Quality Exodus from the EL

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05/12/2006, 9:18 AM
AustinoAsprilla

Quality Exodus from the EL

What is really annoying me at the moment is the mass exodus of quality players that are leaving the league just when we really seem to be going places.

Hoolahan, Doyle, Long, Murphy, Foley, O'Callaghan, Forde, UCD trio poss to name but a few. Even Farrelly albeit diff circumstances.

If they all went on to premiership success like Doyle fair enough, or if the clubs here actually got paid properly great, but just when we look like we are progressing in Europe, its such a kick in the teeth to hear of good EL players like R Baker going on "trial" at teams in the SPL or Championship... Surely with the success on the pitch lately, the EL teams should be looking to improve by bringing in players of this quality rather then selling, but if they do then they should be doing good business like every other football team in the world!
05/12/2006, 10:29 AM
McShels

While I agree with the point you are making, I wouldnt class Baker as quality. To be honest I hope he does leave Shels as he was very poor this season.
05/12/2006, 10:32 AM
jebus

No qualms with any EL player going off for a trial with a Championship or SPL side, because it's obviously a step up, anyone who says it isn't has their head in the sand. It happens a lot to English League Two clubs so why not us?
05/12/2006, 10:42 AM
Poor Student

While it is regrettable that the league is haemorrhaging it's not the end of the world. On a micro scale this always happens to UCD and it keeps the conveyor belt moving, more young talent steps up to the plate. I'd rather see the money raised by sales invested into club infrastructure and some young players step into their places.
05/12/2006, 10:43 AM
dcfcsteve

I disagree with your post for a number of reasons.

Firstly - what exodus ?? Half the names you mentioned left 12 months or so ago. In a normal league year we would have c. 180 first team players in the Eircom League Premnier division (12 teams, 15 players). Mentioning less than 10 who are moving across this and last season (some of whom are still merely speculation) does not represent an exodus.

Secondly - George O'Callaghan has hardly 'left', nor as Farrelly. Both their careeres have really gone from strength to strength since they left Cork and Bohs respectively.... :o

Thirdly - the main point is that 5 years ago we wouldn't have had players like that near our clubs at any stage. They would've gone straight to England at the age of 16, and either never returned or become plumbers and shop owners when they did because the EL was seen as such an anti-climax and a joke of a league. At least we're getting a few years good service out of them now as well as transfer money. You could probably name more EL players who've gone to the SPL, Premiership and Championship in the last 3 years than you could in the previous twenty, when it was pretty much just Roy Keane and one or two others. Also - look at the Irish League. How many of their players have moved on to bigger and better things (Ivan Sproule, errr...). Both those things say heaps about the quality of our product now.

Finally - we can't stop players looking to go to a bigger stage where they will get more money, and we all need to stop our crying and wise-up to this fact. It's a bloody good sign for our league that so many of our players are being sought after these days.

So I disagree wioth your post totally. There is no "exodus", and any drift that is occuring is a positive sign of the rising standards in our league
05/12/2006, 11:10 AM
bigmac

Some good points there Steve. We could also point to the Scandinavian leagues - the ones that are regularly held up as examples to us of what the EL could aspire to - and see the same pattern occurring there. What we should be looking for now is gradual progression in the same vein. It would be nice to be able to say in 5 years time that no EL player would go to the UK for anything less than SPL or Championship level football.
After that, it would be nice to see players coming back to Ireland to finish their careers, a la Henrik Larsson. I'm not talking about one last payday, but coming back and investing their experience in the game here as managers, coaches etc.. If Stephen Kenny is a success, then it could prompt more Irish players to begin management careers here rather than a conference club in the UK.
05/12/2006, 11:25 AM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmac

After that, it would be nice to see players coming back to Ireland to finish their careers, a la Henrik Larsson. I'm not talking about one last payday, but coming back and investing their experience in the game here as managers, coaches etc.. If Stephen Kenny is a success, then it could prompt more Irish players to begin management careers here rather than a conference club in the UK.

Well Gareth Farrelly did that, and as far as I'm aware wasn't well liked at Bohs. That aside I agree that it would be good if a lot of players came back to the Eircom League to finish their careers. The only problems with that though are that usually when players consider retiring it's because their bodies are spent, and we hardly play touch football here, so they may be worried about that. Plus with the amount of money floating around the English leagues to a player with a decent bit of talent these days there wouldn't be any cash insentive whatsoever for someone like Kevin Doyle to eventually return
05/12/2006, 8:34 PM
CollegeTillIDie

The exodus of quality to richer pastures is not a problem unique to this country. Until the EL is bankrolled by Irish Billionaires and Clubs here can pay ridiculous wages, that is the way it will stay.
06/12/2006, 2:29 PM
dublin15bohs

joxer kelly is going on trial with both notts forest and stockport

stephen ward is waiting to go to england and would go to almost any club
06/12/2006, 2:50 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by dublin15bohs

joxer kelly is going on trial with both notts forest and stockport

Neither of those clubs is a step-up in playing standards from the top of the EL to be honest - particularly Stockport.
06/12/2006, 3:25 PM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Neither of those clubs is a step-up in playing standards from the top of the EL to be honest - particularly Stockport.

