Government failures thread

Bertie is the same as the rest of them, he accepts Money for favours done, and nobody can tell me different.

He must think we are the same sad people from decades ago! They are in the job to line their own pockets, and don't be fooled otherwise. Its about time Irish people stood up for themselves and stopped putting up with all this bull and demand answers.

That other gob McDowell, chicken feed, he should walk out of government and make them call another election, although not one of them parties can be trusted in government. Each political figure should be means tested ie accounts checked and answers to where all there money has come from before being let into government to spend our money (Tax payers) on junkets and Salaries.

I'm sure you all know that we are being ripped off here, the cost of living has shot through roof and i for 1 am sick and tired of it. When they granted the Gas increases last month they told eveyone that the average usage per household was about €680.00 per year, what a load of complete bull!! Mine for one is average €850.00 every 2 months, and we are not in the house from 8am-5pm- mon - friday have it on 2 hours morning and 4 hours evening not every day but obviously the cold days, and longer weekends.

Electricity the same, they are fleecing us and we do nothing about it, did you all know that the TV licence has gone up another €2.00 per year and that bin tag prices gone up recently, so the money they say there giving you as tax deduction in budgets are been taken away with all these other tax'es!!

So for next election do something about it and insist on answer's on your door step and give them loosers stick and make them work for their money!!!


RANT OVER NOW!!!!!!!:mad:

In total agreement Casso, shame is too many people sitting there knowing that, but throwing out the ould the others wouldn't do it any better line. I'm not sure if they will or won't but it couldn't get worse.

And as you say it's up to us to change it. I have to pay 8,000 vrt on a car I've picked up in england, nice one Bertie, rob me to give it back to me in some other lie. You must think we are thick.

I've just bought a Mercedes secondhand 05D and cost me €52,500 that includes VAT & VRT, You can probably say that half the €52,500 was tax.

It is also an import from UK. No matter if or when they get rid of VRT we'll end up paying €3,000 a year road tax, they'll make it back any which way they can.

If they did get rid of the VRT i think people would buy bigger Cars, with bigger engines and they could recoup some money back that way. But typical rip off Ireland.

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Originally Posted by casso36

It is also an import from UK. No matter if or when they get rid of VRT we'll end up paying €3,000 a year road tax, they'll make it back any which way they can.

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True, but at least it wouldn't be illegal on top of everything else.

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I've just bought a Mercedes secondhand 05D and cost me €52,500 that includes VAT & VRT, You can probably say that half the €52,500 was tax.

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...hold on ...I'm just tuning up my violin. :D :cool:

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If they did get rid of the VRT i think people would buy bigger Cars, with bigger engines and they could recoup some money back that way. But typical rip off Ireland.

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VRT shouldn't be touched in this country ..other than to increase it incrimentally. Slash road tax and double, triple, quadruple (or whatever it takes) the cost of fuel at the pump to get you to have a re-think on whether you need to drive those yokes and their ilk.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

...hold on ...I'm just tuning up my violin. :D :cool:



VRT shouldn't be touched in this country ..other than to increase it incrimentally. Slash road tax and double, triple, quadruple (or whatever it takes) the cost of fuel at the pump to get you to have a re-think on whether you need to drive those yokes and their ilk.

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Oh no!! we have a green in our mists!!!:D

Or just vote for the greens and let them take all our money and save the world???

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Originally Posted by casso36

Oh know!! we have a green in our mists!!!:D

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How, oh how, did they let you out the gate of the school? ;)

...and are you running a 24 hour crematorium that you manage to spend 850 bucks bi-monthly on gas?

Same way they let you!:D

Actually was on Oil before summer and converted to Gas my first bill was €925.00 i kid you not!
I nearly fell out of me standing when i opened the bill.

As i've said, were not there during the day and only have it on 6 hours day. mon - fri.
Sat - Sun could be upto 8/9 hours thats about it don't cook with gas. That bill was june this
Year so with 34% hike in charges, i won't be using it much during the winter i'll blow on me hands and wrap blankets around us!!! :D :D

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

VRT shouldn't be touched in this country ..other than to increase it incrimentally. Slash road tax and double, triple, quadruple (or whatever it takes) the cost of fuel at the pump to get you to have a re-think on whether you need to drive those yokes and their ilk.

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Slightly off topic but humour me. Tell me what I should do.Seriously.

