve your place. However you are just doing well off the pitch now because the average standard is poor. I don;t want to go off topic but unfortunately UCD have no potential. Other clubs may be underperforming but i just don't see locals in south dublin coming out to support a university team no matter how well run.

This is the crux of the matter.

We all want to see the league and clubs progress, improve and increase support levels. But that will unfortunately not happen across the board - some of our existing clubs will be left behind, as they don't have the genuine potential to keep-up in terms of crowds, and therefore revenue. Sadly UCD is one of those. I'd love us to have successful and popular University-based sides, like in Latin America, but there is no thirst for it in football in this part of the world.

I therefore sense more than a degree of self-interested protectionism amongst the oft-aired grievances of UCD fans on this whole matter. An improving EL will inevitably leave UCD behind.

As for the FAI - credit where credit is due. It's a better start than most of us imagined, but too early to be writing the biography of their League involvement just yet....
17/12/2006, 6:52 PM
pineapple stu

Honestly can't believe there are still people out there who believe that this is a bright new dawn and that suddenly everything's going to be OK and that poor little UCD are going to be left behind, so we should do all we can to help them on their way.

Pete, remind me to dig up your classic post where you said that you never troll... :rolleyes:
17/12/2006, 6:56 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Pete, remind me to dig up your classic post where you said that you never troll... :rolleyes:

This is not trolling. As long as UCD don't get relegated I can't any way to get rid of ye :)

The new dawn has been good so far... I can't believe some people unable to rid themselves of old FAI prejudices.
17/12/2006, 7:16 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Honestly can't believe there are still people out there who believe that this is a bright new dawn and that suddenly everything's going to be OK and that poor little UCD are going to be left behind, so we should do all we can to help them on their way.

It's getting very silly alright. Have I missed something or has the eL not improved significantly in standard over the past 5 years? We're no further behind at this point, in fact we've produced two U-21 internationals and seem to be attracting interest in our players from the upper reaches of the Scottish and English leagues. We're moving to a new ground and our fanbase is increasing slowly. It's not a bed of roses but we're moving along with the rest of the league. There's no proof to support absolute statements such as "an improved eL will leave UCD behind or "UCD can never attract a support. As DCFCSteve has pointed out other university sides across the globe haven't had trouble attracting a support. To say there's no appetite for a university soccer side is nonsense when there seems to be no appetite for domestic soccer itself. If that could be rectified then the other could follow. No, we'll probably never be the biggest club in the country but it's the same in any country, varying clubs of varying sizes, potential and capabilities.
17/12/2006, 9:58 PM
Billy Lord

No Irish club gets anything like a decent level of support, so on that basis UCD aren't far behind anyone. Off and on the field they have proven to be both competitive and progressive. Is it their fault that most other clubs are less capable of doing enough things properly?
UCD isn't the problem. Near enough to everything else is.
17/12/2006, 10:17 PM
Student Mullet

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

The new dawn has been good so far... I can't believe some people unable to rid themselves of old FAI prejudices.

I agree with the first half of that, the FAI has been running itself well for the last five days or so. If they keep it up I'll be as impressed (and surprised) as anyone. I think it's much too early to ask people to rid themselves of old FAI prejudices. It's going to take at least a year of good management to win me over.

P.S. The UCD debate is a tired one. I'd be happy to repeat arguments I've made a hundred times before in these boards but we should probably split them into a different thread.
18/12/2006, 6:34 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

It's getting very silly alright. Have I missed something or has the eL not improved significantly in standard over the past 5 years? We're no further behind at this point, in fact we've produced two U-21 internationals and seem to be attracting interest in our players from the upper reaches of the Scottish and English leagues. We're moving to a new ground and our fanbase is increasing slowly. It's not a bed of roses but we're moving along with the rest of the league. There's no proof to support absolute statements such as "an improved eL will leave UCD behind or "UCD can never attract a support. As DCFCSteve has pointed out other university sides across the globe haven't had trouble attracting a support. To say there's no appetite for a university soccer side is nonsense when there seems to be no appetite for domestic soccer itself. If that could be rectified then the other could follow. No, we'll probably never be the biggest club in the country but it's the same in any country, varying clubs of varying sizes, potential and capabilities.

