John Giles resignation and Stan

John Giles resigned after the first qualifying game for WC 82. It was against Cyprus away and we won 3-2. Giles felt he had taken the team as far as he could. And honorably resigned in MO. OK obviously not his first competitive game in charge. But here we are again going to Cyprus and it all feels eerily similar. The result will be crucial. Anyone thinking ahead to the Czech game please stop now. As this Cyprus game is no forgone conclusion. And I for one do not believe Stan will resign even if we don't win. What will the FAI do then? Fire Stan and pay off a 4 year contract? Don't think so. Are they even thinking about this possibility? I doubt it. They should be.

I see no similarities whatsoever. Giles had been a failure as national manager but had had a fair crack of the whip. The fans never took to his "Mick Martin passes to Giles who passes back to Martin who passes sideways to Dunne who passes back to Martin who loses possession in front of the goal and the opposition" score type of football.

Staunton, on a 4 year contract, has lost his first game narrowly to the 3rd best team in the world on their patch and he might consider resigning. I find all this anti-Staunton stuff at this stage laughable. Talk about not giving someone a chance. Not my choice of manager but let's see how things go - I would have thought that obvious. The fickle fan: you can't beat him.

Great post owls fan,

Plently of fickle fans around here...

and I'm sure their was NI fans calling for Sanchez's head after they lost to Iceland last week......what happened next?

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Originally Posted by nedder

Great post owls fan,

Plently of fickle fans around here...

and I'm sure their was NI fans calling for Sanchez's head after they lost to Iceland last week......what happened next?

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he resigned himself ;)

:D :D :D

We will just have to wait and see which supporters change their tune. The pro or anti Stans? Hope Im wrong, but I'd be pretty confident it will be the pro's.

Kerr had the goodwill and general support of the majority of the fans when he took over. "Well he deserves his chance" was echoed.
Stans tenure began with shock and disbelief, and imo, will end in farce.

Yes Owls, I'm glad you got out of bed early to nail this stupidity on the head.
But, Giles had arguably the best home record of all, undefeated 6 wins 3 draws including some of our best ever performances. The snails pace cautious build up was just a feature in the last qual campaign.

Staunton should be given the whole qualifying campaign at least ... anything less than that would be unfair and would only further unsettle an already unsettled squad of players

Talk of Stan being fired is ridiculous.
He's had one competitive match against the World Cup bronze medallists and we put up a decent show against them.
We need some stability and canning the manager after a few friendlies isn't the way to go.

I didn't say I was in favour of sacking him. I was painting a realistic pic of what could happen. And I take it a few of you favour keeping Staunton on if we don't win in Cyprus? And a "fickle" fan who has "fickled" his way around the world to watch Ireland play for the last 30 years or so!

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Originally Posted by DotTV

Talk of Stan being fired is ridiculous.
He's had one competitive match against the World Cup bronze medallists and we put up a decent show against them.
We need some stability and canning the manager after a few friendlies isn't the way to go.

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Had it not been for Shay Given we would have lost that match 4/5 nil.
Stan also got himself sent off in his first competitive match, made an arse out of himself in the interview after the game, played our better players out of position to accomadate the poorer members of the team.
The gamble to hire him as Ireland manager and give him a four year contract was made by the FAI. It's their fault pure and simple. I don't blame Staunton, he is completely under qualified and should never have been given the job in the first place.
The fact remains though, we have a manager that has never managed before with a "guru" thats seriously ill and ineffective. For us to gain anything out of this farce, time is of the essence. If he doesn't go we are in serious trouble. We have a manager that decided to "change things" in the Germany game by taking off our most skillfull and talented player while leaving Kilbane run aimlessly about the pitch marking thin air. Thats simply not good enough.
He will try until the bitter end, give it his all, 100%, there is no doubting that, he wants this to work. His is not qualified to manage however and is in the wrong job at the wrong time, no matter how hard it will not work because he has not got enough knowledge or education to be a good manager. People talk of players making the step up, look at who they are though, look at what they accomplished. Stan barely makes the grade as a good club captain. Its ridiculous and the entire squad knows it.
We need someone who knows what he is doing, not merely learning the job as he goes along. The fact that people are calling for him to go after his first competitive match actually speaks volumes for the situation we are in.