I'm 24 and from Dublin. Got married last year, we've started a family so we bought a house. I'm a civil servant so I'm unable to afford a house in a decent area in Dublin. I live in Laois and work in Kildare St. I'm a shift worker. My shift starts at 8 in the morning. I work overtime so finish at 9 in the evening.
Due to our fantastic public transport system, this week I have no possible way of getting in and out of work without driving. Bear in mind that Portarlington is a 50 min train journey and the last train is 9pm from Dublin. I'd to leave the house at 6 this morning to get into work for 7.45.

People complain about commuters using cars? Don't make me laugh. I'll give a very real example from yesterday. My wife's 7 months pregnant and struggling. My best friend lost his closest relative yesterday and she was making the journey in support (funeral was in Dolphins Barn). It takes her roughly 90mins to get ready and there was only 1 train that she could get that would ensure we'd get to the funeral on time. Train arrived (the spanky new one IE have harped on about), she got on. Sat in the station for 40 mins. Doors closed. NO announcement as to what was wrong or more to the point how long it would take to resolve. I rang Heuston to be told they'd be there another hour, and that there wouldn't be another train that would get her in on time. A day wasted. Meanwhile she's having a panic attack because she can't get off the train!
I've no doubt if the opposition were to provide a viable and dependable public transport service they'd clean up on votes. We're crying out for a decnet service but nobody's listening.

I agree with you on some points there but as a regular commuter I find the public transport system very good. Suppose it depends where you are living. Our public transport certainly is underfunded when compared to some countries, though we are immeasurably better off than the English.
There are several problems that need to be dealt with and shouldn't be dealt with by simply hitting the consumer in the pocket.

1. Obviously some areas are badly serviced by PT (not where I live, its quite good). This needs to be improved upon. Places like Navan badly need a train service.

2. A huge public housing scheme to make it affordable for people to live in Dublin within a decent distance of their jobs.

3. The ending of the situation where most of the jobs in the country are concentrated around Dublin.

Kingdom -I'm not anti-Car -though I do think we have to get more people out of their cars in commuter belts. That IE are, quite frankly, an obstruction to doing this when they should be part of the solution is self evident.

Maybe I should've been more specific but my target with the multiple increase in fuel costs at the pump is the person who chooses to drive large vehicles. That's not a neccessity -that's a lifestyle choice -and I think we'd have a better country if we made that lifestyle choice as prohibitive as possible.
At the other end if we rewarded those who choose smaller and smaller vehicles (for example -exemption from road tax for <1.2L) we'd go a long way to cutting down our emissions -if not thinning out the numbers on the roads.

It's reckoned by some that the number of cars on our roads could double by 2020. I believe it was a survey by the auto-retailers themselves that came up with that figure and they then became jittery about publishing it in case it sparked people to realise that that is nothing short of a national emergency.

Way off topic now. Apologies.

There is no long term solution to the problem other than outting serious R&D money into replacing fossil fuels.

Can the general Government failures be split of the thread please?

Everyone drives their cars because there is no realistic alternative at the moment, despite 10 years of virtually unlimited funds.

One quick and easy solution would be the Government to CPO land on the outskirts of the city for park and rides for buses to make use of the bus lanes. This would give people real options after they've been forced out of the cities due to failure of Government in that area. Have them non stop from these to within the canals in Dublin say.

Another would be to supply cie/ Dublin Bus with as many buses as they need to supply the routes within cities.

Afterall this (relatively) cheap and simple solutions, then look at congestion charging for the cities. Fuel duties are fine in theory Lionel, but in practice they only penalise the poor and those in rural locations (who are never going to have the public transport options). I do, however, agree there should be penalties for larger suv's and the likes. Put in an exemption system, if you can prove you work on a farm and genuinely need it for work (and pulling tarquin's horse box at the weekend shouldn't qualify).

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Originally Posted by Macy

One quick and easy solution would be the Government to CPO land on the outskirts of the city for park and rides for buses to make use of the bus lanes. This would give people real options after they've been forced out of the cities due to failure of Government in that area. Have them non stop from these to within the canals in Dublin say.

Another would be to supply cie/ Dublin Bus with as many buses as they need to supply the routes within cities.

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This will help short term maybe but we also need to replace fossil fuels.

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

This will help short term maybe but we also need to replace fossil fuels.

