Clinton - The great Pretender?

Listening to the analysis after the game, Liam Brady's comment about Clinton Morrison really struck a chord with me.
He said that Morrison always looks like he's chasing a ball, making an effort etc but he doesn't.
I've always thought that Morrison spent more time complaining to officials or other players due to his own inabilities.
He throws all the right shapes on the pitch, the anquished look, the forlorn look and gives the more 'sinned against that sinning' look.
Although Morrison scored a couple of goals for us in the last campaign my abiding memories of him are being caught offside, falling on his ass, giving away countless frees for backing into his marker and generally whinging.
Clinton talks a great fight.................but is he just 'the great pretender'???

Doyle is the classier player and is the future for us. Morrisson is now a squad member in my view and is back up to Doyle.

I'd agree with everything in the original post.

Morrison got some great goals against the Swiss but in essence he's all huff and puff.
He can't do the very basics of a good centre forward, ie hold the ball up and lay it off for oncoming midfielders or knock it out to the wingers.Invariably he ends up on his ass or he gives away a free.
Brady's point was good.Morrision always seems to be chasing after the ball when really he should be anticpating passes and getting on the ball first time.
Before it was a choice between him and Doc to partner Keane but now with the emergence of Doyle, Elliot and Murphy it should be time to say adios to Clints.

i like him and like his passion , i sincerely hope doyle overtakes him as clinton is a limited player and hopefully doyle isnt , but i certainly think clinto's career with us is far from over , he will always be in the frame and has an eye for goal. there will be no adios to clinto as far as i am concerned , he will always be an option on our bench

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hold the ball up and lay it off for oncoming midfielders or knock it out to the wingers

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Well Morrison did it superbly well against France in Paris.
Any one of 10 players performances could have been dissected and slaughtered. He was selected in games gone by because he was the best on offer after Robbie. Now he isn't 2nd best, that doesn't mean he's totally shíte. He's adequate for the squad and adequate as a sub should injuries happen.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Well Morrison did it superbly well against France in Paris.
Any one of 10 players performances could have been dissected and slaughtered. He was selected in games gone by because he was the best on offer after Robbie. Now he isn't 2nd best, that doesn't mean he's totally shíte. He's adequate for the squad and adequate as a sub should injuries happen.

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I remember clearly the momentum of that game shifting as soon as Morrisson went off. It was probably his best performance in an Irish jersey...he held up the ball well, won headers and generally made a nuisance of himself.
Having said that, Doyle can do all the things Morrisson is supposed to do, only better. And he doesn't fall on his arse as much :)

Morrisons record is 9 goals in 35 internationals which isn't too bad however i do not know what his competitive record is. Brady was correct about Morrison & could see seen perfectly in the last 2 home internationals under Kerr - he spends so much time bitching to the ref about non-fouls that he doesn't get the ones he actaully fouled - bit of the crying wolf about him.

While his past record may have been ok his last year or so he has been very poor & now barely entitled to a squad place.

He is a one trick pony - kick the ball into the corner & he will chase & hold up on a good day. On a bad day he will fall over claiming a foul.

Yeah I feel just cause Doyle should get the nod over Morrisson this is no reason to discard Morrisson totally, he still has a role as back up to Doyle in my view.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Well Morrison did it superbly well against France in Paris.
Any one of 10 players performances could have been dissected and slaughtered. He was selected in games gone by because he was the best on offer after Robbie. Now he isn't 2nd best, that doesn't mean he's totally shíte. He's adequate for the squad and adequate as a sub should injuries happen.

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Sure, he's done it in a few games but the majority of the time he's woeful and way out of his depth.
An average/good championship striker at best.Flopped in the Premiership and defintely not international quality.

its having the likes of that mercenary who decided he was Irish when England didnt pick him(as if!) that makes the "nstional" team a source of great anger for me.

That team does not represent me.

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Originally Posted by Pablo

its having the likes of that mercenary who decided he was Irish when England didnt pick him(as if!) that makes the "nstional" team a source of great anger for me.
That team does not represent me.

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Mercenary sh'te again. Why don't you go elsewhere with your resentful angst. I couldn't care less

Think that sums him up alright...

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Originally Posted by Pablo

its having the likes of that mercenary who decided he was Irish when England didnt pick him(as if!) that makes the "nstional" team a source of great anger for me.

That team does not represent me.

