Rivaldo O'Shea Surely Time to Go

Another Ireland game another dismal performance from Rivaldo O'Shea again. By far Ireland's worst player. The only constructive thing I can remember him doing was his backheel in the box where he momentarily forgot where he was and thought he was Brazilian.

He's an absolutely shocking player and needs to go. How many more chances is he going to get just because he's a bit part player at United? It's like playing with ten men with that donkey on the pitch.

Also Staunton having Ireland playing total football like the Dutch team in the 70's seemed to me to be a strange tactical move. A number of our player's seemed to be drifting into a number of different positions at various times during the course of the game.

O'Shea .Kilbane, Carr
I would rather have us being crap for a 1 or 2 then building a team around these crap players

blood the young lads in and roll with them , they r the future not these clowns

O'SHEA OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I can't say I'm a fan of O'Shea as a player but I feel he is really hard done by by the Irish fans. atm I'm actually putting together individual stats of each player from the match on Saturday. Im an anorak and nothing better to do with my spare time but it'll probably take me a week as I'm doing it in bits and pieces. :) After about 20 minutes only Finnan has played more passes than O'Shea. O'Shea has 8 successful short passes and 1 unsuccesfull. He's put in 2 tackles (same as Reid and Finnan) and also 2 clearances or interceptions.

I don't really remember too much of O'Shea from the match as I was in the pub all day but he must have went completely downhill after the first 20-25 minutes.

Was at the match and I thought the one thing we lacked was a link man between Midfield and attack.

O'Shea had a game game. He stopped Ballack from getting on the ball.He is never going to drive forward and help out the 2 front men from midfield. Is this what people expect from him? If anyone Kilbane should have been the man to provide this.

It seems O'Shea has become an easy target. Likewise Carr, who also had a good game on Sat imo.

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Originally Posted by nedder

Was at the match and I thought the one thing we lacked was a link man between Midfield and attack.

O'Shea had a game game. He stopped Ballack from getting on the ball.He is never going to drive forward and help out the 2 front men from midfield. Is this what people expect from him? If anyone Kilbane should have been the man to provide this.

It seems O'Shea has become an easy target. Likewise Carr, who also had a good game on Sat imo.

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If he is playing in midfield I'd expect him to contribute in some positive form to the game. He was a liability on Saturday. I don't remember him actually making any decent tackles on Ballack so I can't see how Ballack not controlling the game as he tends to do for Germany can be put down to O'Shea.

Carr did play ok as did Andy O'Brien ignoring his mistake that led to the goal.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I can't say I'm a fan of O'Shea as a player but I feel he is really hard done by by the Irish fans.

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Originally Posted by nedder

It seems O'Shea has become an easy target.

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I'm not going to say I think he's a great player but I've always felt his critics on here have gone ott at times.

He has suffered for being "versatile" and while doing ok IMO in various positions, he has never excelled. Maybe it's because he's a Man Utd player people expect him to be a world beater but he's never going to dominate a match as that's not his game.

I felt he did ok although his distribution was at times poor on Saturday, he was certainly no worse than anyone else and he definately dampened Ballacks effect on the match as he wasn't as instrumental as he normally is for them.

O'Shea should be moved to leftback and Carsley should be brought in to do a holding role in the midfield.Finnan should go to right back and Carr should be on the bench.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

. He was a liability on Saturday. I don't remember him actually making any decent tackles on Ballack so I can't see how Ballack not controlling the game as he tends to do for Germany can be put down to O'Shea.

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I do recall him making a few tackles but just marking someone helps influence the other players input. His team mates are less likely to play him a pass if he's got a marker close by especially if there is an easier option alongside thus making him less effective.

He is in the team to protect the back 4 and to track any runners from central midfield, he did neither effectively. I recall him tracking one run and winning the ball cleanly and I wondered why he didn't do it more often.
The German chances virtually all came from deep runs and Ballack was either creating them or on the end of them, O'Shea was in the team to stop them and he failed.

