Good or bad year for the league

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29/09/2006, 3:40 PM
Dodge

Good or bad year for the league

Good year/bad year for league

Good
Great european run by Derry. Cork and Drogheda doing themselves proud.
Increased Tv coverage
A competetive first division
The merger (if you're pro)

Bad
The tax problems for Shels and Cork
The points deductions for Rovers and Bohs, and Derry being threatened too and the controversy surrounding it
Dublin City folding
A lot of clubs seeing huge downturns in attendance figures
The merger (if you're anti)

Of course there are others but so far this year do you think its been a good or bad year for the league?
29/09/2006, 3:46 PM
charliesboots

just one point, the tv coverage for the first five months of the season was almost non existent, it's picking up a bit now but this was the same last year.
29/09/2006, 3:48 PM
wws

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliesboots

just one point, the tv coverage for the first five months of the season was almost non existent, it's picking up a bit now but this was the same last year.

it was a conspiracy against Pats
just cos we were the best team at the start of teh season
we got blackballed
the league office hates us
29/09/2006, 3:48 PM
Mr A

Was going to vote Meh... but having read the downsides you posted Dodge I honestly feel there's been more bad than good this year.

Expecially the attendances thing- seems to indicate that we're still going in the wrong direction. The European runs are great, but I think any good they do for the league overall is more than undone by the damage from the continous, mostly self-inflicted negative stories.

On the other hand a really tense and exciting finish to both divisions seems in prospect, so maybe a little early to give final judgement on the year yet.
29/09/2006, 4:15 PM
NY Hoop

Voted yes considering its the best year for Irish clubs in Europe ever. CHF dying too was a great boost for the league except for the timing.

BTW there has been no "huge downturn" in attendances. They are down yes but its not fair to compare it to previous years because of the World Cup and the senseless break around it has contributed to a decrease.

KOH
29/09/2006, 4:22 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Bad
The tax problems for Shels and Cork
The points deductions for Rovers and Bohs, and Derry being threatened too and the controversy surrounding it
Dublin City folding
A lot of clubs seeing huge downturns in attendance figures
The merger (if you're anti)

I voted yes as there has everything you mentioned as bad happens every year anyway.

- Shels tax woes predictable, Cork Citys was a once off & only made the media because of revenue crackdown.
- Nothing new in points deductions, happens every year
- Dublin City folding a good thing overall. Bad that happened mid season.
- I don't think there are HUGE downturns. Poor results mean lower crowds for those clubs.

Europe has been a huge boost to the league (not just the clubs involved) & hopefully after the merger the FAI will have more control & so less excuses if things go wrong. Hopefully the problems this year are just a teething issue as we move forward to bigger and better things...?
29/09/2006, 4:32 PM
Student Mullet

I voted good but I had to think about it for a while.

The best thing in the league (I think) is that we have 2 propperly sustainable professional clubs, Cork and Derry. That's something we've never had before.
I think it's no surprise either that these 2 clubs are the loudest to complain when someone elses mistakes impact on them and hopefully this will lead to better management of the league overall.

Also, the standard of football is higher than I can remember it, don't forget that Jason Byrne got a good 30min run out for Ireland and looked quite good.

I don't agree that Dublin City going bust was a positive thing. It was the culmination of years of bad management at the club and in the league as a whole.

Bad points are all the same, woefully bad management of the league. The Merger is positive in this respect because it will remove the false wall the FAI and the league draws between themselves. The league next year will be run by a committee which Delandey will chair so there will be no dodging bullets when mistakes happen.
29/09/2006, 4:39 PM
NY Hoop

CHF going bust was positive in the fact that it should be an end to clubs just parachuted into the league with zero fans or prospects.

You forgot Rovers as a properly, sustainable professional club. Absolutely everything from top to bottom is done properly and professionally. Unfortunatley there are some clubs who are still living in the dark ages and these are holding the professional ones back.

KOH
29/09/2006, 4:43 PM
pineapple stu

I don't see how a properly sustainable professional club would have had a winding-up order issued against it?

Also don't know if there was increased TV coverage. Certainly not on last year anyway, though the level is obviously still great.

Tough question, I think. The Revenue clampdown is actually a good thing, I think, in that it's doing the FAI's job for them. Clubs are now having someone forcing a small bit of cop on to them. Not too fussed about Dublin City, although obviously it was bad publicity for the league.

Overall though, we've had nearly 15% of clubs before court for serious financial problems. I don't think anyone - bar Rovers, and they went there themselves - has done that before. So I'm going to go bad, largely on that basis and the merger. The FAI trying to force ground sharing is another factor tending me towards bad.