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In fairness, Morrison is probably the only 1 of the 20 odd players called up against Holland that would have chose another country over Ireland (even world champions Italy had 1 in Camoranesi). It's certainly a lot different than the Charlton days. I don't think we'll ever see so many foreigners in our team again due to the fact that international "wages" in comparison to club wages is pretty tiny these days and premiership players earn more than enough. So, if you stopped supporting the team under Charlton you can come back to us now! ;)

I don't like Morrison as a player. He's a poor mans Drogba and I can't stand Drogba's style of play.

Clinton is not our greatest player and we can probably start to dispense with him. However he was chosen at a time when we had v slim pickings with strikers. All we had for a while was Robbie, the Doc (obviously not a striker) and Connolly (a failure at international level).

I think this is how we should use the Granny rule. Irish born players (including people like Kilbane and Breen) should be Pot A. If we can get the right number of players of an acceptable class from this pot then great. If not, we should dip into Pot B. At present we should be using Pot B for a Centre back and a defensive midfielder but not for someone like McSheffrey who we dont need.

I think there is hope in these areas (e.g McShane, McCarthy in defense and Garvan, Miller and Douglas in midfield) but for a variety of reasons I dont think they are going to be of help in this campaign. So we should try to get some 2nd Generation players of the quality of Zat Knight ( I know he's not eligible) to fill in. Once the others come through we can dump them!

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

Clinton is not our greatest player and we can probably start to dispense with him. However he was chosen at a time when we had v slim pickings with strikers. All we had for a while was Robbie, the Doc (obviously not a striker) and Connolly (a failure at international level).

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We also had Niall Quinn then. Connolly's international goal scoring record is about 1 in 4 matches (considering he was a sub in quite a few of them, thats not that bad)...which is better than Doyle and Elliott (his record), and about equal with Morrison (Not the best point against Doyle and Elliott, because they have about 10 caps between them, but it is true). Doherty is a pretty good defender, and if we are streched, he can play forward if he has to, but its not his natural position. Morrison is a pretty good player, who has scored goals at all levels of football, no need to drop him, but he shouldnt start

I think the problem with Clinton is that he doesn't fully grasp the idea of football ie to put the ball in the back of the oppositions net as often as possible.
When he gets the ball his first thought is to hit the ground and look for a free instead of looking for a free player or the goal.
Doyle is a far better alternative. Hope the squad is never as depleted as it was on wednesday night and that we never see Clinton starting again.

Morisson is a poor footballer with no trace of a footballing brain.He loses the ball far to easily and vanishes up his hole when things get tough.He didn't want to play for Ireland and should never have been picked

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I don't like Morrison as a player. He's a poor mans Drogba and I can't stand Drogba's style of play.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by DotTV

Sure, he's done it in a few games but the majority of the time he's woeful and way out of his depth.
An average/good championship striker at best.Flopped in the Premiership and defintely not international quality.

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I don't dissagree. He was 2nd best after Robbie, since Quinn retired. Because he was second best doesn't mean I think the world of him or that he is quality. Far from it.

He's a moaner, looking for frees but no more or less than Robbie does.

What gets me is now he's 4th maybe 5th so feckin what, whats the urge to dump all this antipathy on him. Most of ye didn't blink an eye when he was the only partner available for Robbie and selected. Happy enough that his limited talent was there rather than the Doc. and with the odd important goal.
Now there's a queue of young strikers, better prospects, and it's okay feck off you were always a brainless shíte.
As Giles says "football is a cruel game" :)

Don't be bring Connolly into this debate. He is useless & always will be. Wigan spent 3m on him but never played him in the Premiership as preferred midfielders in attack instead of him. BTW Connolly only scored against minnows & friendlies.

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Originally Posted by pete

Don't be bring Connolly into this debate. He is useless & always will be. Wigan spent 3m on him but never played him in the Premiership as preferred midfielders in attack instead of him. BTW Connolly only scored against minnows & friendlies.

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He was hurt most of last season, the last international goal he scored was against Turkey, a match we drew, and Turkey went to the semi finals of WC 2002

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Originally Posted by thew0rm2345

He was hurt most of last season, the last international goal he scored was against Turkey, a match we drew, and Turkey went to the semi finals of WC 2002

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A friendly. Can't remember his last goal before that. His international goals tally looks ok but hides the fact he scored against very small teams.

Morrison got a move to Birmingham which was helped by the exposure he got from playing international football. It was proved he wasn't up to the task as he started relatively few games. He is a championship player at best.
As Pete mentioned earlier he stalled on declaring for anyone in the hope that England might come calling(what a laugh!) and when that didn't happen he decided he was Irish and wanted to play for us.
There's plenty of talking in Morrison but not much else!