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Originally Posted by thelimerick

Had it not been for Shay Given we would have lost that match 4/5 nil.Stan also got himself sent off in his first competitive match, made an arse out of himself in the interview after the game, played our better players out of position to accomadate the poorer members of the team.
The gamble to hire him as Ireland manager and give him a four year contract was made by the FAI. It's their fault pure and simple. I don't blame Staunton, he is completely under qualified and should never have been given the job in the first place.
The fact remains though, we have a manager that has never managed before with a "guru" thats seriously ill and ineffective. For us to gain anything out of this farce, time is of the essence. If he doesn't go we are in serious trouble. We have a manager that decided to "change things" in the Germany game by taking off our most skillfull and talented player while leaving Kilbane run aimlessly about the pitch marking thin air. Thats simply not good enough.
He will try until the bitter end, give it his all, 100%, there is no doubting that, he wants this to work. His is not qualified to manage however and is in the wrong job at the wrong time, no matter how hard it will not work because he has not got enough knowledge or education to be a good manager. People talk of players making the step up, look at who they are though, look at what they accomplished. Stan barely makes the grade as a good club captain. Its ridiculous and the entire squad knows it.
We need someone who knows what he is doing, not merely learning the job as he goes along. The fact that people are calling for him to go after his first competitive match actually speaks volumes for the situation we are in.

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Given made an excellent save from Klose's header and again from Klose at short range in the second half.
He made a good save from Podolski but it was hit close to him.The goal they got was a stroke of luck so I wouldn't think the Germans could have won by 4 or 5.
They definetly weren't 4 or 5 goals better than us on Saturday.
The fact that people are calling for him to go speaks volumes about the types of retards that follow the team and listen to hacks like Dunphy.

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Originally Posted by thelimerick

Had it not been for Shay Given we would have lost that match 4/5 nil..

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yes, let's head to Cyprus with only ten men on the pitch.
i was going to read the rest of your argument, but anyone who continues to use the 'but for our keeper....' line isn't worth listening to.
you have a keeper, world class or not, and his job is to stop goals. end of. do you want stan to do without a world class keeper??

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Originally Posted by Merc67

yes, let's head to Cyprus with only ten men on the pitch.
i was going to read the rest of your argument, but anyone who continues to use the 'but for our keeper....' line isn't worth listening to.
you have a keeper, world class or not, and his job is to stop goals. end of. do you want stan to do without a world class keeper??

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Anyone who claims that 'Stan' had anything to do with Given's superb performance isn't worth listening to. We must assume that Given would have played like that regardless of who the manager was, but the sheer number of shots (not goals as you stated) he had to save was worrying and that was down to Staunton picking wrong tactics. He is a joke of a manager, tactically clueless, and his post-match interviews are laughable.
To the chap that said we wouldn't have lost 4 or 5 without Given in nets, dream on. Given made 3 top class saves that Paddy Kenny simply would not have come close to, and you seem to forgetting about the penalty claim. Also, Ballack had a completely free header and everytime the Germans had the ball they looked dangerous, even when they sat back in the last 15 minutes. We couldn't do anything on the ball - again, mostly down to poor tactics. Why should Staunton be given more chances if we lose in Cyprus? The three friendlies he was in charge for were geared towards finding the right team that would beat Germany. He has certainly failed there, shown by the fact that he called up St. Ledger for a European Qualifying match when he isn't even capped. It's obvious that he is not a world class manager, which is what we need, so what's the point in letting the man continue if it's inevitable he won't qualify. Get rid of this stupid inferiority complex that we are in a 'transition' period, absolute nonsense. We have a team full of Premiership players, a goalkeeper the likes of which this country won't see again for a very long time and our all-time international top scorer. If we aren't going to qualify here, then we have no chance for WC 2010. We should be going into these matches thinking we will win, because anything less is mediocre, however with Staunton there, qualification looks distant.

