Dingle gets its name back

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20/10/2006, 6:42 PM
pete

Dingle gets its name back

An overwhelming number of those polled in the Dingle - An Daingean place-name plebiscite have voted in favour of retaining the name Dingle.

Results just announced show that 1,005 people voted for Dingle and 70 voted against.

The ballot drew a response of 89.6% from more than twelve hundred residents deemed eligible to vote.

The official name of the west Kerry town was changed from Dingle to An Daingean in 2005 under legislation governing placenames in Gaeltacht areas.

Huge majority vote to drop An Daingean

You have to wonder why they changed the first in the first place as no one used the "new" name.
20/10/2006, 7:53 PM
dahamsta

Commiteeeeees pete. Commmmiiiitteeeeeeeeeees.
20/10/2006, 9:22 PM
the 12 th man

I'd say its caused a lot of grief for foreign tourists here in the last few years trying to get to Dingle and not a signpost in sight for it.It just doesn't sound right (An Daingean) imo.
21/10/2006, 8:07 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Back on topic. I am a fan of the first Official Language of the State.
I have no objection to the Irish name for towns and cities being given prominence in Gaeltacht areas. However, we should put the English version in brackets, maybe in smaller type face which would be appropriate.

The important thing is not to make the same mistake the Welsh made in North Wales. They change place names to Welsh version overnight. No problem with that per se , but there was NO TRACE ANYWHERE on any road signs of the old names for the place. Like I said smaller type face in brackets would have sufficed. One example would be this . There was a town in North Wales formerly known as Port Dinorwic. Now that doesn't look particularly Anglo. The Welsh for it was Y Fallenhalli or something similar. It bears No resemblance to the English version at all.

Many Irish names for example Carraig An tS�ir are not a million miles divorced from Carrick on Suir and you could have a stab at working it out.
Others like B�ile �tha Cliath instead of Dublin or P�rt L�irge instead of Waterford could leave people from abroad , not in the know, scratching their heads. The actual vote decided to select DAINGEAN U� C�IS (Dingle) as the name. Which addresses all the needs of everyone.

The idea of calling it just An Daingean was silly as there are at least three other Daingean's in different parts of the country.
There is one for example on the outskirts of Galway city in another Gaeltacht area and that could cause confusion as Gaeilge never mind as B�arla.
21/10/2006, 8:13 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahamsta

Commiteeeeees pete. Commmmiiiitteeeeeeeeeees.

Yes similar to the definition of a camel.... horse designed by committee:D
It was a crazy decision, to change to An Daingean, for reasons I have already outlined.
21/10/2006, 10:05 AM
the 12 th man

Quote:

Originally Posted by theworm2345

If I could find it when I was there, you should have no problem

My post related to tourists not to myself.
So you can't see the problem people would have with this situation?.
21/10/2006, 10:12 AM
noby

But does this mean that 'Dingle gets it's name back', as Pete stated, or is it just the result of an opinion poll of sorts?
21/10/2006, 10:48 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by noby

But does this mean that 'Dingle gets it's name back', as Pete stated, or is it just the result of an opinion poll of sorts?

I think my title is actually incorrect as its just basically an opinion poll but i presume since such a huge majority voted for change then the powers that be will change it.

I believe people will still call it Dingle. I am usually down there maybe 5 times a year & will still use Dingle as i have up to now.
21/10/2006, 2:42 PM
Partizan

The Waterford Gaeltact (with a population of around 2000) is known by the well known English name of Ring even though the official name is An Rinn Ui gCunnach agus an Sean Phoball (Ring & Old Parish-Modeligo). I'm sure there will be an accomodation for both Dingle and An Daingeann Ui Chuis when all the huffing and puffing has died down. Dingle is a brand name and as such brings much needed revenue into the area. In saying that FF policy on the the language is as usual half-arsed and misdirected. (where have I heard that one before)

The native tongue is thriving in Ring and Waterford County Council recently stated that its status is protected and well above the 40% threshhold. In the rest of the county the language is making a comeback with the proliferation of Gaelscoileanna and the reappearance of the spoken tongue in areas surrounding the Gaeltacht. Besides Waterford Local Radio (WLR) frequently broadcasts programmes as Gaeilge.
22/10/2006, 12:36 AM
BohsPartisan

The official name of Kells Co. Meath is Ceannanas (spelling?) but everyone still calls it Kells.
22/10/2006, 4:48 PM
holidaysong

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

The official name of Kells Co. Meath is Ceannanas (spelling?) but everyone still calls it Kells.

No, the official name used to be Ceanannas M�r but they changed to Kells as the official name and Ceanannas (without the M�r) as the Irish version a few years back. Kells with Ceanannas in small print is what now appears on the road signs.

As for the poll in Dingle, Sinn F�in were giving out that it didn't include much of the Irish speaking hinterland of Dingle and was too focused on the mainly English speaking centre of the town and therefore the poll would always results in the English name winning... Personally, I always did and always will call it Dingle.
22/10/2006, 5:17 PM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by holidaysong

No, the official name used to be Ceanannas M�r but they changed to Kells as the official name and Ceanannas (without the M�r) as the Irish version a few years back. Kells with Ceanannas in small print is what now appears on the road signs.