I'd almost say on the field, it has been one of the best seasons ever, but off the field, it's been the worst season ever. The FAI's incompetence overshadows the players' abilities.
29/09/2006, 4:44 PM
Student Mullet

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

CHF going bust was positive in the fact that it should be an end to clubs just parachuted into the league with zero fans or prospects.

You forgot Rovers as a properly, sustainable professional club. Absolutely everything from top to bottom is done properly and professionally. Unfortunatley there are some clubs who are still living in the dark ages and these are holding the professional ones back.

KOH

I meant professional as in full time players.

There are a good few clubs run by the books but they've always lost out on the pitch to clubs running at a big loss (think of Rovers getting relegated by CHF for an example). This is the first time I can remember that clubs being well run are fielding full time teams and competing at the top of the league.
29/09/2006, 4:45 PM
dfx-

Bad. The competitiveness of the First Division doesn't show in the crowds except for when Rovers are visiting, still no coverage of it either. The merging thing can't be seen as positive util we see how the FAI try to run it....Dublin City still existing was bad enough for the league, the fact that they got through the licencing process when it must have been clear they were on their last legs, the refereeing is even worse, the administration around the points deduction has been hopeless, the financial orders regarding Shels and Caark in the public domain, the Herald continuing to spout sh!te..

The European successes are drops in oceans in comparison to the same old same old in the league. I'd rather have the entire league on a solid footing and get beaten 15-0...at least you could say then that the league is going somewhere.
29/09/2006, 4:50 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by d f x-

Bad. The competitiveness of the First Division doesn't show in the crowds except for when Rovers are visiting, still no coverage of it either. The merging thing can't be seen as positive util we see how the FAI try to run it....Dublin City still existing was bad enough for the league, the fact that they got through the licencing process when it must have been clear they were on their last legs, the refereeing is even worse, the administration around the points deduction has been hopeless, the financial orders regarding Shels and Caark in the public domain, the Herald continuing to spout sh!te..

The European successes are drops in oceans in comparison to the same old same old in the league. I'd rather have the entire league on a solid footing and get beaten 15-0...at least you could say then that the league is going somewhere.

Dear sweet jesus this is the kind of thinking I was talking about. The European results are far from "drops in the ocean". They are absolutely crucial for the league. And if you have to ask why forget it:rolleyes:

Summer football has been the best ever success for this league because of the European results. 9 wins in Europe this summer. I remember in 1988 no Irish side even scored a goal let alone win a game.

Of course we all want the league to be run properly and professionally but European success is critical as well.

KOH
29/09/2006, 5:00 PM
manic da hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Trader

How anybody can say this has been a good year when you have two of the top 3 clubs being served winding up notices

The winding up orders are not a true reflection on 2006 as such. Instead they should be viewed as the end product of how so many clubs have done business for years. If anything the fact that this year has seen such problems finally come to the surface where they can at least be tackled must be taken as a positive. In 2005 SRFC was forced to go public about years of mismanagement. It was bad PR to declare that we owed millions, had to go into examinership, take an eight point deduction on the chin and, as a result, get relegated. Despite all that I, among most Rovers fans, would regard last year as a watershed for us, and therefore was positive.

CHF going out of business (albeit in a less than credible manner for the league) in another change that in years to come we will be grateful to 2006 for.

And as for dfx's 'drop in the ocean' remark about Europe. I'm afrais all he's gtting from me for that is a:rolleyes:
29/09/2006, 6:39 PM
sfc red

Eh hello there, we won three games in Europe too.
29/09/2006, 9:46 PM
dancinpants

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfc red

Eh hello there, we won three games in Europe too.

Aw bless...did we forget about ye petals :(
30/09/2006, 12:56 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

A lot of clubs seeing huge downturns in attendance figures

That's a huge statement to make, with very little evidence to back it up.

A couple of clubs have undoubtedly had a reduction in attendances. But how much of that is purely done to Summer football rather than other factors (weather, World Cup, this year's GAA campaigns etc).

Meanwhile, a couple of clubs have actually had an increase in attendances, which counteracts your assertion.

So it's neither "a lot" of clubs nor "huge" downturns.
30/09/2006, 1:10 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

That's a huge statement to make, with very little evidence to back it up.

The eveidence is in the attendances thread

Quote:

A couple of clubs have undoubtedly had a reduction in attendances. But how much of that is purely done to Summer football rather than other factors (weather, World Cup, this year's GAA campaigns etc).

Where did I state reasons for it, of course there are loads of factors

Quote:

Meanwhile, a couple of clubs have actually had an increase in attendances, which counteracts your assertion.

