The Play Off

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12/12/2006, 10:10 AM
Gareth

The Play Off

Regards the playoff, I am curious as to whether this is a reasonable explanation or not to the situation? Dundalk and Waterford both entered into the playoff with their final standing in the top 22 undecided. Winning the playoff would have afforded the winning team with a small improvement in their rating over 5 years. Dundalk won but did not recieve a place in the Premier division, but more than likely, they did recieve the small increase in their overall results points over five years. Everyone knew that final positions may not count for a Premier Division spot and if I am not mistaken they signed up to this?

I agree with comments that the process and point awarding should be clarified, at least to the club chairmen anyhow, but playing the playoff was a way of deciding if Dundalk finished above Waterford. In the end, it didn't make a difference to Dundalk it would seem, but maybe it would have to Waterford? Eitherway, until the process is clarified to the chairmen, ambigiuty will exist I guess, but I can see the logic in playing a playoff for final standings requirements? Am I being too reasonable? Would not playing it have resulted in Dundalk and Waterford demanding to know how their final position this season was established, hence causing a problem?
12/12/2006, 10:13 AM
JW.

The playoff should never have happened this season. It was a joke that it was and naturally was viewed in the same terms as the old "promotion/relegation playoff", when clearly its relevance was less than 1pc of the old playoff.
12/12/2006, 10:15 AM
cavan_fan

It had to be played if you were going to use previous years to compare otherwise Dundalk could have said, well we didnt get the opportunity to play a play off which might have improved our score.
12/12/2006, 10:21 AM
Gareth

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW.

The playoff should never have happened this season. It was a joke that it was and naturally was viewed in the same terms as the old "promotion/relegation playoff", when clearly its relevance was less than 1pc of the old playoff.

Can I ask you then how would Dundalk and Waterfords final position this season be decided? Surely they need to complete the season entirely. Its like not playing the final round of games for clubs that can't get in Europe or get relegated?
12/12/2006, 11:11 AM
Sheridan

The purpose of the play-off (and this was blatantly transparent as soon as the league confirmed the fixture would be fulfilled as usual) was to provide the FAI with a measure of plausible deniability had either Shamrock or Galway finished as runners-up in the First Division.

In that contingency, the FAI felt that public opinion would not have permitted them to deny the First Division champions entry to the Premiership, therefore a secondary means of ensuring Shamrock's or Galway's promotion became necessary. Had, for example, Galway defeated U.C.D. in this phantom "play-off", I'll wager that the two clubs (or Galway and another marginal candidate, such as Waterford, Bray etc) would have been ajudged inseparable on "off-field" criteria, with the addition of the play-off point proving decisive.

This safety net was knackered when Galway only finished fourth and Shamrock won the league, exposing the eventual play-off for what it consequently became, the most shameful charade ever perpetrated on an Irish football field.
12/12/2006, 11:29 AM
Partizan

The play-off as it transpired meant diddly eyed squat to either Dundalk or Waterford. It was only worth 10 points to either side. Had we won it, we'd still be down simple as.
12/12/2006, 11:44 AM
Gareth

Regardless of whether the points made a difference or not, the game would still be played to complete the final positions. I am sure there was some form of cash bonus for finishing a place higher ( a fiver probably :)). Nonetheless, the game would still need to be played. If it was a crucial ten points, would you complain if it wasn't played?
12/12/2006, 12:39 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheridan

exposing the eventual play-off for what it consequently became, the most shameful charade ever perpetrated on an Irish football field.

Knocking Dublin City FC off that particular pedestal.
12/12/2006, 12:58 PM
holidaysong

What a waste of time and money that trip to Waterford was.
12/12/2006, 1:25 PM
dfx-

Quote:

Originally Posted by holidaysong

What a waste of time and money that trip to Waterford was.

The euro drops. Can you try tell that to every other whinger around moaning about the play off?:)
12/12/2006, 1:35 PM
JC_GUFC

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Knocking Dublin City FC off that particular pedestal.

To be fair I don't think it comes near.

The whole purpose of the new FAI league is to bring better run more "professional" clubs to the top level of Irish football thereby improving the product.

In the playoff both Dundalk and Waterford had players unavailable due to holidays.

When I and others have previously queried as to why Dundalk play on Thursdays rather than a weekend night we've been informed that Dundalk make more money by renting out their bar on Friday nights.

Based on these 2 points alone Dundalk hardly fit into the category of a "professionally" run club.

