FAI bring injustice to a new level with Dundalk dumping

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17/12/2006, 1:02 PM
red bellied

FAI bring injustice to a new level with Dundalk dumping

From todays Sunday Independent

Some of the article,the rest is here http://www.unison.ie/sportsdesk/stor...=12&si=1743226

The only problem with this reasoning is that Dundalk did get their act together off the field. In fact, their off-field ranking is joint eighth out of 21. So they would appear to qualify for the premier division on both on and off-field grounds.

However, what has scuppered Dundalk is their low on-field score of 247 points, a mere 15th overall, just three points ahead of the perennially struggling Cobh Ramblers, almost 100 points behind Waterford, who finished bottom of the Premier Division and in a normal year would have been automatically relegated, and 86 behind Bray Wanderers, who previously might have been playing off with the Oriel Park side.

And the reason for this terrible score? The League decided that the on-field ranking would be computed by taking into account the combined results of clubs since the 2002/2003 season. Dundalk have had a bad couple of seasons so they were severely handicapped before they started their campaign at all. You and I might think that Dundalk actually deserve credit for bouncing back from adversity. Then again, we're mere football supporters who cannot appreciate the Borgesian intricacies of the eircom League, an organisation which thinks logic is someone who used to play for Red Star Belgrade.

Whatever the reason for bringing off-field factors into play, this invocation of past results goes against everything competitive sport should be about. Surely the point of a football season is that every team starts with a clean slate and will be judged purely on their results. The only reason I can think of for this clause is that the League were scared that (a) a big club might follow the lead of Shamrock Rovers and get relegated this year or (b) that Shams might not do that well in Division One and might need a leg up. In the end, they needn't have worried. The Hoops won Division One. But it says something about the way the rankings are weighted that, after narrowly winning the title in the lower division, their on-field score is 40 points higher than Sligo Rovers, who finished fifth in the top flight
17/12/2006, 1:34 PM
R�iteoir

Boo-hoo

Shouldn't have played so badly in the first couple of years of the on-field ranking period.

Indo such a rag tbh
17/12/2006, 1:42 PM
Poor Student

Bet that'll get Shamrock Rovers fans boiling, a Sligo fan referring to them as Shams in the national media.:p
17/12/2006, 1:52 PM
OneRedArmy

Thats the worst article I've ever read. Its a mindless, poorly argued dirge which is full of contradictions and has no point other than being anti-Eircom League (which I suspect was unintentional).

And the UCD fans on here are going to love his view of their club.:D

Now I remember why I don't buy the Sindo.
17/12/2006, 1:55 PM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

And the UCD fans on here are going to love his view of their club.:D

There's only one reason Sligo fans don't want us in the premier division.
17/12/2006, 2:05 PM
pete

Yawn, pointless, inaccurate article. Sums up why I never read the Sindo.
17/12/2006, 4:52 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by red bellied

The League decided that the on-field ranking would be computed by taking into account the combined results of clubs since the 2002/2003 season.

And who is this "The League" that yee speak of...? Oh yes - that body that Dundalk are an equal voting member of...... :rolleyes:

Did Dundalk speak out against the process at the time it was voted on ? Did they publically state their opposition to it, and their fears that it would be unfair ? I believe not.

So tough titties - Dundalk played as big as role int tbis change as every single other club, so they'll just have to shut the fcuk up and put up with its repercussions now that it's come back to bite them.

Complaining about circumstances working against you is one thing. Complaining about such circumstances when you played an equal measure in them arising in the first place is just pathetic. Whingers of the highest order....

Quote:

Originally Posted by red bellied

an organisation which thinks logic is someone who used to play for Red Star Belgrade.

An age-old joke penned by someone who thinks shi'te is something that should be printed.... :o
17/12/2006, 6:18 PM
Comic Book Guy

Very poor article alright, ****ed me off by referring to Cobh as perennial strugglers, 3rd and 4th in succesive seasons is hardly struggling.
17/12/2006, 6:20 PM
inthestand99

Get over yourself red bellied. Dundalk are where they belong in the first division along with their sugardaddy and firestarter supporters.
17/12/2006, 7:51 PM
red bellied

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthestand99

Get over yourself red bellied. Dundalk are where they belong in the first division along with their sugardaddy and firestarter supporters.

Get over what I didnt write the article, Mr Sweeney did.
17/12/2006, 8:59 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sduffy

What Dundalk want is a break down of the off-field criteria after all they signed up to a "transparent" process. At the recent press conference that's how the chairman of the IAG described the entire process. Why is it so unreasonable to request such information?

Answer on a brick and f**k it in the Foyle.

What's this got to do with the article?

Will Dundalk quit whining when they get the breakdown of points?

