UEFA Prize Money

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16/10/2006, 2:40 PM
eirebhoy

UEFA Prize Money
I don't know if this is already public knowledge. this is for the CL qualifiers:
- All national champions who fail to qualify for the Champions League group stage will receive EUR 160,000
- Each club participating in the first and/or second qualifying round of the Champions League will receive EUR 100,000 per round, unless they qualify for the group stage.
That's �360k for Cork I think.

And for the UEFA cup teams get �70,000 for each round of qualifying and also the first round. This would mean Derry would have got �210k for 3 rounds.

Intertoto Cup teams get �50k for each round.

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/461381.pdf
16/10/2006, 2:48 PM
Peadar

Yeah, we heard that last year but we don't get a cent until after the CL Final has been played.
16/10/2006, 3:03 PM
Dazzy

Thats not taking into account expenses! Which it reallys just covers it living a little profit!
16/10/2006, 3:12 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzy

Thats not taking into account expenses! Which it reallys just covers it living a little profit!

I doubt that. What are the expenses? Flights and accommodation - �10k?

It's also not taking gate receipts into account.
16/10/2006, 3:31 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I doubt that. What are the expenses? Flights and accommodation - �10k?

It's also not taking gate receipts into account.

Your so far off the ball its not funny.

I'd be surprised in Derry did anything more than break even from Europe. Our TV revenue from PSG was disappointing.
16/10/2006, 3:37 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Your so far off the ball its not funny.

I asked a question so I don't know how I could be off the ball... Would you like to answer it so?

TV revenue was another thing I never mentioned either.
16/10/2006, 3:52 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I asked a question so I don't know how I could be off the ball... Would you like to answer it so?

TV revenue was another thing I never mentioned either.

A plane costs around E40-50k to charter and sharing with fans only covers a portion of this. 20 odd rooms in a 4 star hotel probably cost between E150-300 a night, coach transfers, food, new kit, times this by 3 rounds..........

Add that to Derry being hamstrung by a small ground limiting gate revenue whilst being burdened by extra stewarding etc. and drawing 3 team in weak TV markets severely limited TV money.

As I said, I'd be surprised, based on what I heard, if we made anything other than a modest profit.
16/10/2006, 4:00 PM
endabob1

Why would you need to charter flights?
Derry went to Gothenburg, Scotland & Paris how difficult are they to get to from Belfast/Derry airports??
16/10/2006, 4:35 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by endabob1

Why would you need to charter flights?
Derry went to Gothenburg, Scotland & Paris how difficult are they to get to from Belfast/Derry airports??

Its part of running a professional club and being at least 90 mins away from a major airport.

The club chartered flights for Gothenburg and Paris.

In the Goteborg example, they saved about 8 hours travelling time, so fairly significant time saving.
16/10/2006, 5:22 PM
Celdrog

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Its part of running a professional club and being at least 90 mins away from a major airport.
The club chartered flights for Gothenburg and Paris.
In the Goteborg example, they saved about 8 hours travelling time, so fairly significant time saving.

Drogs also chartered planes to Helsinki and Kristiansand
16/10/2006, 8:59 PM
garyderry

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Its part of running a professional club and being at least 90 mins away from a major airport.

The club chartered flights for Gothenburg and Paris.

In the Goteborg example, they saved about 8 hours travelling time, so fairly significant time saving.

And gothenburg didnt and ended up something like three flights and a bus journey from belfast to derry afterwards, the attitude showed through on the pitch.
16/10/2006, 9:23 PM
higgins

Derry will just about break even??????????? :eek:

20K on the flight?
10K on hotel?

Leaves about 40K!!
what else now? food, transfers, security...

Then you have ticket sales and TV money.

Somebody is telling lies :rolleyes:
16/10/2006, 10:03 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

Derry will just about break even??????????? :eek:

20K on the flight?
10K on hotel?

Leaves about 40K!!
what else now? food, transfers, security...

Then you have ticket sales and TV money.