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Originally Posted by JayC90

To the chap that said we wouldn't have lost 4 or 5 without Given in nets, dream on. Given made 3 top class saves that Paddy Kenny simply would not have come close to

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What 3 top class saves were these? The save from Klose was a top class save. What else?

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Originally Posted by thelimerick

If he doesn't go we are in serious trouble.

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Do you think that getting rid of him will really help? What effect will it have on the players? It is proven statistically that teams who chop and change their managers regularly are always unsuccessful. I wasn't in favour of his appointment but I think that keeping him as manager would definitely be the lesser of two evils. And besides - no half decent manager would want to work for an association that sacked his predecessor after only one competitive match!

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Originally Posted by thelimerick

We have a manager that decided to "change things" in the Germany game by taking off our most skillfull and talented player

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And this player did what exactly? How many shots did he have? How many times did he take on the German defence? He is our most talented player yes but he has been anonamous for ages. Duff needs a good kick up the arse - he has been coasting since his performances in 2002. Taking him off might wake him up and make him realise he's a senior member of the squad now and he needs to start delivering the sort of performances his talent merits.

I gave qaulified support to Staunton's appointment (along with SBR) when many were outraged. After 4 games I have reasons to be concerned. It's hard to ignore the Chile & Holland games, but in the spirit of fairness, I'll do my best to, mmerely observing that I found some of the tactical moves ''odd''.

In Germany, the only game that actually has counted for anything so far, I thought the players gave a game performance. Our defence in particular was very solid. Others put in game performances too but the critical area of the pitch - central midfield - was a miserable failure.

Steven Reid, who I admit was dire against Holland, was played on the wing where he has never once played well for Ireland.
Kilbane, whose spersistent selection in central mid by Kerr was one of Kerr's biggest mistakes IMHO, was played yet again where he doresn't have the aptitude to play.
Andy Reid, who may have been injured, wasn't even in the squad. A bit of communication in this regard would at least have been a help.

The selection gave rise to a suspicion that maybe Staunton is doing a Sven - picking his tried & trusted ''senior players'' at all costs, at the expense of only a moderately braver (and more orthodox in terms of palying players where they actually like to play) approach.

The Emmet Malone article pointing out the Doc vs Paddy McCarthy ''head to head'' assessment is a cause for concern.

I personally have grave doubts that Staunton & his team actually know all about the top 30 players in contention for a place and how the likes of mcPhail are performing. Objection your honour, pure speculation. Upheld, I accept.

I've never been one to harp on about the manager. I gave Mick my full support, even during the losing streak in 96 & 97. I gave Kerr my support until the dreadful performances in our last 2 games last time out simply proved that rightly or wrongly, the players were simply not responding to bhis methods.

So I'm not calling for Stan's head by any means. SBR is as competent a man as we''ve ever had on or near our bench, but do we even know if he'll be involved in future? This guy has far more important matters on his plate.

This doesn't make me fickle, I'm just stating my concerns over the way things have started. Some of the simple basics don't appear to have been adhered to so far and this worries me.

Nicely written Stutts.
Whilst I supported Kerr up to his last game, in review it's no small coincidence that we were poor without Roy for the most part and with him for the most part we were decent enough.
I thought a a team of Stan and Bobby one of the most respected coaches in Europe, would do.
Without Roy we are still rudderless in midfield and Robson's presence has been missed.
There is nobody in the entire squad proven yet to come within a distance of offering what Roy gave to the team from midfield.

The evidence from the German game is that we are looking much better than the last 2 games of the WCQ, with room in the team to improve.
I'd predict a comfortable enough 2-0 win in Cyprus.
Losing in Cyprus would be a total mess for Irish football.