Or will they find a new whine, like not including their cup winning season
in the on-field points?

Whatever way you look at it the Sindo article is a disgrace to school journalism & frankly not fit to wipe your hole with.
17/12/2006, 9:21 PM
sligoman

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthestand99

Get over yourself red bellied

I think red bellied wrote that article very well actually. He could get a job with the Sunday Independant in my opinion

:p.
17/12/2006, 9:44 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by red bellied

Get over what I didnt write the article, Mr Sweeney did.

Sweeneys reputation in the eL destroyed in one article...
17/12/2006, 10:22 PM
Student Mullet

This is very similar to a thread we had during the week. We should stop expecting quality journalism from the Indo.
19/12/2006, 8:45 AM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

This is very similar to a thread we had during the week. We should stop expecting quality journalism from the Indo.

I missed that one. I don't expect quality journalism from them, but I'd accept journalism, maybe even poor journalism. This hardly even qualifies as an example of 'journalism', pronounced with much wiggling of fingers.
20/12/2006, 10:26 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

We are in the realms of utter absurdity here. UCD, for example, come second in the off-field rankings.

Yeah it's absurd that one of the best run clubs in the league managed to score so high.:rolleyes:
21/12/2006, 2:56 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Yeah it's absurd that one of the best run clubs in the league managed to score so high.:rolleyes:

Best run ? You have a mickey mouse ground that could barely host the league Cup Final safely last seaason. U have no fans, no local identity, and ur stadium is a sh!t hole.

In a mediocre league, u do very well. Let's hope events catch up and leave you minnows behind.... :rolleyes: I love the whole romantic notion of a University club, but let's face it - it hasn't worked in die-hard football nations like England and Portugal. It's never gonna work in Ireland...
21/12/2006, 4:29 PM
Student Mullet

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Best run ? You have a mickey mouse ground that could barely host the league Cup Final safely last seaason. U have no fans, no local identity, and ur stadium is a sh!t hole.

Derry must be in a right mess to finish behind us in the IAG results so.
21/12/2006, 4:51 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Best run ? You have a mickey mouse ground that could barely host the league Cup Final safely last seaason. U have no fans, no local identity, and ur stadium is a sh!t hole.

In a mediocre league, u do very well. Let's hope events catch up and leave you minnows behind.... :rolleyes: I love the whole romantic notion of a University club, but let's face it - it hasn't worked in die-hard football nations like England and Portugal. It's never gonna work in Ireland...

Could barely host the League Cup Final last year? Funny that - I recall the general consensus on here, even from ardent ABUs, being that Belfield Park came across really well on the telly with all the work that was done on it. The only reason we barely hosted the game is because that idiot chairman of yours got it into his head that he wanted more money by hosting the game in the Brandywell in front of a bigger crowd and made up some baloney about fire safety.

I think an at-this-stage tedious anti-UCD bias is showing Steve. You've been going on for months about how everyone - particularly UCD fans - should accept the results of the IAG and move forward. Now you're saying they must be wrong because we did so well?
21/12/2006, 5:06 PM
OneRedArmy

Given the move to the Bowl, taking about Belfield is pretty much irrelevant at this stage.

However, to say there was consensus that the League Cup final went well in any way other than the result is ridiculous.

I believe an engineer was requested during the game to assess the risk of the stand collapsing due to the Derry fans doing the bouncy in an overcrowded stand that has the appearance of a large incomplete game of Jenga.

The "seats" behind the goal were shut and those of us who were on the far side were not allowed to stand on the grass bank, so anyone under 6 foot saw absolutely none of the game as the crowd was 4 or 5 deep against the hoardings.

Nice toilets though and the vol au vents in the marquee were to die for.....
21/12/2006, 5:11 PM
Poor Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Best run ? You have a mickey mouse ground that could barely host the league Cup Final safely last seaason.

How barely? I don't recall it being touch and go. Also, plans are at a highly advanced stage to move ground, there's no point in constantly harping on about the current one.

Quote:

In a mediocre league, u do very well. Let's hope events catch up and leave you minnows behind.... :rolleyes:

Events catch up? Care to actually rationally outline what that would entail and why it would not affect UCD and in fact leave us behind?

Quote:

I love the whole romantic notion of a University club, but let's face it - it hasn't worked in die-hard football nations like England and Portugal. It's never gonna work in Ireland...

Right, so if it can't work in England it can't work anywhere else? Have a look at Chile and Romania, it's worked there.
21/12/2006, 5:15 PM
pineapple stu

The seats (don't see a need for "") behind the goal were shut and have been shut for a couple of years.

The stand didn't collapse and was in no real danger of doing so. It's perfectly strong. Do you think it's never been full before?* I seriously doubt your story of the engineering assessment during the game.