In fairness Forest's attendances hover around the 18k mark, they are more than likely to be playing in the Championship next year, and they are former European Champions, so I'd disagree with you saying they aren't a step up from the EL. Plus I'd personally rate League One as a better league than the Eircom Premier League any day
06/12/2006, 4:48 PM
pineapple stu

Nottingham Forest are clearly a step up from anything the league has to offer.
06/12/2006, 6:28 PM
Soper

I disagree with the last two posts.
06/12/2006, 11:44 PM
Kingdom

Hard one to call with Forest. They've got a bigger support and possibly a greater history than anything the eL has to offer. While they are undoubtedly at their lowest level for some time they do seem to be on the up under Calderwood. Usually they're a decent footballing side too so a player like Joxer would fit in nicely. Potential wise it would be good to move to Forest but Stockport would be a disaster.
07/12/2006, 12:11 AM
LukeO

Possibly a better history?? There's no "possibly" about it!

Anyone who thinks there's an eL club bigger than Forest is deluded.
07/12/2006, 9:10 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

In fairness Forest's attendances hover around the 18k mark, they are more than likely to be playing in the Championship next year, and they are former European Champions, so I'd disagree with you saying they aren't a step up from the EL.

What have they got to do with playing standard....? :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

Plus I'd personally rate League One as a better league than the Eircom Premier League any day

I can only assume you don't get to see much League 1 football then...!
08/12/2006, 12:13 PM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

What have they got to do with playing standard....? :confused:

Plenty. First off, if Forest were playing a low standard of football then I very much doubt they would be able to pull in 18k a game at home, especially considering they charge Championship prices to their matches. So even if you hadn't watched a Forest game all season you must conclude that they are playing some good football to keep the punters coming back.

Secondly despite what you may think of League One the Championship is obviously a step up from the Eircom League. You can say that Doyle did well over there til the cows come home, but the fact remains that anyone who thinks playing for Forest next year against the likes of West Brom, Sunderland, Wolves etc. wouldn't be a step up from playing the likes of Cork, Bohs and Shelbourne is seriously deluding themselves about the standard of our league

The fact that Forest are 2 time European champions has nothing to do with current playing standards, but playing for a team that has done what they have done in the past will always be a step up from playing for any Eircome League club

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I can only assume you don't get to see much League 1 football then...!

On the contrary, being a Sheffield Wednesday fan I watch more Championship and subsequent English League football than I do Premiership, and I'm still of the opinion that League One football is more entertaining than the Eircom League. One FAI Cup Final doesn't change that
08/12/2006, 12:44 PM
Soper

You support Limerick though.That can hardly be that entertaining?
08/12/2006, 1:29 PM
jebus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soper

You support Limerick though.That can hardly be that entertaining?

And thats my point about Eircom League football, I may support it, but I'm not going to throw a pair of beer goggles on and say that it's just one step below the English Premiership in quality
08/12/2006, 1:37 PM
Soper

Well, I watch Championship football every 2nd week, be it with a team challenging for promotion to the Premiership, and I would still find Eircom League football 'more exciting'.
08/12/2006, 2:09 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

On the contrary, being a Sheffield Wednesday fan I watch more Championship and subsequent English League football than I do Premiership, and I'm still of the opinion that League One football is more entertaining than the Eircom League. One FAI Cup Final doesn't change that

Again another irrelevant point when the question was about playing standards. The English Premiership is undoubtedly a higher standard (technically) than anything else on offer in UK or Ireland but isn't particularly entertaining.

Bear in mind you watch Wednesday regularly, presumably watch Limerick as well, how much of the top EL teams do you watch and do you feel it qualifies you to make a comparison of the standard?

Too many people on here make ridiculous generalisations on comparable quality of UK vs Ireland leagues based on very little information.
08/12/2006, 2:17 PM
Sheridan

Carlton Palmer told me the Shels team of 2004 would have "walked" League One that season, for what that's worth.
08/12/2006, 5:59 PM
pete

This is a never ending debate & the eL as 10-12 Premier division does not have thre quality to compare with other leagues. However when you take the top 4 out they would be middle Championship to middle League One depending on form. IMO people are fooled by good facilities & big crowds in thinking any real quality in the Championship.

Its like say Celtic would survive in the EPL, however when you judge the SPL as a 12 team average quality its like top half of English League One.