Irish League

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30/10/2006, 12:56 AM
JC_GUFC

Irish League

Just thought I'd start another thread on this coz I'm too lazy to find the last one!

I've been keeping an eye on the start of the Irish League season and am shocked at the poor standard.

Obviously it is the equivalent of having a 16 team league made up of a population space similar to Munster (which has 4 eL clubs)

Again Glentoran and Linfield will be streets ahead of the rest but they're just wasting their time in that league. I found out at the weekend that Loughgall's nickname is "The Villagers" (their fans must surely be known as the Village People!) This surely suggest the town is tiny - or is it really a village?! :eek:

It can't be any good for the big 2 hammering these teams week in week out.

Donegal Celtic wouldn't be allowed play in Division 1 here because of their ground - it's no better than a council pitch in Dublin.

Glentoran & Linfield surely can see from the Setanta Cup that for them to improve in the longterm the leagues have to merge. Apart from those two though it's unlikely any other teams would survive in the Premier.
30/10/2006, 10:12 AM
Jaime

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

I found out at the weekend that Loughgall's nickname is "The Villagers" (their fans must surely be known as the Village People!) This surely suggest the town is tiny - or is it really a village?! :eek:

It's not even a village. The ground is outside any kind of built-up space, in the middle of the mountains with a dangerous hill going down behind one of the goals. But I've heard some of the other gaffs up there are even more isolated. Madcap stuff.
30/10/2006, 10:33 AM
David

The ground is in a village with the infamous police station facing the ground and houses in the vicinity. Not sure about this "dangerous hill" that you are talking about.
30/10/2006, 10:42 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

Just thought I'd start another thread on this coz I'm too lazy to find the last one!

I've been keeping an eye on the start of the Irish League season and am shocked at the poor standard.

Obviously it is the equivalent of having a 16 team league made up of a population space similar to Munster (which has 4 eL clubs)

Again Glentoran and Linfield will be streets ahead of the rest but they're just wasting their time in that league. I found out at the weekend that Loughgall's nickname is "The Villagers" (their fans must surely be known as the Village People!) This surely suggest the town is tiny - or is it really a village?! :eek:

It can't be any good for the big 2 hammering these teams week in week out.

Donegal Celtic wouldn't be allowed play in Division 1 here because of their ground - it's no better than a council pitch in Dublin.

Glentoran & Linfield surely can see from the Setanta Cup that for them to improve in the longterm the leagues have to merge. Apart from those two though it's unlikely any other teams would survive in the Premier.

JC - I agree with pretty much everything you say.

However - it's not really our place to blow raspberries at the IL, or suggest its demise. The very same thing could be said about the EL in relation to the English Premiership or SPL.

No guarantee that either Linfield or the Glens will be streets ahead of anyone this season. Linfield have struggled to score in their last 2 games against sides that aren't traditionally big-hitters in the league. I'm sure they'll find form eventually, but they're currently 5pts adrift after only 6 games.

I think pretty much everyone agrees that there's too many senior clubs in the Irish League, admn it really dilutes the playing talent available.

Hopefully some day we can have an all-island league, but it'll take the likes of Linfield and the Glens to actively want to be part of it, and the smaller IL clubs to see more than just anihilation from it, before it happens.
30/10/2006, 10:44 AM
harry crumb

Linfield and Glentoran would certainly be a great addition to the games we
have at the moment.
30/10/2006, 10:51 AM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

I've been keeping an eye on the start of the Irish League season and am shocked at the poor standard.

Again Glentoran and Linfield will be streets ahead of the rest but they're just wasting their time in that league.

It can't be any good for the big 2 hammering these teams week in week out.

You must be using your bad eye if you are keeping an eye on the IL!

Here is the current table:

1 Glentoran 6 2 1 0 6 2 3 0 0 11 2 13 16
2 Crusaders 6 3 0 0 11 4 1 1 1 4 4 7 13
3 Cliftonville 6 2 1 0 5 2 2 0 1 8 4 7 13
4 Linfield 6 1 1 1 5 6 2 1 0 6 1 4 11
5 Coleraine 6 2 0 1 10 9 1 1 1 4 4 1 10
6 Portadown 6 1 0 2 4 5 2 1 0 5 3 1 10
7 Dungannon Swifts 6 2 0 1 8 8 1 1 1 3 3 0 10

So far I don't see Linfield nor Glentoran being streets ahead, do you? I take it you missed the fact that both were held to draws at the weekend?
30/10/2006, 11:02 AM
JC_GUFC

Well that was Glens first draw of the season and have scored 17 goals in 6 games.

Linfield haven't lost since the opening day of the season and will just click in to last season's form soon enough.

To suggest Cliftonville or Crusaders can sustain a title challenge isn't realistic. At the end of the season there will be at least a 10 point gap between the big 2 and the rest. FACT ;)
30/10/2006, 11:16 AM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

Well that was Glens first draw of the season and have scored 17 goals in 6 games.