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Long term yes, but also we wouldn't be burning as much, at inefficient engine temps and speeds, if people didn't spend 4 hours a day stuck in traffic jams.

Threads split.

anyone use the bus service in sydney?
its very good.
the one here is awful.
why do we persist with double deckers?
they are minging to be sittin on when it is horrible out.
I am on a luas line and I still wouldnt get it to work.
It is like the New dheli express in the morning with the amount of people on it and it is not particularly fast. and it is not linked with the other line which goes by my office!
I cycle to work. best money I ever spent buying the bike.
would recommend it to anyone who is within a cyclable(!) distance to work.
which reminds me. why do people park in cycle lanes?
its so f*cking ignorant.
But a decent reliable bus service would solve a lot of the problems.
people would use public transport if it got them to work on time with least amount of hassle. you will always get people who would drive regardless but sure good luck to them.

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

I am on a luas line and I still wouldnt get it to work. It is like the New dheli express in the morning with the amount of people on it and it is not particularly fast. and it is not linked with the other line which goes by my office!

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I think the government only like shiney new transport options irrespective of the cost of function.

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

I cycle to work. best money I ever spent buying the bike.
would recommend it to anyone who is within a cyclable(!) distance to work.
which reminds me. why do people park in cycle lanes?
its so f*cking ignorant.

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Been a long time since i cycled & unlikely to start in the winter. Rain & no showers at work is a big downside.
The gardai allow people park in bus & cycle lanes & i've almost never seen them stop it. A well parked car in a bus lane can clog up half the city.

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

But a decent reliable bus service would solve a lot of the problems.
people would use public transport if it got them to work on time with least amount of hassle. you will always get people who would drive regardless but sure good luck to them.

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I drive because i am lazy & flexible working hours. Also the fact that I would have to get 2 buses as they all go into the city centre first. I would be almost faster walking than the bus.

The luas line along the back of the quays might as well be running buses. Would have been built at fraction of the time & cost but of course not as glamour for a Minister to cut the ribbon on a dedicated bus lane. I've lived in dublin for 7 years & transaport system in th city as only got worse.

Interesting information for anybody that still thinks that the Government was working in the interests of the people of this country when it comes to house building, land zoning and related issues....

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BUILDERS and developers bankrolled more than 90pc of the donations to Fianna Fail last year.

The money came largely from gala fundraisers organised by some of the best known names in the Irish building industry.

And an Irish Independent probe reveals that more than one-third of all donations given to Fianna Fail in the past six years came from builders, developers and contractors. The party's close link with developers has come under scrutiny in recent weeks as part of the ongoing controversy over the system of donations to political parties.

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http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=14748

Re: The part in bold, it's lazy journalism that has missed this. Of the 10,000 positions the Government claim to have filled down the country, nearly 6,000 of those are people moving from one regional location to another, e.g. most of those going to Carrick on Shannon are moving from the existing Social Welfare section in Longford.

Of the 4,000 Dublin based public servants that have expressed an interest in leaving Dublin, most have opted for the heavily oversubscribed commuter belt locations such as Drogheda, Kildare etc.

There is still no plan as to what is to happen to those that want to stay in Dublin.

From http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=14749

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Job move shambles as just 750 opt to go

Plan to decentralise 10,000 civil servants at standstill

THE Government's ill-fated plan to move 10,000 public servants out of Dublin has ground to a halt.

Fewer than 1,000 staff have moved in the three years since the decentralisation plan was announced. And the Irish Independent has learned that some of those who have made the move were already based outside Dublin.

The costly shambles was denounced last night by Opposition politicians.

Labour's finance spokeswoman Joan Burton said the latest figures proved the Government had pulled a "political stroke" when announcing the plan in December 2003.

The plan was unveiled in the 2003 Budget by then Finance Minister Charlie McCreevy, who warned it would be an "electoral catastrophe" if the 10,000 transfers had not been completed by the next general election. But only about 750 public servants have moved so far and the Government's Decentralisation Implementation Group (DIG) concedes that, at best, only around 2,000 will be in new locations by the time of the election next year.

The latest figures show that:

* Only about 750 staff will have moved by the end of the year.

* Only two of the 390 FAS head office staff destined for Birr have actually moved to the Co Offaly town - and they were new recruits.

* Not a single one of 11 recent FAS head office promotions has opted to leave Dublin.