2-0? When Slovakia, who many would consider to be our closest rivals to cause an upset in the group, can beat Cyprus 6-1, we should be aiming for a lot higher than 2-0. I do hope that if the team destroys Cyprus by about 4-0 or 5-0, the scoring drought will end.
And the 3 top saves Given made that I was referring to, were the two from Klose (one being a header, the other a shot which Given saved with his legs) and the Podolski shot. He was also very close to preventing the goal.

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Originally Posted by JayC90

2-0? When Slovakia, who many would consider to be our closest rivals to cause an upset in the group, can beat Cyprus 6-1, we should be aiming for a lot higher than 2-0. I do hope that if the team destroys Cyprus by about 4-0 or 5-0, the scoring drought will end.
And the 3 top saves Given made that I was referring to, were the two from Klose (one being a header, the other a shot which Given saved with his legs) and the Podolski shot. He was also very close to preventing the goal.

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The Podolski shot was right at him. He had no choice but to push it over the bar because of the power but it'd be an absolute howler if a keeper let that one in. Given made 2 good saves in the entire match. Robbie Keane and Dunne should both have scored too.

As for Cyprus - They haven't been beaten at home by more than 2 since we played them 5 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

A bit of communication in this regard would at least have been a help.

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Hopefully this'll help.

From FAI website:

The FAI has confirmed today that they have appointed Gerry McDermott as Communications Manager.
Mr McDermott joins the Association from the Irish Independent where he was soccer correspondent. Prior to joining Independent Newspapers in 1998, he was Deputy Sports Editor at The Star and during his 25 year career in journalism he also worked for the Donegal Democrat, LMFM Radio, Evening Press and RTE.

He is a graduate of the School of Business Studies at Dundalk Institute of Technology and holds a Diploma in Public Relations from the Public Relations Institute of Ireland. He served as a board member of the PRII for four years from 1998.
Mr. McDermott's responsibilities will include Public Relations, Internal Communications and the development of the Association's website, www.fai.ie. He will report to the FAI's Director of Strategic, Stadium and Media Affairs, Declan Conroy, and takes up his new post on Monday, September 18.

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Originally Posted by DotTV

Given made an excellent save from Klose's header and again from Klose at short range in the second half.
He made a good save from Podolski but it was hit close to him.The goal they got was a stroke of luck so I wouldn't think the Germans could have won by 4 or 5.
They definetly weren't 4 or 5 goals better than us on Saturday.
The fact that people are calling for him to go speaks volumes about the types of retards that follow the team and listen to hacks like Dunphy.

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I TAKE OFFENCE THAT YOU ARE CALLING ME A RETARD...MODS???? I GOT BANNED FOR THIS KIND OF INSULT

Stop shouting!!!!!!!!!!

For the love of God, stop!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Den Perry

I TAKE OFFENCE THAT YOU ARE CALLING ME A RETARD...MODS???? I GOT BANNED FOR THIS KIND OF INSULT

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1) And if you continue to behave like this, you'll be banned again. We have a post reporting feature, use it.

2) You'll also be banned if you don't turn off your CAPS LOCK.

adam /deletes other shouty posts

Anybody who saw merit in the appointment of Steve Staunton should not be allowed babysit goldfish.

Regardless of results, what a ridiculous appointment after the FAI saying we needed a proven quality international manager.

Adding a septegenarian with a history of medical problems and of questionable mental faculty despite his wealth of experience doesn'e exactly inspite confidence. Stan's interviews are also an embarassment, the man is always on the defensive and no way as good at defending here as he was on the pitch because he diddn't need to bluff on the pitch.

Delaney should go before anyone...MUPPET.

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Originally Posted by Scram

Regardless of results, what a ridiculous appointment after the FAI saying we needed a proven quality international manager. ...MUPPET.

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I agree - a strange appointment but the appointment has been made and if the results are good, all will be forgotten. Such is the way of football. It's a results driven game and fans' memories become very short

The use of the word Muppet is interesting - I am starting to detect that a lot of the anti-Stan brigade were on the other (dark) side in Saipan. Is this a correct assumption I wonder.

no we are just anti gettin played off the pitch by holland at home and being spanked four nil...