I feel sorry for Dundalk fans to have "promotion" taken away from them in this manner and it's not how I'd have ideally liked United to go up but can anyone honestly say they think Dundalk would bring more to the Premier Division than Galway United?
That was the whole point of the process in the 1st place.
12/12/2006, 1:39 PM
Poor Student

So maximising their revenue streams is not professional?
12/12/2006, 1:41 PM
pete

I believe this years position in the league was woth 20% of the total so i believe one place worth about 10 points for total score. As the off the field points had not yet been decided there was no choice but to have the playoff.

If for example Dundalk had know in advance that result would not matter then they may not have tried resulting extra 10 points for Waterford which could have ensured they replaced other team.
12/12/2006, 1:48 PM
JW.

Playing midweek - with all the complications that entails for everybody excluding themselves - so they can make a few bob on their bar on Friday nights does not amount to professionalism.
12/12/2006, 1:51 PM
Drumcondra Red

It should have been anounced BEFORAE the playoff was played that it was only being played to complete the season and that it wouldn't actually decide promotion or relegation, that would clear the whole mess up before it started, surely?
12/12/2006, 1:53 PM
JC_GUFC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poor Student

So maximising their revenue streams is not professional?

Refusing to play at the weekend because you want to rent your bar out is a joke. They're a football club.

Letting your players go on holidays certainly isn't. What if they'd got to the cup final?!

This is the ****e that was going on in the 80s and Galway United were well known for it. Changing games for players weddings etc.
12/12/2006, 1:54 PM
WeAreRovers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumcondra Red

It should have been anounced BEFORAE the playoff was played that it was only being played to complete the season and that it wouldn't actually decide promotion or relegation, that would clear the whole mess up before it started, surely?

It was announced but the Dundalk mongs (including their manager) chose to ignore it. Hence all this "we won the play-off" nonsense. The Waterford secretary said on Newstalk last night that Waterford were baffled by Dundalk's celebrations.

KOH
12/12/2006, 2:09 PM
holidaysong

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

can anyone honestly say they think Dundalk would bring more to the Premier Division than Galway United?

Yes. :ball:
12/12/2006, 4:11 PM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumcondra Red

It should have been anounced BEFORE the playoff was played that it was only being played to complete the season and that it wouldn't actually decide promotion or relegation, that would clear the whole mess up before it started, surely?

It was in the document about the new league set-up that that was the case. If Dundalk didn't know (which I don't believe), it's their own fault.
12/12/2006, 6:04 PM
Student Mullet

There should have been no playoff. A simple 2 up 2 down would have saved the silly match.
13/12/2006, 9:55 AM
harpskid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

It was in the document about the new league set-up that that was the case. If Dundalk didn't know (which I don't believe), it's their own fault.

Spot on Schumi. John Gill should be complaining to dundalk fc who obviously didn't spend ample time reading the document. The rest of us knew so why didn't they?
13/12/2006, 10:39 AM
trevy

Most people down here knew it wasn't a relegation/promotion playoff and that it was only to determine points/ranking.I think the game was only worth a small number of points in the end.Dundalks fans and players celebrations at the end did seem over the top and it looked like they were celebrating promotion.I do feel sorry for them to miss out on promotion though but hopefully they and us might make it back into the premier for 2008.
13/12/2006, 7:57 PM
Jerry The Saint

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

The Waterford secretary said on Newstalk last night that Waterford were baffled by Dundalk's celebrations.

Just like the rest of us were baffled by Shamrock's celebrations when they finished first in their division...
14/12/2006, 7:47 AM
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooperatzi

but we were getting our hands on a trophy ;)

unlike some other clubs around the place.....

and had finished yer prison sentence in the graveyard !!! :D
14/12/2006, 10:40 AM
WeAreRovers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry The Saint

Just like the rest of us were baffled by Shamrock's celebrations when they finished first in their division...

Just like the rest of us were baffled that Pats even bothered to show up to the Cup Final.

You're go....

KOH
14/12/2006, 12:17 PM
BlueAsItGoes

We all know now that the playoff was POINTLESS. Now Im a big Blues fan and will support them no matter what but the 1 thing that annoys me the most is.

The Dundalk Player (cant remember his name)that got some serious treatment on the pitch near the end of the play-off game was lucky not to be killed. If anything really happened too that man what would excuses would the FAI have then.
14/12/2006, 3:37 PM
Drumcondra Red

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

It was announced but the Dundalk mongs (including their manager) chose to ignore it. Hence all this "we won the play-off" nonsense. The Waterford secretary said on Newstalk last night that Waterford were baffled by Dundalk's celebrations.

KOH

Oh, sorry, I thought that when it was played that it was as yet undecided whether the play-offs would decided, my mistake!