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This thread could be a rival for the longest thread ever... How the Government can continue to defend the deal done by Woods, supported by Ahern, is beyond me. I don't object to the state picking up some of the bill, since it was to some degree the state's fault for tying itself so closely to the Catholic Church rather than take a secular route and provide their own resources. However, no deal should've been done until the final figure was known. Or if it was, it should've be done as a percentage of final outcome basis.

Again from the indo/ unison....
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=14749

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Legal deal with religious orders leaves massive bill

TAXPAYERS are facing a €1.3bn payout for compensation to victims of abuse by members of religious orders.

....

In the closing days of the 2002 Fianna Fail-PD coalition the government closed a deal with religious orders giving them a controversial State-guaranteed legal indemnity against any future court claims from abuse victims.

This was in exchange for the orders making a contribution of €128m from their own resources to a compensation scheme.

Then Education Minister Dr Michael Woods and the Taoiseach Mr Ahern repeatedly rejected opposition claims that this amounted to a "sweetheart" deal with the religious orders that would expose taxpayers to a massive bill.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Re: The part in bold, it's lazy journalism that has missed this. Of the 10,000 positions the Government claim to have filled down the country, nearly 6,000 of those are people moving from one regional location to another, e.g. most of those going to Carrick on Shannon are moving from the existing Social Welfare section in Longford.

Of the 4,000 Dublin based public servants that have expressed an interest in leaving Dublin, most have opted for the heavily oversubscribed commuter belt locations such as Drogheda, Kildare etc.

There is still no plan as to what is to happen to those that want to stay in Dublin.

From http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=14749

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The Drogheda move is being held up by senior civil servants who don't want to move.

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

The Drogheda move is being held up by senior civil servants who don't want to move.

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Who don't want to volunteer for a voluntary programme you mean?

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Originally Posted by Macy

Who don't want to volunteer for a voluntary programme you mean?

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No, its not that. Any ordinary staff member who does not volunteer for this programme is dumped on the scrapheap. Yes they can stay in Dublin but their carreer path rapidly becomes a cul-de-sac. They can opt to stay in Dublin but their cannot opt to keep their current position in Dublin. These senior civil servants are holding up the process for everyone who wants to go to Drogheda so they can delay or halt the relocation of their positions. Ordinary civil servants don't have that option.

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

No, its not that. Any ordinary staff member who does not volunteer for this programme is dumped on the scrapheap. Yes they can stay in Dublin but their carreer path rapidly becomes a cul-de-sac. .

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You don't have to tell me. It's just another example of what's wrong with the farcical policy that is going to cost the country billions.

However, you must remember that it suits the Government to delay the likes of Drogheda even for those that want to move - as soon as that move happens it blows their numbers out of the water because they're so heavily over subscribed (whereas they count them all in the 10,000 that have expressed an interest in moving).

Too True.

Come next election this government will be given the boot by the electorate. Then again with the incompetence of the Opposition (with the exception of Joe Higgins) and the gombeen electorate anything can happen.

Anyway I'm quite confident that there will be three opposition TD's in the next Dail, Joe Higgins, Claire Daly (SP) and John Halligan WP in Waterford.

as for the rest..........
FG - FF lite
Lab - FG lite
Greens - dont get me started
SF - Paramilitary wing of FF
PD's - wipeout.

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Originally Posted by Partizan

Anyway I'm quite confident that there will be three opposition TD's in the next Dail, Joe Higgins, Claire Daly (SP) and John Halligan WP in Waterford.

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Don't know much about John Halligan. How much of a chance does he have of getting in. Any poll info? That sure would be a welcome addition. If we can get Joe returned and Clare elected and the WP get someone in and Seamus Healy gets re-elected, there is a good basis for an alliance of working class representatives.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

True, but at least it wouldn't be illegal on top of everything else.

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Adam,

I suggest you get your facts correct before posting, as a mod I would have expected better.

In 1992, when the free market opened up, Ireland, like every other EU country were no longer allowed charge import taxes on products originating in the EU i.e. customs duties.

Excise duties were abolished on a range of products and all EU Member States are only allowed to charge excise duties on three types of products:

Hydrocarbon oils (petrol/diesel etc);
Alchool;
Tobacco products (inc cigarettes/cigars etc).