So it's neither "a lot" of clubs nor "huge" downturns.

Most are down. i consider that a lot. The clubs that are up are Derry and who? maybe Shels. Even Cork's are down slightly. No one else is significantly up and overall, crowds are down (based on the thread here)

Seeing as some had trouble I'll explain the other factors I mentioned'

Good
Great european run by Derry. Cork and Drogheda doing themselves proud. Obvious
Increased Tv coverage It is increased, its not ideal
A competetive first division Again, it is, and is getting slightly more coverage than usual. Only slightly.

Bad
The tax problems for Shels and Cork I never indicated these were ongoing problems but if anyone doesn't think these incidents have hurt the image of the league in the public eye, they're deluding themselves
The points deductions for Rovers and Bohs, and Derry being threatened too and the controversy surrounding it Makes a mockery of the league, as does Ollie's continued fighting
Dublin City folding Most wanted them gone but again if you don't think that a premier division club folding doesn't hurt the image of the league...
30/09/2006, 1:12 AM
dfx-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Trader

Did you ever here of that old adage dont run before you can walk ? I think it holds true here.

To judge 2006 as a good year for the league based on (albeit great, terrific, fantastic etc.) European results is false, in my opinion

Outside of European results, what exactly was good about this year? Nothing else Dodge says strikes me as undoubtedly positive..is there anything else? CHF being expunged caused chaos, so that can't exactly be positive.
30/09/2006, 2:16 AM
gustavo

For those that say it has been a bad year what would the criteria have been for it to have been a good year?
30/09/2006, 4:00 AM
EireBadBoy

I voted a good year, because it has been. The negatives made me think about my vote but I do believe the positives far out weigh the negatives for once.

Not to be cliched, I'll use the Italian League (as opposed to "well a Premier League team...yadda,yadda") as an example to thwart the tax pants thing. As a Derry fan obviously I'd put Europe up there but let's not forget no EL team did themselves a disservice in Europe this year, we are getting there, collectively. Last year the league was robbed of players but we've only lost Georgie so far - that's a bonus ;)

I am truly saddened by the demise of Dublin City, as a football supporter I hate to see team vanish, it affects a lot of people and a football team is something sore to lose. Nothing the fans have posted since have enamoured themselves in glory though.

The way I'm judging it is since I got into the EL this year has seen massive media coverage (3 years ago the league got not an inch in any paper/TV/radio) so, onwards and upwards.
30/09/2006, 8:09 AM
Mr A

Quote:

For those that say it has been a bad year what would the criteria have been for it to have been a good year?

Off the top of my head:

No clubs going bust and leaving the table in a mess.
Freedom from controvesy and administrative disasters.
No clubs facing winding up orders.
Officiating that isn't so bad that even the refs admit it.
Increasing attendances.

In fairness I think we may just be so used to maladministration etc that we're used to it while European progress is fresh and new- so it outweighs the negatives to many. It may be in the long run that this season turns out to be a great step forward, but at the minute it looks a bit ropey as far as I can see.
30/09/2006, 9:52 AM
Soper

No league is perfect though, is it?We've had a good year, I can't see what good it would be investing all the effort in making everything tick right, at the expense of European results which are undoubtedley benefiting the league.
30/09/2006, 11:04 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soper

No league is perfect though, is it?We've had a good year, I can't see what good it would be investing all the effort in making everything tick right, at the expense of European results which are undoubtedley benefiting the league.

So you'd be quite happy with a club going bust every season and the league being dragged through the court just to see a couple of clubs do well in europe?

The reason I started the poll was beacasue this should've been a great year for the league but with the continued **** ups from the league and club admin, its just getting ridiculous
30/09/2006, 11:09 AM
Bald Student

I voted good because the league is a footballing competition and on that basis it's done well.

Off the field it's the second worst year I can remember (after the registration season) but on the field is more important.
30/09/2006, 12:15 PM
Dr.Nightdub

Voted Meh... on the basis that Ollie's threatened court case over the Bohs match has the potential to make this season as farcical as the registration season. Considering that the League run-in is most likely gonna be between Derry and Shels, the fact of Shels looking to earn three bonus points via the courts is a bigger time-bomb than any tax problems, drop in attendances or whatever.