Somebody is telling lies :rolleyes:

Given your clubs recent history of financial transparency I find the rolly eyes amusing.

TV money was, I understand, nothing like the ridiculous six-figured sums bandied around on here (which only English, German and Italian market pay) and only applied to PSG game as the other two weren't sufficiently attractive.

Tickets sales revenue is fairly insignificant in a ground with 2,500 seats from which you deduct sponsors, players allowance, media etc.

I'm just going on what I've heard and I've no reason to doubt it.

The point remains that it isn't a money-spinner in the way winning the Setanta and the League are. This is pure profit as your costs are broadly fixed in these competitions. Progression in Europe incurs significant incremental cost the further you get.
16/10/2006, 10:19 PM
higgins

I never said you made lots of money on the TV or on the tickets! However a quick calculation of 2,000 x 40euro (what was the figure) = 80K ? thats one game on top of the 210K prize money.

Nobody is saying you are going to bid for Henry! but I find the break even comments to be a right joke...

Someone is having you on there or else your doing something very very wrong up in Derry.

Ask Cork fans did they make any money!
Your club is lying to you if it says they didnt. Or else your bonus payemnts are the problem.
17/10/2006, 12:14 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

I never said you made lots of money on the TV or on the tickets! However a quick calculation of 2,000 x 40euro (what was the figure) = 80K ? thats one game on top of the 210K prize money.

Nobody is saying you are going to bid for Henry! but I find the break even comments to be a right joke...

Someone is having you on there or else your doing something very very wrong up in Derry.

Ask Cork fans did they make any money!
Your club is lying to you if it says they didnt. Or else your bonus payemnts are the problem.

Read his posts.

He didn't say we didn't make money - he's just saying we only made a modest net profit, and a lot less than many people expected.

A key consideration is that the money from UEFA is only fully decided once the UEFA Cup is over and all the income is counted and then divided. So we won't actually know what we're getting in proze money until next May, so we obviously have to be careful if we go budgetting anything against it.

Personally, whilst I don't think we made a fortune out of the whole adventure, i do think we made more than the club are letting on. If I was them I'd be playing down how much we made, as otherwise people would take the foot off fund-raising efforts, and it'd put pressure on the Board and Manager to splash the cash. We probably make a mediocre trading surplus on an annual basis, so no doubt the board will want to squirrel away some of the money for the inevitable rainy days.

Goin purely on my own personal assumptions, I've estimated our total dedicated UEFA Cup income to be as follows :

UEFA Prize Money = �210,000
Gothenborg ticket sales (2,000 x �22.50) = �45,000
Gretna Ticket Sales (2,400 x �22.50) = �54,000
PSG Ticket Sales (2,400 x �40) = �96,000
PSG TV Money = �50,000 (pure speculation)
TOTAL DEDICATED INCOME = �455,000 (only �245k received to-date).

I also estimate our dedicated outgoings to be :

Flight charters (3 x �40,000 each) = �120,000.
Hotels (20 rooms @ average �200 a night, x 6) = �24,000.
Luxury Coach Transfers (4 per trip, 12 in total) = �12,000
Food = (20 people, 5 meals per trip �20 per meal) = �2,000
Additional Stewarding costs at Brandywell (assume �5k per match) = �15,000.
Additional Brandywell costs (VIP marquee, new media area) = �20,000.
Reconaissance Trips (�1,000 x 3) = �3,000
TOTAL DEDICATED COSTS = �196,000

These are pure guesstimates on my part, and I've no doubt I've underestimated the costs. I may be way out wth the TV money as well.

The UEFA end of year income will be key, as when you compare the estimated costs and estimated income minus UEFA handout, there really isn't that much in it ($49k - or only 20% of total income net of UEFA). We'll be a third of the way into next season, and the Setanta all done and duested, by the time we see a penny of that money, so it's wise to erase it from any budgeting exercises until much closer to when we receive it.