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

I agree - a strange appointment but the appointment has been made and if the results are good, all will be forgotten. Such is the way of football. It's a results driven game and fans' memories become very short

The use of the word Muppet is interesting - I am starting to detect that a lot of the anti-Stan brigade were on the other (dark) side in Saipan. Is this a correct assumption I wonder.

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Jesus Owls Fan you are more pre-occupied about Saipan than I thought. I am sure there are many who did not like Stan who are now having a go at him but to be honest you dont need to hold a grudge against Stan to criticise the appointment in the first place and to be critical of some of the things he has done so far.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

John Giles resigned after the first qualifying game for WC 82. It was against Cyprus away and we won 3-2. Giles felt he had taken the team as far as he could. And honorably resigned in MO. OK obviously not his first competitive game in charge. But here we are again going to Cyprus and it all feels eerily similar. The result will be crucial. Anyone thinking ahead to the Czech game please stop now. As this Cyprus game is no forgone conclusion. And I for one do not believe Stan will resign even if we don't win. What will the FAI do then? Fire Stan and pay off a 4 year contract? Don't think so. Are they even thinking about this possibility? I doubt it. They should be.

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Anything less than third is unnacceptable. If it becomes clear that we won't get third spot only then should he go.

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Originally Posted by Emmet

Staunton should be given the whole qualifying campaign at least ... anything less than that would be unfair and would only further unsettle an already unsettled squad of players

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And what if we lose our next 3 games?

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Jesus Owls Fan you are more pre-occupied about Saipan than I thought. I am sure there are many who did not like Stan who are now having a go at him but to be honest you dont need to hold a grudge against Stan to criticise the appointment in the first place and to be critical of some of the things he has done so far.

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It's the use of the word "muppet" which was the pejorative term that Keane used to describe those who supported Mick that leads me to believe that some people (not all) have an historical issue with Stan.

I am just amazed by this anti-Stan thing so early. I didn't agree with his appointment but he's in the seat now and he has had ONE competitive game where the team did reasonably well away to Germany. I will judge him on the campaign ahead and if he turns out to be a disaster, then I will join the ranks of those calling for his head, but not until he has been given a chance. That is common sense to me but I have seen all these knee jerk reactions before. I remember reading a piece by Con Houlihan in the Evening Press after Charlton's first home game 0-1 defeat by Wales absolutely slating the appointment of Big Jack. Stan is the manager - let's see how it goes.

Owls fan you speak an awful lot of sense.
I cannot believe the amount of anti-Stan feeling the last few weeks and why? because he is an easy target.
Now dont get me wrong he has done one or two bizarre things, notably in who he has called up to the squad. But he is a novice manager, anyone who expected him to do everything right from day one is fooling himself.

Friendlies=meaningless, ok the performances in the last two werent great. The german performance was decent, imo they are playing the best football or any nation at present and we held our own there. This is with a central midfield of OShea and Kilbane!!

Im just asking people to hold fire, our next 4 games are crucial. IMO we can and must get 12 points from them. If we do, I know everyone will be Stans biggest fan, if we dont well then is the time to sit back and take stock. Not now.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

It's the use of the word "muppet" which was the pejorative term that Keane used to describe those who supported Mick that leads me to believe that some people (not all) have an historical issue with Stan.

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It is surely stretching things to suggest that Keane developed the use of the word Muppet in this kind of context.

Not everything to do with Irish football nowadays goes back to Saipan. In this case, Delaney let Kerr go on the basis of getting a top class international manager. Instead we got a Walsall reserve team coach. People not being happy with that, and the results since has nothing to do with Saipan.