Hard one to call apart from that - a lot of excellent progress in football terms being negated by a lot of off-the-field cr�p. What's the point in the clubs getting their acts together if the FAI continue to meander on like a bunch of retards let out on a day trip - they may as well replace Delaney by Dustin Hoffman's character from "Rain Man", he'd probably do a better job.
30/09/2006, 4:33 PM
gustavo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galway Harps

Off the top of my head:

No clubs going bust and leaving the table in a mess.
Freedom from controvesy and administrative disasters.
No clubs facing winding up orders.
Officiating that isn't so bad that even the refs admit it.
Increasing attendances.

.

But only one of those things is a positive the rest are no negatives , Surely the criteria for having a good season is when good things happen not when bad things dont happen
01/10/2006, 12:26 AM
dfx-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

So you'd be quite happy with a club going bust every season and the league being dragged through the court just to see a couple of clubs do well in europe?

Yep 'we' won games in Europe despite the league, not because of it.
01/10/2006, 3:10 PM
damien

i voted yes. It has been a good season on the field but off the field it needs to be sorted out by the clubs and the fai.
01/10/2006, 6:01 PM
Soper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

So you'd be quite happy with a club going bust every season and the league being dragged through the court just to see a couple of clubs do well in europe?

The reason I started the poll was beacasue this should've been a great year for the league but with the continued **** ups from the league and club admin, its just getting ridiculous

No, I wouldn't be happy about that at all.There needs to be progress made on both aspects , rather than focusing on one.I wouldn't be happy if every effort was made to make all clubs at least financially sustainable, and this resulted in teams going back to getting drubbed in Europe.The European results this year have done a world of good for the league, but again it's not perfect, but as I said, at least it's something.
02/10/2006, 9:03 AM
Macy

I voted meh, but only just above no. The european performances have been great , and Derry doing it in an apparently sustainable way is even better. That just about lift's it above the usual sh�te.

On the negatives...

Attendances are down. This has to be addressed, and the real reasons for this must be found out. This requires investment in proper research rather than more boll�xology such as "more people will watch in the summer because the weather is better". It's been the best summer for years.

CHF going bust, and the Shels tax issues are good in the long run. However, they show the cronic failure of the FAI lead licencing system. It should never have got this stage mid season, as they should never have got a licence to compete. Cork I'm not sure off, as they appear to be run okay considering their team is suffering from not replacing people, so I suppose more inclined to believe Lennox.

Ollie threatening more court action to try and win the league is just farcical. One of the first things the FAI should do is instigate draconian punishment for clubs that go to the courts and lose.
02/10/2006, 11:37 AM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by d f x-

Yep 'we' won games in Europe despite the league, not because of it.

Wrong. The European games we won in 2003 were because the league season was changed. But you would'nt have minded losing 15-0:rolleyes:

KOH
02/10/2006, 4:21 PM
jebus

Bad, because of the lack of proper promotion/rekegation. Made the whole year completely nonsense for me. Obviously if you are Shels, Derry, Cork etc. this will be considered a minor gripe, but as a fan of a team who had ambitions to push for the 1st Division title this year it made the whole thing seem a bit of a shambles
03/10/2006, 11:44 AM
dcfc_dee

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebus

Bad, because of the lack of proper promotion/rekegation. Made the whole year completely nonsense for me. Obviously if you are Shels, Derry, Cork etc. this will be considered a minor gripe, but as a fan of a team who had ambitions to push for the 1st Division title this year it made the whole thing seem a bit of a shambles

i would agree with you on this point
03/10/2006, 12:55 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

I voted good because the league is a footballing competition and on that basis it's done well.

Off the field it's the second worst year I can remember (after the registration season) but on the field is more important.

I think it's an overly simplistic view to just view the league as a footballing competition. Off-field factors are just as important if we want more people to stop looking down on the league and come to games.
03/10/2006, 3:17 PM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Off-field factors are just as important if we want more people to stop looking down on the league and come to games.

I'd say more so given the way the press like to report our league. Negative off the field stuff gets far more coverage than the positives.
04/10/2006, 12:36 PM
oriel

Voted Yes as after watching 3 previous years of rubbish football, finally the First Div is an entertaining place once again - having seen any premier div games but its obvious that standard too has improved with the euro results.

attendances not as good as expected, but this should increase big time with better marketing for new FAI lge next year
04/10/2006, 12:55 PM
Shelsman

We had the Setanta Cup again this year -this is great.

Dublin City going out of existence is terrific..

Bohs starting to turn into a massive club is great too -they might be the ones who make the break through to another level in Europe in the years to come as a result of the sale of Dalyer.

European results were unprecendented ( all four progressing a round ) and Derry's display away to Gretna was possibly the best football played by an Irish club in Europe ever.

Points deductions are unfortunate but not a major issue.

Winding up orders were given but no club folded for this reason.

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