The real money is made in the Champions League, as Cork discovered by earning over a third more than us whilst playing one round less.
17/10/2006, 12:22 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by endabob1

Why would you need to charter flights?
Derry went to Gothenburg, Scotland & Paris how difficult are they to get to from Belfast/Derry airports??

Aye right - all pile onto a Ryanair flight at 7am on the day of the game to fly into the middle of nowhere.

Any wonder Irish clubs used to get nowhere in Europ with attitudes like that.... :o
17/10/2006, 12:42 AM
Bald Student

Sure Longford went to Wales by boat and it did them no harm.
17/10/2006, 7:49 AM
endabob1

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Aye right - all pile onto a Ryanair flight at 7am on the day of the game to fly into the middle of nowhere.

Any wonder Irish clubs used to get nowhere in Europ with attitudes like that.... :o

Given the financial problems affecting most EL clubs I'd be interested to see the financial return from clubs campaigns in Europe, the prize money seems great but if you're spending 50k on a charter plane (incidentally I doubt it is quite that much) it won't go far.
17/10/2006, 8:14 AM
Peadar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Sure Longford went to Wales by boat and it did them no harm.

Did considerable harm to the league though. :mad:
17/10/2006, 8:34 AM
Dazzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by endabob1

but if you're spending 50k on a charter plane (incidentally I doubt it is quite that much) it won't go far.

IT is that much to charter a plane! People did look into it for the Paris game.
17/10/2006, 8:55 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by endabob1

Given the financial problems affecting most EL clubs I'd be interested to see the financial return from clubs campaigns in Europe, the prize money seems great but if you're spending 50k on a charter plane (incidentally I doubt it is quite that much) it won't go far.

If we hadn't adopted such a professional approach and schlepped to Gothenburg on one of Mr O'Leary's sardine tins (like many of us fans did), I suspect our European involvement would have ended there and then.

As for the 50k charter cost, bear in mind the plane has to fly from base to Derry (empty), Derry to Gothenburg, Gothenburg to base (empty). And then the whole way back again.
17/10/2006, 9:09 AM
endabob1

Don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic that EL clubs are going down this route. As has been said without taking the more professional approach the progress that has been made by EL clubs in Europe would undoubtedly have been slower or perhaps there would have been no progress at all.
I'm just surprised (as a sad accountant by proffession) at the finances of it all. The example of 50k to charter a plane shows the level of costs involved and once the various ancillary costs are taken into account the prize money is not as great as it first seems.
17/10/2006, 9:12 AM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzy

IT is that much to charter a plane! People did look into it for the Paris game.

Yeah but the club is hardly paying the whole fee itself. They'll take up 30 about seats and then the other 100 are sold. I thought they'd be paying a max of €10k for flights and €10k for accomodation but I didn't realise the costs were so big.
17/10/2006, 9:15 AM
Dazzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Yeah but the club is hardly paying the whole fee itself. They'll take up 30 about seats and then the other 100 are sold. I thought they'd be paying a max of �10k for flights and �10k for accomodation but I didn't realise the costs were so big.

But if they dont fill the plane they have to make up the cost themselves.
17/10/2006, 10:04 AM
harps1954

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

He didn't say we didn't make money - he's just saying we only made a modest net profit
TOTAL DEDICATED INCOME = €455,000 (only €245k received to-date).
TOTAL DEDICATED COSTS = €196,000

Although you still have ony received €245k to date, that still leaves a profit of €50k so far with €210k still to come (by your figures). Over a quarter of a million euro is nothing to be sniffed at. You also have not allowed for the seats that Derry would have sold to supporters to travel on the chartered flights, so allowing €150 per seat by 50 supporters by 3 games that would be another €22,500 of income. Also, you would have programme sales, half-time draw ticket sales, replica shirt sales, etc. which would probably boost your income by at least another €20,000. Although you wouldn't have made the millions that people seem to think you make out of europe, I'm sure Derrry still made well over €300,000 profit from Europe (regardless of when the money comes). That's more than a lot of First Division clubs would bring in, in an entire season. Derry done it in 6 weeks.:eek:
17/10/2006, 10:59 AM
pete

I always think if eL clubs can break even on gate receipt s versus expenses & manage to take the prize money as profit then they are doing very well.