Yet again you justify maintaining the status quo on the basis that your own club are puttering along fine.

The rest of the League is not "moving along", at least not in any sustainable manner.
18/12/2006, 7:10 AM
Student Mullet

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Yet again you justify maintaining the status quo on the basis that your own club are puttering along fine.

Did he? I've re-read his post and I genuinely can't see where he says that.
18/12/2006, 7:44 AM
Macy

One word for the FAI are great lobby - Licencing. The FAI have always controlled this, and look what a success it's implementation continues to be, and how few fudges have been made.
18/12/2006, 8:39 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

One word for the FAI are great lobby - Licencing. The FAI have always controlled this, and look what a success it's implementation continues to be, and how few fudges have been made.

Fair point Macy, but if Licensing shows anything about the FAI, its their naivety.

With the benefit of hindsight if it had been applied in full we wouldn't have had a League.

In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king, the clubs (as EL administrators) have proven themselves over time to be blind, now its up to the FAI to demonstrate if they have any sight at all.
18/12/2006, 10:54 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

With the benefit of hindsight if it had been applied in full we wouldn't have had a League.

Good point.

Like everyone else I do not trust Delaney however the soundings from Merrion square on the eL have good recently. Even if it means giving Delaney more power the league & irish football needs a dictator who can enforce rules & rid the league of committees. i.e. someone who can look at the bigger picture.
18/12/2006, 10:56 AM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

Did he? I've re-read his post and I genuinely can't see where he says that.

Neither can I. All I said was that UCD haven't been left behind by the on the field progress of the last 5 years and I'm not afraid of further progress as we'll be able to keep up. Whether the recent progress is individually sustainable by the clubs off the field or not, the end effect is/will be progress on the field. What have we to fear? Nothing.
18/12/2006, 11:07 AM
Dodge

Who's in charge of the new league? Same guy who was in charge of the last one methinks... Oh with a new promotions officer with no experience and the head of the union now in a non threatening role.
18/12/2006, 11:34 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Who's in charge of the new league? Same guy who was in charge of the last one methinks...

Who's that then....? :confused:
18/12/2006, 11:47 AM
Dodge

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...k=view&id=1539

Nothing has changed but the name (and Galway being promoted over Waterford)
18/12/2006, 12:02 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...k=view&id=1539

Nothing has changed but the name (and Galway being promoted over Waterford)

Time will tell Dodge, but I suspect things will change.

Money will be dangled like a carrot to get the FAI's way (the same way it was to get the clubs to hand over running of the League).

I've no idea whether the FAI's way will be any better, but they'll get their way now they are in charge.
18/12/2006, 12:44 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...k=view&id=1539

Nothing has changed but the name (and Galway being promoted over Waterford)

Quote:

Mr. Paddy McCaul, Chairman of the out-going body, described the decision to merge with the FAI as �the dawn of a new era�.

Is Paddy McCaul still Chairman of the Eircom league under the FAI ? Are the Clubs still running the league ? If not - how can you claim the same person is in charge....? :confused:

If the same people were in charge of the league before and after the merger, then why did the FAI have to over-rule a League decision re McGuinness ? And why did the League then in-turn seek to have tat reversed ? :confused:
18/12/2006, 12:57 PM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Is Paddy McCaul still Chairman of the Eircom league under the FAI ?

Yes. http://breakingnews.iol.ie/sport/sto...93zzx&t=soccer
18/12/2006, 1:27 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

Yes. http://breakingnews.iol.ie/sport/sto...93zzx&t=soccer

Ahhhh - didn't know that. Thanks Schumi. Apologies Dodge.

I still don't accept (or perhaps don't want to acept !) the view that nothing will change though. Regardless if it's still the same figure-head - the FAI will want to do things their own way now.