As a result customs and excise duties were removed from cars and the government of the day needed to recoup the loss to the exechequer somehow. The finance minister at the time was Bertie Ahern and he and his officials in the Department of Finance came up with VRT. It gets technical here but in short, VRT is a charge for the registration number on your car.

Member States are not allowed to charge a tax similar in nature to VAT and this is what commentators try to push when they make their arguments, however EU law does not prevent Member States from charging a fee for a registration number for your vehicle. In fact Member States are obliged to have a system to register vehicles.

In charging this fee, the charge does not have the same legal effect as VAT.

All vehicles normally kept in the state must be registered in the state, any imported cars must be presented to a Vehicle Registration Office by the end of the next working day. ---- etc

However the imposition of the tax is not illegal, the European Commission is trying to harmonise the rate of levies attached to cars accross all Member States, as long as the present Government is in power this will never happen, taxation is one of the areas that their must be complete agreement and Ireland, UK and Denmark will never agree to ANY sort of tax harmonisation, as a point of principal.

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Originally Posted by Soccer Lover

However the imposition of the tax is not illegal, the European Commission is trying to harmonise the rate of levies attached to cars accross all Member States, as long as the present Government is in power this will never happen, taxation is one of the areas that their must be complete agreement and Ireland, UK and Denmark will never agree to ANY sort of tax harmonisation, as a point of principal.

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I think you can be certain that if other EU states used this loophole for other products the system would collapse fairly quickly. The state may claim it is a "registration tax" but when does it cost tens of thousands to register a product. I am also surprised the system of importing cars is not illegal - sure whats to stop the state introducing a similar system for import beef steaks to protect the local industry?

I think the biggest failure of this government is they cannot make easy decisions & they love to spend tax payers money on white elephants.

Why did it take the government so long to make a decision on dublin airport expansion - the airport is a disgrace & embarishing for the city & country. Business people queuing 15 minutes this monday morning to get into a variety of clean/dirty, new/old & overpriced taxis. :rolleyes:

Government spends 100s of millions on Luas & was reading at the weekend that experts saying it not value for money as cannot increase capacity enough in the way a rail or metro system. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by pete

I think you can be certain that if other EU states used this loophole for other products the system would collapse fairly quickly. The state may claim it is a "registration tax" but when does it cost tens of thousands to register a product. I am also surprised the system of importing cars is not illegal - sure whats to stop the state introducing a similar system for import beef steaks to protect the local industry?

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Thats the beauty of the system, as the government had to replace revenue that was denied them with the abolishment of customs and excise duties on cars, and they were obliged to have a system in place to register cars - they levy a high rate of VRT for such registration. My point is that, it may be unfair, but it is legal (not as Adam had implied).

Not many other products require registration, in the same way as vehicles so your argument that other EU states using this "loophole" (your words) doesn't stand up.

Beef steaks are covered by CAP legislation and there is a system that all imports of beef must be under licence from the Dept. of Agriculture & Food. The Dept must enforce the legislation handed down from the European Commission/Council and the Government here are not permitted to deviate from it.

I agree that this government (the same as most governments who have served before them) have wasted taxpayers money on grand projects that are not good value for money, also it should always be remembered that nearly all major projects carried out have vested interest groups lobbying the appropriate Minister, the one that wins out is usually the one – well do I have to explain:rolleyes:

I must confess that i thought of changing my vote next time to FF until i was reminded how hopeless they are at running the government & spending my money.

This government been in power for 9 years & infrastructure is still pathetic in this country. Left got Dublin Aiport from city centre yesterday & took 1 hour (no other transport option available). Took 1 hour to get through security the queues were so long. If they queue was in a straight line would have been out the front door & halfway to the roundabout outside the airport. :mad:

Contrast this with Oslo. Airport is clean open & inviting, built on green field site i think 15 years ago. Train takes 20 minutes for the 50km journey & connect with extensive metro system City of 500k people.

I accept we years behind in infrastructure due to finances but we now have the money. Why has it taken 9 years to start a new terminal in the airport? That terminal won't increase capacity enough anyway? Why 9 years to even start putting Metro out to tender? Its pathetic & embarishing if we want the country to prosper. Business people must not know whether to laugh or cry when see their only transport option 15-20 minute queue for taxis that will then rip them off.

Get FF/PDs out, no one could do worse job of looking after the semi-state & state services - remember they are the only things they actually responsible for for! the government does not create private sector jobs.

:(