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Originally Posted by endabob1

He is in the team to protect the back 4 and to track any runners from central midfield, he did neither effectively. I recall him tracking one run and winning the ball cleanly and I wondered why he didn't do it more often.
The German chances virtually all came from deep runs and Ballack was either creating them or on the end of them, O'Shea was in the team to stop them and he failed.

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Kilbane was in the team to stop them, O'Shea played the holding role. It was O'Shea's job to keep possession. Obviously beeing a central midfielder it's also your job to track back without the ball but it's not his sole job as you seem to be making out. I wouldn't have O'Shea in the team, never mind midfield, but he did do his job on Saturday from what I can remember.

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Originally Posted by nedder

Was at the match and I thought the one thing we lacked was a link man between Midfield and attack.

O'Shea had a game game. He stopped Ballack from getting on the ball.He is never going to drive forward and help out the 2 front men from midfield. Is this what people expect from him? If anyone Kilbane should have been the man to provide this.

It seems O'Shea has become an easy target. Likewise Carr, who also had a good game on Sat imo.

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Agree with every word.

Here's what Bobby Robson said after Chile game which, with subsequent comments, led me to believe that S. Reid was a certainty for central mid.

“John O’Shea is a better player than what he gives us sometimes,” said Robson. “We like him and we think he’s going to be a very influential player for us — a strong boy, good in the air — as long as he keeps his passes simple and doesn’t try to be like a genius.

“But he also needed to knock out the six (Acuna) a bit more.”

Robson also revealed he sees Steven Reid’s Irish future as being alongside the Manchester United man in the middle of the park. He had high praise for the Blackburn midfielder.

“He played in three positions the other night but I would say his best position is in the midfield with O’Shea. He’s got such a shot on him and he’ll get that shot in on goal more if plays orthodox midfield rather than wide on the right or at full back. He’s such a good player coming onto the edge of the box, picking up ball off the strikers and hitting 25-yarders. Remember Bobby Charlton? Steven has that explosive shot.”

That's what I think of Reid too.

I thought O'Shea did what Robson asked above. He put himself about and played a lot of simple passes, getting others involved and generally doing a good job negating Germany. Ideally he'd have had a central midfield partner who could take the ball from him and "add value" but Kilbane can't do that. As the game got stretched O'Shea got more isolated and his performance dropped.

As I've said on other threads today, JOS would not be in my first XI but it's Kilbane's lack of finesse as a midfielder that's a bigger problem.

I too would like to see a re-run of the game as I'm struggling to reconcile the massive divergence of opinion. I've read O'Brien is dodgy when I thought he was very good, O'Shea was a disgrace, the players didn't try...

On reading Bobby Robson's comments from the Chile game, it begs the question why is Staunton not listening to them. If BR thinks S.Reid's best position is centre-mid then why was he out on the right? He could have a point about O'Shea, but I'm yet to be convinced of his abilities. He was a decent under age player but that, I now believe, was because he was a couple of inches taller than most opponents.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I thought O'Shea did what Robson asked above. He put himself about and played a lot of simple passes, getting others involved and generally doing a good job negating Germany.

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Can't imaging what game you were watching! Negating Germany???? Their midfield ran all over us. Frings was on his own for most of the game.

BTW, if you do ever watch a replay, watch the three simple passes O'Shea gave in the last 8/10 minutes. Not one of them more than 10 yards, all three of them to Germans!

I know I keep on about this guy but he has now played 32 games for Ireland and has failed to impress in any of them.

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

I know I keep on about this guy but he has now played 32 games for Ireland and has failed to impress in any of them.

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I fully agree. No matter what anyone says about our limited resources in midfield (and I agree) I don't believe for a second we can't find a better replacement than a non-entity. Try someone new. A Reid, Ireland, J O'Brien (when he's fit), Garvan when he recovers from his illness and if he continues to develop and impress for Ipswich this season. Even Mc Phail if he continues his form for Cardiff. Anything. Just please Staunton try something new. O'Shea isn't working in the slightest.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Kilbane was in the team to stop them, O'Shea played the holding role. It was O'Shea's job to keep possession. Obviously beeing a central midfielder it's also your job to track back without the ball but it's not his sole job as you seem to be making out. I wouldn't have O'Shea in the team, never mind midfield, but he did do his job on Saturday from what I can remember.