You sure because when I used to get the bus home to Navan at weekends when I was at college the Bus used to be for Ceananas.
22/10/2006, 5:43 PM
holidaysong

My granny is from that part of the country, I remember her talking about it a while back. I'm 99% sure.
23/10/2006, 7:44 AM
noby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Partizan

The Waterford Gaeltact (with a population of around 2000) is known by the well known English name of Ring even though the official name is An Rinn Ui gCunnach agus an Sean Phoball (Ring & Old Parish-Modeligo).

Partizan, you're correct except for the Modeligo bit, which is nowhere near Ring or Old Parish.
Most of the signposts here just say An Rinn, and not the full version, which goes to show that even the council call it by its shortened 'unofficial' name. The english part is usually removed from signs.
23/10/2006, 9:47 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

You sure because when I used to get the bus home to Navan at weekends when I was at college the Bus used to be for Ceananas.

I'm fairly sure the name for Kells is still officially Ceanannas Mor, and coincidentally Navan is officially An Uaimh.

I personally see no problem with having the names of places solely in Irish. Any change causes problems when it happens. Changing a name would be no different, and would eventually die-down. I'm not convinced about the whole 'Dingle is a brand' arguement at all. Ireland is a brand - it is a well known tourism product internationally that people associate very clear attributes to. Dingle is just a place that people like to visit, usually when visiting elsewhere within the Irish 'brand'. If Dingle is a brand, then so is absiolutely any location anywhere with any sort of reputation (e.g. Ballymun is therefore a brand...!). It's ridiculous to assert that people would spend weeks lost in Ireland desperately searching for a signpost to 'Dingle' if the name was changed. They'd know, they'd be told, or they'd ask. And I'd suspect most tourists would probably be supportive of the concept of its name being changed to Irish anyway - after all, they come to Ireland precisely because of its unique culture, history etc, not because it has English place names.

The arguement that you can't call Dingle Daingean because there are already towns of that name elsewhere is also just ludicrous. There are multiple Newcastle's in Ireland, England - pretty much every English speaking country in the world. So let's all change their names, in case the poor and easily-confused toursts end up in Tyneside when they're really looking for a sea-side retreat in Co Down. The principle of avoiding duplication would also work in-reverse and favour the Irish language as well - it justifies Kells's name being changed to Ceannanas, as there are multiple Kells in the country. It would also avoid confusion between Navan and Navan Fort. So - if there really is a desire to avoid confusing duplication of placenames in Ireland, then we'll be back to the drawing board with large swathes of the island...

The vote on the issue is not at all binding. O Cuiv has little interest in accepting it, and has said that if Kerry County Council can present the results to him along with a way to legally change it then he'll consider it. As the Placenames Law is in-place, any such change would require an amendment to the law, which I don't believe he is in favour of doing. Only if he comes under more pressure is he likely to yield on this one I believe.
23/10/2006, 10:08 AM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I'm fairly sure the name for Kells is still officially Ceanannas Mor, and coincidentally Navan is officially An Uaimh.

No, Navan is definitely officialy Navan.
Incidentally anyone know where the name Navan comes from? I do and it has nothing to do with An Uaimh which was the original Irish name of the area.
23/10/2006, 10:41 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

No, Navan is definitely officialy Navan.
Incidentally anyone know where the name Navan comes from? I do and it has nothing to do with An Uaimh which was the original Irish name of the area.

But which Navan are you talking about - the town in Meath, or the fort in Armagh ?

I can see coach loads of tourists wandering aimlessly backwards and forwards across the border desperately trying to tell one from the other....
23/10/2006, 10:50 AM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

But which Navan are you talking about - the town in Meath, or the fort in Armagh ?

Navan Co. Meath. Navan is and anglisized corrubtion of the Irish "Na Abhann" the rivers. The meeting point of the two rivers the Blackwater and the Boyne was an important trading post in years gone by.
23/10/2006, 10:54 AM
wws

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Navan Co. Meath. Navan is and anglisized corrubtion of the Irish "Na Abhann" the rivers. The meeting point of the two rivers the Blackwater and the Boyne was an important trading post in years gone by.

the one thing anout the anglized versions is that they sound nothing like the irish versions - i reckon the anglos were all deaf
23/10/2006, 11:19 AM
Macy

I'm surprised at you steve, not being more sympathetic to someone imposing a name on a place that the majority of residents don't want. :confused:
23/10/2006, 11:24 AM
Partizan

Quote:

Originally Posted by noby

Partizan, you're correct except for the Modeligo bit, which is nowhere near Ring or Old Parish.
Most of the signposts here just say An Rinn, and not the full version, which goes to show that even the council call it by its shortened 'unofficial' name. The english part is usually removed from signs.

Pardon my mistake noby. I know a couple of lads from Modeligo, one a school teacher who were fluent Irish speakers. However there are parts of west Co. Waterford outside of Ring where Irish is spoken but it occurs in areas under the 40% threshold that qualifies it for Gaeltacht status (usually around 5-20%).

However my old hurling coach from DLS College in Waterford is an Old Parish man out and out.
23/10/2006, 12:33 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

I'm surprised at you steve, not being more sympathetic to someone imposing a name on a place that the majority of residents don't want. :confused:

Very good :D

I doubt the name 'Dingle' was wanted by the good people of Daingean when it was first imposed on them anyway, so it's all just a form of restorative justice.... :)