Linfield haven't lost since the opening day of the season and will just click in to last season's form soon enough.

To suggest Cliftonville or Crusaders can sustain a title challenge isn't realistic. At the end of the season there will be at least a 10 point gap between the big 2 and the rest. FACT ;)

Well since you are keeping such a close eye on things you will know doubt know that Glentoran will show if they are streets ahead when they fulfill their fixtures in December when they play a few of the other contenders.

I have no doubt Linfield or Glentoran will be there or there abouts at the end of this season. However your opening comments "I've been keeping an eye on the start of the Irish League season and am shocked at the poor standard," and the relative results and league positions demonstrate that your conclusion of "poor standard" has no basis.
30/10/2006, 1:04 PM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

To suggest Cliftonville or Crusaders can sustain a title challenge isn't realistic. At the end of the season there will be at least a 10 point gap between the big 2 and the rest. FACT ;)

I'll be prepared to wager with you on that.:)

I haven't seen Crusaders this season yet, but much as it pains me to say it, Cliftonville's performance at Windsor Park on the opening day of the season was as good as I've seen from any visting team in a long time - that includes Eirecom league visitors to Windsor Park.

I think Cliftonville have durability at present, and quite a bit of talent too - they'll be like **** on a wooly blanket this season.

The Blues aren't firing on all 4, the Glens haven't played anybody yet, and the Ports are beginning to click again.

This one could be very interesting - and close, come the finish.

There will be less than 10 points between who comes second and third.

I'm sure Mr Parker is very pleased with his IL lot this season so far.:)
30/10/2006, 3:48 PM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I'm sure Mr Parker is very pleased with his IL lot this season so far.:)

One game at a time.
30/10/2006, 3:50 PM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

One game at a time.

And also rapidly developing a penchant for footballing cliches this season.:)
31/10/2006, 8:39 AM
Dassa

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC_GUFC

Just thought I'd start another thread on this coz I'm too lazy to find the last one!

I've been keeping an eye on the start of the Irish League season and am shocked at the poor standard.

Obviously it is the equivalent of having a 16 team league made up of a population space similar to Munster (which has 4 eL clubs)

Again Glentoran and Linfield will be streets ahead of the rest but they're just wasting their time in that league. I found out at the weekend that Loughgall's nickname is "The Villagers" (their fans must surely be known as the Village People!) This surely suggest the town is tiny - or is it really a village?! :eek:

It can't be any good for the big 2 hammering these teams week in week out.

Donegal Celtic wouldn't be allowed play in Division 1 here because of their ground - it's no better than a council pitch in Dublin.

Glentoran & Linfield surely can see from the Setanta Cup that for them to improve in the longterm the leagues have to merge. Apart from those two though it's unlikely any other teams would survive in the Premier.

I come from this village. I dont get your point however. Yes Loughgall is a village of 300 people but it shouldnt matter what size a clubs area is as long as we put a team on the pitch which is capable of competing and in the two previous years that we have been in the IPl we have comfortably stayed up. I think the problem with football these days is that some people think everyone should support a bigger team or that all clubs should come from massive towns or cities, however my village has kept a team going in the IPL when other towns like Enniskillen,Omagh, Strabane etc havent been able to or just havent cared. If that was the case the IL would have two teams in it. Another point you raise is that you dont see the sense in Linfield and the Glens hammering teams week in week out. Linfield and the Glens have never really hammered Loughgall in the league so whats your point.

If I pay my money every week through the turnstiles and my team play well enough to stay in the top flight is my money not worthy enough to watch that quality of football because there are less people standing beside me in the stand?
31/10/2006, 8:42 AM
Dassa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaime

It's not even a village. The ground is outside any kind of built-up space, in the middle of the mountains with a dangerous hill going down behind one of the goals. But I've heard some of the other gaffs up there are even more isolated. Madcap stuff.

Loughgall is a village, and in the middle of North Armagh hardly renowned for its areas of mountains, and there is no dangerous hill that you talk about. Did you just make this up as you went along?
31/10/2006, 9:56 AM
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassa

Loughgall is a village, and in the middle of North Armagh hardly renowned for its areas of mountains, and there is no dangerous hill that you talk about. Did you just make this up as you went along?

Was thinking that myself.
31/10/2006, 1:01 PM
NY Hoop

Dont really get this slagging off their league stuff recently. Obviously going on competitive results in Europe, which is the ultimate barometer, our league is stronger on the pitch. But from the grounds that I've been to over the years up there they would still put us to shame down here.

Almost all their grounds have a social club. Can we say the same? If they changed their season to summer football they would get better results in Europe and would be of equal standard. People have short memories it wasnt too long ago that their league was ahead of ours.

A lot of this stems from ignorance as usual. The majority of people here have never been to an IL game let alone the 6 counties.

From talking to a few Reds lads at our game friday it seems that Climville can sustain a title challenge.