I would estimate approx 1,000 euro cost to send 1 player or club member to an away game on average.
17/10/2006, 11:39 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by harps1954

Although you still have ony received �245k to date, that still leaves a profit of �50k so far with �210k still to come (by your figures).

My figures sre purely speculative, and should be treated that way.

The �210k figure from UEFA is also purely speculative, and should be treated that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harps1954

You also have not allowed for the seats that Derry would have sold to supporters to travel on the chartered flights, so allowing �150 per seat by 50 supporters by 3 games that would be another �22,500 of income.

I ahve - I took �10k off the ocst of each charter flight to reflect this (�40k, not �50k). I've therefore allowed for more income in this route than your figures have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harps1954

Also, you would have programme sales, half-time draw ticket sales,

Piddling sums of money to be honest with you. Max of what - �1-2,000 in total across 3 games....?

Quote:

Originally Posted by harps1954

replica shirt sales, etc. which would probably boost your income by at least another �20,000.

Firstly - I emphasised 'direct' income. Merchandise sales are not usually income that can be solely and clearly pinned on certain games. Secondly, we ran out of shirts after Gothenborg, and only got more from Umbro after the PSG games, so we sold nigh-on diddly squat extra due to Europe. Assuming each shirt makes us �15 profit, we'd be lucky if we shifted more than �1-1,500 extra purely due to Europe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harps1954

Although you wouldn't have made the millions that people seem to think you make out of europe, I'm sure Derrry still made well over �300,000 profit from Europe (regardless of when the money comes). That's more than a lot of First Division clubs would bring in, in an entire season. Derry done it in 6 weeks.:eek:

This is all pure speculation though, based on speculative figures - some of which won't be confirmed for over 8 months. I would hope the shareholders' report next March will shed some light on it all though.
17/10/2006, 11:47 AM
eirebhoy

dcfcsteve - We already know how much Derry will get from UEFA. �210k.
17/10/2006, 12:08 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

dcfcsteve - We already know how much Derry will get from UEFA. �210k.

Just looked at that UEFA mag and you're right. My bad - apologies.

They must have changed it, as there used to be no amounts confirmed until they'd worked out the total income.

Scrub everything I've said therefore - we're rich beyond our wildest dreeeeeaaaaammmmmmsssss !!!! :D ;)
17/10/2006, 3:48 PM
endabob1

dcfcsteve

Sure ye have so much money now you could start to pay players the same as the Gretna boys :D
17/10/2006, 4:09 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by endabob1

dcfcsteve

Sure ye have so much money now you could start to pay players the same as the Gretna boys :D

But just not those players....... :p
18/10/2006, 8:32 AM
bohs til i die

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

I never said you made lots of money on the TV or on the tickets! However a quick calculation of 2,000 x 40euro (what was the figure) = 80K ? thats one game on top of the 210K prize money.

Thats not true. Sure dont Derry have to pay a percentage of all gate receipts to their queen?

Im sure I read a Jim Roddy quote about that during the European run.
18/10/2006, 10:06 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by bohs til i die

Thats not true. Sure dont Derry have to pay a percentage of all gate receipts to their queen?

I think what you meant to say is they pay VAT to the Inland Revenue?
18/10/2006, 3:43 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

I think what you meant to say is they pay VAT to the Inland Revenue?

Correct.
18/10/2006, 3:46 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by bohs til i die

Thats not true. Sure dont Derry have to pay a percentage of all gate receipts to their queen?

Im sure I read a Jim Roddy quote about that during the European run.

Good to see the Bohs fans taking up the Rover's offer of trying to out-orange each other. At this rate yee's will all leave the England team's fans looking distinctly un-British...

Rather than the usual petty English-wannabe hoolliganism than you usually indulge in, can we now expect a 'flute-off' the next time your teams play each other ?

If only yee's would all flute off.......