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When the other team have a player like Ballack whose real strenght is making late runs into the box then you need to be on your game to track him every single time, O'Shea wasn't and didn't. I'm not excusing Kilbane here either, they were as bad as each other but I expect more from O'Shea in that role because he seems to do it ok for Utd when he plays.
Incidentally in theory I think O'Shea and Steven Reid would be a good midfield pair, unfortunately in practice O'Shea has never delivered for Ireland in that position and Reid hasn't had enough chances in the middle.

The strange thing is that he plays well for Man Utd but can't reproduce this form for Ireland. Maybe the instructions that he receives from Fergie are more clearer than from Staunton?

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

BTW, if you do ever watch a replay, watch the three simple passes O'Shea gave in the last 8/10 minutes. Not one of them more than 10 yards, all three of them to Germans!

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I thought he had a good first half and was worse in the second. My recollection is of O'Shea receiving at least one hospital pass that Zidane would have had difficulty controlling.

But again, I think if he'd had a proper midfield partner ahead of him he'd have been better.

I'm not an O'Shea apologist - I wouldn't have him in my starting XI (well, I'm indifferent to harte / O'Shea & Kilbane at left-back I suppose).

How many caps does S. Reid have? A guess is about 20~25 now. Another guess is that less than 5 of these have been central midfield, his preferred position.

My 11 month old has a new toy, a shape sorter. You put triangle shapes into the triangle hole etc. It's a good learning aid. I might send one to Stan for Christmas.


He may not be the answer, but intuitively a strong athlete like Reid and a ball player like Andy Reid, Miller, McPhail (and so on) would be a far better central midfield.

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Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

The strange thing is that he plays well for Man Utd but can't reproduce this form for Ireland. Maybe the instructions that he receives from Fergie are more clearer than from Staunton?

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He's played consistently bad for Ireland during the spells of 3 managers now so surely Staunton can't be blamed for his poor showings recently. I think he's one of United's poorest players anyway and sometimes wonder how he gets into their team.

Maybe he's like Pele, Best and Maradona combined on the training pitch.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Another Ireland game another dismal performance from Rivaldo O'Shea again. By far Ireland's worst player. The only constructive thing I can remember him doing was his backheel in the box where he momentarily forgot where he was and thought he was Brazilian.

He's an absolutely shocking player and needs to go. How many more chances is he going to get just because he's a bit part player at United? It's like playing with ten men with that donkey on the pitch.

Also Staunton having Ireland playing total football like the Dutch team in the 70's seemed to me to be a strange tactical move. A number of our player's seemed to be drifting into a number of different positions at various times during the course of the game.

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I really can't believe the complete and utter ignorance of this post...It seems fairly obvious to me that you were either watching a different match or have absolutely no clue about football... O'Shea was one of the very few Irish players on the pitch that actually did a decent job of what they were asked to do. As the "holding midfielder" he is expected to disrupt the opposition attack when defending and look for the ball from the defence and spread the play when going forward, both of which he did quite well. His passing was simple and most of the time he found a teammate and spread the play nicely....what more do you want him to do?? Run the pitch, nutmeg Ballack and then score a 30 yard screamer???? :rolleyes:
As was mentioned before, O'Shea is an easy target for the average Irish supporter whose blinkered view of some players means they will criticise them no matter what (the treatment of Kilbane is the past is also a similar example of this)...OK so he didn't play as well in the second half but who, bar Dunne and Given, actually did?? I thought Steven Reid was very poor but he hasn't been targeted with any of the vitriol that has been aimed at O'Shea....why is this?????? It all makes me worry about the attitude of Irish supporters these days...