KOH
31/10/2006, 11:42 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassa

I come from this village. I dont get your point however. Yes Loughgall is a village of 300 people but it shouldnt matter what size a clubs area is as long as we put a team on the pitch which is capable of competing and in the two previous years that we have been in the IPl we have comfortably stayed up. I think the problem with football these days is that some people think everyone should support a bigger team or that all clubs should come from massive towns or cities, however my village has kept a team going in the IPL when other towns like Enniskillen,Omagh, Strabane etc havent been able to or just havent cared. If that was the case the IL would have two teams in it. Another point you raise is that you dont see the sense in Linfield and the Glens hammering teams week in week out. Linfield and the Glens have never really hammered Loughgall in the league so whats your point.

If I pay my money every week through the turnstiles and my team play well enough to stay in the top flight is my money not worthy enough to watch that quality of football because there are less people standing beside me in the stand?

Whether we we like it or not, football is all about money these days, and increasingly so.

It has always been that way to some extent. There is a very clear correlation between the size of an area that teams come from and their level of success on the pitch, and that correlation has been in-place pretty much since the creation of the game. I saw the results of an academic study on this last year, and they were fairly conclusive. It should be no shock that the most consistently successful teams in European leagues, for example, come from big and/or wealthy connurbations.

What allows Loughall to buck this treand is the fact that the Irish League is financially retarded and has little public support. If active interest in the Irish League only doubled, the increase in funds that that would give to almost every other club relative to yours would see Loughall struggling to stay in the upper-half of the Premier Division. If the Irish League was as popular as the SPL, for example, you'd be back in the intermediate divisions or below.

This isn't designed to knock your club, who have obviously done great work to get your team to where they now are. But you shouldn't be under any illusion that that has been done despite the tiny community your club has sprung from, and it is the lack of appeal of the IL that has enabled you to invert the normal rules of footballing success.
01/11/2006, 9:48 AM
Dee75

The institute manager was interviewed on Radio Foyle last night, they were relegated to the first division last season. I could not believe this when he said it but there are no linesmen (referees assistants) in the Irish League First Division. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard
01/11/2006, 12:56 PM
Dassa

yea remember Loughgall playing in 1st division. Thye reason was that there wernt enough qualified officials to go around.
02/11/2006, 8:02 AM
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Irish League is financially retarded and has little public support.

People in glass houses and all that. But sure don't let that stop you having your usual wee dig at the Irish League. :rolleyes:
02/11/2006, 11:27 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

People in glass houses and all that. But sure don't let that stop you having your usual wee dig at the Irish League. :rolleyes:

Grow up with your 'usual wee dig' ballax David. You know full well that I go to watch IL games when I'm home, as I've said it enough times on threads you've been involved with. My opening post on this thread was hardly what could be considered a dig, and was actually defending the IL, so that blows your paranoia right out of the water...

The EL isn't much better than the IL, but one area where it is better is re the catchment area/potential of its Premier teams.

Regardless - my post was about the IL solely. I'd be happy to echo the same sentiment re the EL on a relevant thread, should you wish to start one...
03/11/2006, 4:13 PM
oriel

Just reading all of this now.

JC-GUFC, i think you`re being a little harsh on the IL. I moved to Newry 3 years ago and have seen some very decent sides visit, mainly Glentoran and and Linfield, both took around 500 fans and their teams passed the ball around fantastic and played very attractive football, i really enjoyed watching them.

NY Hoop, thats a great point you made re social clubs, a few years ago I was at a pre season game between Crusaders and Dundalk on a sat afternoon, this is a fact, there were more people in the social club boozing than at the game, i had a few drinks before the match and I was amazed at the buzz of the club, people coming and going all the time, it was located right at the end of a residential street, cant talk for other IL clubs, but I hear a similar daily trade exisits in other Belfast clubs. My club Dundalk on the other hand have a great social club, but it only operates effectively Thurs - Sun nights with no day trade, I`d say most other eL clubs are the same, (those with social clubs that is)

Finally if the IL changed to summer football and the top 3 clubs went full time, I`d say there would be fxxx all in the difference in standard.

What I would agree though is our bottom half of the premier and top maybe 3 clubs in the first div would appear to be a lot lot stronger that a lot of IPL teams apart from the usual suspects of Glentoran, Linfield, Portadown and maybe Clifftonville this year, Dungannon.

Until we (the eircom league) can attract average crowds in excess of 3,000 per game and consistently get past 2 rounds each year in Europe we are in no position to judge another league especially the one closest to us.
05/11/2006, 2:06 AM
BohsFans

Quote:

Originally Posted by oriel

Until we (the eircom league) can attract average crowds in excess of 3,000 per game

Why?

What has 3,000 got to do with anything?
05/11/2006, 4:05 PM
oriel

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsFans

Why?

What has 3,000 got to do with anything?

Thats the avg crowd in the lowest div in england thats why, if we cant attract that here we might as well give up