Plenty of people were standing on the grass bank - in fact, it was specifially opened for the night to increase capacity.

The crowd was not 4 or 5 deep around the hoardings. With 1181 seats, there were only 1000 standing around the ground in a space 200 yards long, and that's before you take into account (a) those on the hill, (b) the extra few yards for the touchlines and (c) the 30 or 40 yards that the stand doesn't cover the entire length of the touchline. So in order for the crowd to be 4 or 5 deep, everyone would have been taking up two yards or so each! You'd probably get that far, but not most people.

If anyone from Derry wants to post a fact or two, fire away. Otherwise, this is getting rather tedious and proper debate would be welcomed.

* - waits for obvious, stupid "reposte"...
21/12/2006, 5:51 PM
LukeO

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Could barely host the League Cup Final last year? Funny that - I recall the general consensus on here, even from ardent ABUs, being that Belfield Park came across really well on the telly with all the work that was done on it.

I remember watching that final on Setanta and being totally embarrassed that a national final could be staged in a ****hole like Belfield. It looked awful on tv. To be quite honest, I was hoping none of my barstooler mates happened to flick on Setanta that night as it would only reinforce their opinions of the league.
21/12/2006, 6:37 PM
harpskid

To be fair lads, any time i've been in Belfield I always have a fear that the stand will collapse and it doesn't appear to be safe, but as yer moving that's probably irrelevant.

And if UCD are so bad Steve, shouldn't you worry about your own set-up since they came ahead of Derry?
21/12/2006, 8:13 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke O'Riordan

I remember watching that final on Setanta and being totally embarrassed that a national final could be staged in a ****hole like Belfield. It looked awful on tv. To be quite honest, I was hoping none of my barstooler mates happened to flick on Setanta that night as it would only reinforce their opinions of the league.

I felt the same watching Bohs play last year.

If the eL wanted to stage the LC final in a 'good' stadium, they should have nominated a neutral venue at the start of the season because it's a **** poor competition which nobody cared about until they tacked a Setanta cup spot on for Shel^H^H^H^H the winners. Go moan an bitch about it to the FAI.
22/12/2006, 5:46 PM
CollegeTillIDie

Well some of the categories which counted as criteria used for off-field scoring included,playing the players wages on time and up to date, something we were the only team according to the PFAI to do so consistently over the past few years. Which may explain how we scored so highly in the off field criteria.

Anyway this thread is about Dundalk and they are entitled to explanations as are Waterford as to why they did not make the Premier and also why there was a bloody play-off!
23/12/2006, 1:36 PM
Conor H

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Well some of the categories which counted as criteria used for off-field scoring included,playing the players wages on time and up to date, something we were the only team according to the PFAI to do so consistently over the past few years. Which may explain how we scored so highly in the off field criteria.

Anyway this thread is about Dundalk and they are entitled to explanations as are Waterford as to why they did not make the Premier and also why there was a bloody play-off!

No they're not.

The FAI may have said there was a need for transparency but they are not legally obliged to tell Dundalk how/where they failed.

Old news now.99% of the Dundalk fans have accepted the decision and moved on.
23/12/2006, 2:07 PM
holidaysong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conor H

The FAI may have said there was a need for transparency but they are not legally obliged to tell Dundalk how/where they failed.

How is it transparent though if they don't give us this information? I would expect to get it, it would be only fair as St. Pat's got it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conor H

Old news now.99% of the Dundalk fans have accepted the decision and moved on.

I wouldn't say it's quite 99% but yeah most of us have moved on. We are in a good position for next season and feeling confident so this has helped a lot. Philly Hughes staying did a lot to help though - The FAI should give him a medal! :)
23/12/2006, 3:55 PM
LukeO

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

I felt the same watching Bohs play last year.

Hardly relevant, but I would agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

If the eL wanted to stage the LC final in a 'good' stadium, they should have nominated a neutral venue at the start of the season because it's a **** poor competition which nobody cared about until they tacked a Setanta cup spot on for Shel^H^H^H^H the winners. Go moan an bitch about it to the FAI.

Sorry it didn't realise I wasn't allowed discuss things in a discussion forum. I'd love to know how me disagreeing with by pineapple stu amounts to moaning and bitching. :rolleyes:
23/12/2006, 4:49 PM
sonofstan

this has the whiff of the Moscow show trials about it; 'Sorry, Kommissar D. I realise now we were duped by counter revolutionary elements; thank you for helping to turn us back to the true path"
27/12/2006, 11:16 PM
DmanDmythDledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Well some of the categories which counted as criteria used for off-field scoring included,playing the players wages on time and up to date, something we were the only team according to the PFAI to do so consistently over the past few years. Which may explain how we scored so highly in the off field criteria.

That had nothing to do with it actually.