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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba

I thought Steven Reid was very poor but he hasn't been targeted with any of the vitriol that has been aimed at O'Shea

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I think it's been accepted that Reid's poor performance was down to being played out of position

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I think it's been accepted that Reid's poor performance was down to being played out of position

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I understand this but in general he didn't even do the simple things well, his passing was very poor all night and his first touch was consistently shocking but O'Shea is targeted again even though he played relatively well...:confused:

When we needed O'Shea the most he went missing.
After spells of German pressure we needed someone in midfield to put their foot on the ball, string a few passes together and slow the game down a bit.
O'Shea didn't show for the ball enough to do this.
Maybe he's not confident enough playing centre mid for Ireland.
I think his future with Ireland lies at left back.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba

I really can't believe the complete and utter ignorance of this post...It seems fairly obvious to me that you were either watching a different match or have absolutely no clue about football... O'Shea was one of the very few Irish players on the pitch that actually did a decent job of what they were asked to do. As the "holding midfielder" he is expected to disrupt the opposition attack when defending and look for the ball from the defence and spread the play when going forward, both of which he did quite well. His passing was simple and most of the time he found a teammate and spread the play nicely....what more do you want him to do?? Run the pitch, nutmeg Ballack and then score a 30 yard screamer???? :rolleyes:
As was mentioned before, O'Shea is an easy target for the average Irish supporter whose blinkered view of some players means they will criticise them no matter what (the treatment of Kilbane is the past is also a similar example of this)...OK so he didn't play as well in the second half but who, bar Dunne and Given, actually did?? I thought Steven Reid was very poor but he hasn't been targeted with any of the vitriol that has been aimed at O'Shea....why is this?????? It all makes me worry about the attitude of Irish supporters these days...

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O'Shea is consistently sh*te for Ireland and was s**te the other night. That's why I have created this thread. Not based on one cr*p performance. You might have watched the game the other night (which I doubt based on some of your observations) but you obviously haven't watched any of the other Ireland games that O'Shea has played in over the last 4-5 years.

I expect him to at least contribute in some positive way to the game. That's what the vast majority of midfielders are expected to do bar maybe Makele that I can think of and please don't compare him to O'Shea. O'Shea is useless. And he didn't keep Ballack or the rest of the German midfield quiet if you had watched the game.

You obviously haven't a breeze man. It's borderline funny you think you're making sense and you think you can slate people because you obviously have some knowledge we don't.

Here's the facts. O'Shea is consistently sh**e, Reid isn't. Even Kilbane has had a few decent games - remember France away? Probably not, you sound like you don't follow too many games. Answer this question to add some credibility to your claim that I attack O'Shea for no reason - name one good performance in a competitive game from him for Ireland?

Now go back to watching Andy Murray playing tennis or whatever you normally follow.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

O'Shea is consistently sh*te for Ireland and was s**te the other night. That's why I have created this thread. Not based on one cr*p performance. You might have watched the game the other night (which I doubt based on some of your observations) but you obviously haven't watched any of the other Ireland games that O'Shea has played in over the last 4-5 years.

I expect him to at least contribute in some positive way to the game. That's what the vast majority of midfielders are expected to do bar maybe Makele that I can think of and please don't compare him to O'Shea. O'Shea is useless. And he didn't keep Ballack or the rest of the German midfield quiet if you had watched the game.

You obviously haven't a breeze man. It's borderline funny you think you're making sense and you think you can slate people because you obviously have some knowledge we don't.

Here's the facts. O'Shea is consistently sh**e, Reid isn't. Even Kilbane has had a few decent games - remember France away? Probably not, you sound like you don't follow too many games. Answer this question to add some credibility to your claim that I attack O'Shea for no reason - name one good performance in a competitive game from him for Ireland?

Now go back to watching Andy Murray playing tennis or whatever you normally follow.

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blah blah blah O'Shea is useless....blah blah blah O'Shea is sh*te...blah blah blah resort to personal insults....:rolleyes:
Jaysus this post barely even deserves a response but here we go:

I never said or even intimated that O'Shea has been anywhere near consistently good for Ireland. On the contrary I'd agree with most in saying that he has been mediocre at best in previous games for us. My point is that he was one of the better performers for us on Saturday, kept it simple, spread the play and, along with Kilbane, nullified the thread of Ballack who was anonymous for the most-part (But you probably didn't notice this from the comfort of your barstool)...My point is that its guys like you that will never even acknowledge that he's played well due to some kind of personal vendetta against the guy which is bloody pathetic. I'd hazard a guess that you'd probably be one of the boo-boys in Lansdowne that gave Kilbane a hard time not so long ago...