Do people in the "leave poor stan alone" camp actually see any cause for optimism in anything they have seen so far? And if so can they share it with the rest of us.

bill , i see some cause , i will not look at the three friendlies but rather our only competitive game so far . a couple of months before the germans hockeyed the protuguese in the same stadium , we did well to get away with 1-0 and i doubt the czechs , slovaks or welsh will be as lucky. steven reid can only play better , kevin doyle was excellent and the team played in a style that i liked. it was obvious that stan came to try and win the game , even if we lost , if we win the next two games then i will be a full convert

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Originally Posted by elroy

The german performance was decent, imo they are playing the best football or any nation at present and we held our own there. This is with a central midfield of OShea and Kilbane!!

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I think it does need to be pointed out again that without Shay Given, we could easily have lost by 3. Paddy Kenny's a great keeper but I have strong doubts he would have been able to stop all the shots Shay did. Staunton can't get the credit for that. I'm even more worried about the upcoming games than I was after the last one now that it's seems we've lost Given.

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Originally Posted by czarner

I think it does need to be pointed out again that without Shay Given, we could easily have lost by 3. Paddy Kenny's a great keeper but I have strong doubts he would have been able to stop all the shots Shay did. Staunton can't get the credit for that. I'm even more worried about the upcoming games than I was after the last one now that it's seems we've lost Given.

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I wouldn't have any doubts about Kenny's shot stopping. The Klose's header was sensational but other than that it would have been a 'relatively' comfortable day for Kenny. The only thing I'd worry about is if he's nervous and starts flapping at crosses.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I wouldn't have any doubts about Kenny's shot stopping. The Klose's header was sensational but other than that it would have been a comfortable day for Kenny. The only thing I'd worry about is if he's nervous and starts flapping at crosses.

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Maybe you're right, I can't remember the details (saw it late at night here in china), but I thought I saw 2 amazing saves.

I suppose using a warped kind of logic you could say that what's been wrong so far has be just so wrong that it can't stay wrong. Kilbane as a CM, JO'S as a CM, Steven Reid as a RM and so on.

I said after the German game that there's not much wrong with the team that a good CM partnership wouldn't put right and I'll stick by that. Playing central midfielders in central midfield will be a start.

I'm just about prepared to write-off Chile & Holland for various reasons. I'm being highly selective I know. If Sweden & Germany were the only two games we're using to benchmark Staunton then I don't think we'd be so critical.

That said, this is the first time in nearly 30 years of following Ireland that I've had such grave concerns about the manager & where we're going but I just don't see any choice but to see what happens. I think we're condemned to have highly speculative managerial appointments until we can afford better. The only way I can see this happening is if the likes of Dromaville actually pay the salary of a top manager with the FAI paying a bonus dependent on final group placings.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I wouldn't have any doubts about Kenny's shot stopping. The Klose's header was sensational but other than that it would have been a 'relatively' comfortable day for Kenny. The only thing I'd worry about is if he's nervous and starts flapping at crosses.

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First up, I've admired Kenny's handling to date.

Given's save from Klose was class.

The save from Podolski would have been bad goalkeeping if it had gone in. It looked spectacular but Given had time to react & it wasn't that far wide of him, at a good height too.

There was a one-on-one late in the second half that was impressive, but by no means beyond Kenny.

Maybe the next two games will be the making of Kenny.

If we need a heroic goalkeeping performance in Cyprus then God help us all anyway.

Agree with Stuttgart,
I think the only outstanding save Shay made against the germans was from Klose, I was right behind Podolskis shot and he did make the best of it.
Having said that he will be a massive loss, but he would be to any team.

Have always rated Kenny, but against the Dutch, he and the defence looked clueless. However, with a bit of luck, if they manage to put in a good performance against Cyprus and hopefully a clean sheet, they're and PK's confidence will be high going into the Czech game.

But as someone mentioned earlier, if we cant beat Cyprus (even w/o Given) we are kidding ourselves even thinking we may qualify from this group.

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Do people in the "leave poor stan alone" camp actually see any cause for optimism in anything they have seen so far? And if so can they share it with the rest of us.

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One competitive game which was a decent performance away to Germany. There is some cause for optimism.