It's all conjecture at this point, but the initial signs are that things will be different : if only re prize money, televised games and the implementation of licensing. Let's see is the usual inter-club shenanigans arise in the 2007 season, and how the FAI handle them.
18/12/2006, 1:33 PM
Dodge

TV games roughly the same as last season, licensing ALWAYS been in the FAI's domain and the prize money is being funded mainly by increased fees for clubs and a lessening of proze money for lower placed clubs.

The real key is whether they actually follow through on their promises to promote the league. If they succeed here, I'll be happy enough
18/12/2006, 1:54 PM
pete

There is supposed to be a participation agreement which hopefully will prevent the usual bickering but you know who... Hopefully its a case of keeping disputes within the agreed process & any threats to bring to the Courts dealt with severly.
18/12/2006, 1:59 PM
Dodge

There was nothing stopping them bringing in these rules before. There was even a previous LOI/FAI merger. its window dressing
18/12/2006, 2:32 PM
Dazzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

The real key is whether they actually follow through on their promises to promote the league. If they succeed here, I'll be happy enough

They are empolying people at each club(premier)? to promote the league more in the local areas, but they need someone to do it on a national level.
18/12/2006, 2:40 PM
Dodge

Plus they're not employing people at club level. They're paying €18k towards the employment of a person who needs to be paid twice that (at least). If a club is only going to employ a person on 18K (as I think most will) there'll be very little difference made. Noel Mooney is in charge of it nationally
18/12/2006, 2:48 PM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Plus they're not employing people at club level. They're paying �18k towards the employment of a person who needs to be paid twice that (at least).

Thought it was 10k?
18/12/2006, 2:53 PM
Dodge

Even worse...
18/12/2006, 5:05 PM
passerrby

its up to 15k i think
18/12/2006, 10:05 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Plus they're not employing people at club level. They're paying �18k towards the employment of a person who needs to be paid twice that (at least). If a club is only going to employ a person on 18K (as I think most will) there'll be very little difference made. Noel Mooney is in charge of it nationally

To be fair - if club's get given money to employ a Promotions person and they then don't take it seriously, it's the clubs that are to blame (yet again...) and not the FAI.

They can't hold every single club's feckin hand all the time. Giving them all the money to create a Promotions post just doesn't make sense in my view. The post should be self-financing to a large degree - the whole exercise would be a waste of money if it couldn't even raise sufficient funding to pay for half its salary, let alone anything else.
19/12/2006, 1:04 AM
Dodge

I agree steve but the clubs are broke and can't afford to spend 18-20k on a "promotions" officer, even if they need one badly.
19/12/2006, 2:28 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

I agree steve but the clubs are broke and can't afford to spend 18-20k on a "promotions" officer, even if they need one badly.

In which case, surely spending 18k on one is better than spending no money on none at all ?

I really can't see how this can be begrudged. The FAI are offering �400,000 to clubs to create a very important position that the majority couldn't afford to fund otherwise. It's the first time this has been actioned, and they're rightly beign financially cautious about this - hopefully waiting to see what sort of results it generates before throwing more money at what might well prove to be a pure waste. How can this step be viewed negatively ?? :confused:
19/12/2006, 3:31 AM
Student Mullet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

I agree steve but the clubs are broke and can't afford to spend 18-20k on a "promotions" officer, even if they need one badly.

I think that's what the FAI are trying to get away from. Every club can be bothered spending 20k on a squad player and that money would probably be better spent on a promotions person.
19/12/2006, 8:17 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

In which case, surely spending 18k on one is better than spending no money on none at all ?

I really can't see how this can be begrudged. The FAI are offering �400,000 to clubs to create a very important position that the majority couldn't afford to fund otherwise.... How can this step be viewed negatively ?? :confused:

Its not 400K, its between 10-18k for each premier division club. First division clubs get nothing. I'd much rather they sent the money on a dedicated, co-ordinated advertising/marketing budget at a national level. If they had a fund which clubs could draw down from (on the basis of costed plans) all the better

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