Also,funnily enough I was actually at the game in Paris and the one over the weekend....were you??
And is it the fact that I can actually string together a coherent (you may need to use a dictionary for that one) sentence that means I would like tennis or have I missed the point your making there??? Or is there actually a point??? probably not...

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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba

My point is that its guys like you that will never even acknowledge that he's played well due to some kind of personal vendetta against the guy which is bloody pathetic.

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He didn't play well though so you have no point. What's more if you read any of the other posts you'd see that most people agree he didn't play well. Just because he might have played better than Kilbane (debatable) doesn't mean he played well.

The personal insults started in your post which you seem to have quickly forgotton just like you did with all of JOS's previous performances in an Ireland shirt.

Have you an Ireland shirt with O'Shea printed on the back and are taking it out on me?

Can you give it a rest Dr Ogba. you go to a couple of away games a year. big deal. hardly makes you the worlds number one fan.so stop tryin to claim some moral superiority over anyone else. its usually the same people who cry if some eircom league fan comes on and questions their commitment.sad.

I agree there is some lazy slagging by some people of O Shea. This is not reserved for peope who do or dont travel to games. i was at the game on Sat and there was a guy giving O Shea loads of abuse throughout the whole game. At one point O Shea received a ball at neck height from Carr and was disposses and the guy berated O Shea. So there are instances where clueless fools jump on the bandwagon and slag O Shea. What I would say is that there would be no bandwagon if O Shea put in good performances for Ireland.

I though on Saturday he was better than Kilbane and Reid in the first half. He did keep it simple and did not lose possession too much. Something that Kilbane does again and again. I think Kilbanes all action style means some people think he offers more than O Shea. But if we wanna get results away from home there is no point in having Kilbane anywhere near our midfield. The future of O Shea is unsure too at midfield in my view. What needs to happen is that Stephen Reid is playing centrally and that Carsley is called back into the squad along with Andy Reid and play 2 out of these 3 centrally along with Duff and McGeady on the wings.

i dont recall such confusion about a performance when Roy played in the middle. its apparent to all when someones performance is that good. if there's debate,then its not that strong a showing. We should have high expectations of o'shea and he neverl comes through. Ronnie O'Brien is playing well in the states, and is better than kilbane. Anyone else ever seen him playing?

Yeah, better than Kilbane alright, he's definitely worth at least a tryout in a friendly!

"Ronnie O'Brien is playing well in the states, and is better than kilbane. Anyone else ever seen him playing?"

eh :rolleyes: and :D

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Can you give it a rest Dr Ogba. you go to a couple of away games a year. big deal. hardly makes you the worlds number one fan.so stop tryin to claim some moral superiority over anyone else. its usually the same people who cry if some eircom league fan comes on and questions their commitment.sad.

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Wasn't claiming anything of the sort mate, just answering his remarks about seeing both games...read the posts again

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Originally Posted by youngirish

He didn't play well though so you have no point. What's more if you read any of the other posts you'd see that most people agree he didn't play well. Just because he might have played better than Kilbane (debatable) doesn't mean he played well.

The personal insults started in your post which you seem to have quickly forgotton just like you did with all of JOS's previous performances in an Ireland shirt.

Have you an Ireland shirt with O'Shea printed on the back and are taking it out on me?

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Nope, not O'Shea's biggest fan actually, just feel that some people don't give credit where credit is due because of who he is. He was far better and more effective than Reid on the night (nothing against Reid but just using him as an example) yet gets slated again...

I'm thinkin we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one...

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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba

(But you probably didn't notice this from the comfort of your barstoolAlso,funnily enough I was actually at the game in Paris and the one over the weekend....were you??

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please see above.
mate.;)