I might be wrong but i think David Connolly got a hat trick against liechtenstein or someone like that

When Clinton got a run in the Birmingham side, players like Heskey were calling him the most important player in the side because all the work Clinton was doing was helping him score, then Bruce would drop him again for no apparent reason. He's a proven goalscorer at Championship level, and I expect him to get about 15 goals this season. He's not 100% yet, and has admitted this in interviews, but is also willing to fight for his place at Palace.
I did question his loyalty to Ireland when he first declared, but some of the performances, particularly his workrate, that I've seen from him made me change my mind and I've great time for him now. We might have better options available now (Doyle, Elliott) but for me, it's a weaker squad without Clinton.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

When Clinton got a run in the Birmingham side, players like Heskey were calling him the most important player in the side because all the work Clinton was doing was helping him score, then Bruce would drop him again for no apparent reason. He's a proven goalscorer at Championship level, and I expect him to get about 15 goals this season. He's not 100% yet, and has admitted this in interviews, but is also willing to fight for his place at Palace.
I did question his loyalty to Ireland when he first declared, but some of the performances, particularly his workrate, that I've seen from him made me change my mind and I've great time for him now. We might have better options available now (Doyle, Elliott) but for me, it's a weaker squad without Clinton.

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Good man Tests.... Them's my sentimony's also!!

Morrison still has an important role to play, and until Doyle starts banging them in regularly in the Premiership, I'd pick him alongside Robbie to start in Germany.

Doyle, though advertised as good in the air on this website and others, has quite a small frame and lacks the physical part to the game that I think Clinton brings to the table.

Skillwise I don't doubt Doyle beats Morrison, but without an aerial option I think our attack will be fairly limited.

Keane and Doyle will simply not win balls fired into the box from the likes of Duff and McGeady on the wings.

Morrison is no Niall Quinn in the air, but he is a step up from Doyle and Keane.

Clinton has a role to play, and is still one of our best options.

Keep him around.

Lets just say there is not a big chance hell be dropped this campaign unless some sort of injury comes about

irishfan86 - I disagree. I don't think Morrison has proven to be any better than Doyle in the air. It's just Morrison's stlye of play that he's obviously going to be battling with the centre halfs for headers. Doyle plays more off the shoulder but I do think if there was crosses being whipped in he'd have no problem putting them in the back of the net.

Almost half his goals for Reading have been headers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJNeqiOPmDw

Even from kickouts against Holland I noticed how much Doyle was winning in the air compared to Morrison. I won't be overly disappointed to see Morrison on the teamsheet for the Germany game but I'd like to think Doyle has overtaken him.

I agree Doyle is better in the air than Morrisson.

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Originally Posted by thew0rm2345

He was hurt most of last season, the last international goal he scored was against Turkey, a match we drew, and Turkey went to the semi finals of WC 2002

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How easy we forget. Connolly was and still is absolutely diabolical at International level. He could score goals against the likes of Liechenstein but looked way out of his depth against anyone half decent in a competitive match. Against the Swiss at home for the last European Championship qualifiers he gave possibly the most inept display that I've ever seen from an Irish forward in a competitive match. In fact when has he ever played even half decent in a competitive match against reasonable opposition? Never.

There is no way he should be allowed back into the squad at the expense of Morrison who can on occasion provide something useful against the top teams. If we are going to replace Morrison with anyone in the squad I'd suggest giving Long a chance or Daryl Murphy.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

How easy we forget. Connolly was and still is absolutely diabolical at International level. He could score goals against the likes of Liechenstein but looked way out of his depth against anyone half decent in a competitive match.

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Last time I looked we were struggling to score against "The likes of Liechtenstein"... There's more than two or three teams in a group and someone who can "slum it" aginst the minnow is most definately an asset. Connolly is just an easy target, same as the Kilbanes and Hartes of this world. He's a good goalscorer against average teams. Big deal. :rolleyes:

What have the Doyles and Elliots achieved that he hasn't. At the moment they're the lads in posession of a place in the squad but for me, at this point, pound for pound, outside Robbie Keane there's not much difference in class between the rest of them.

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Last time I looked we were struggling to score against "The likes of Liechtenstein"... There's more than two or three teams in a group and someone who can "slum it" aginst the minnow is most definately an asset. Connolly is just an easy target, same as the Kilbanes and Hartes of this world. He's a good goalscorer against average teams. Big deal. :rolleyes:

What have the Doyles and Elliots achieved that he hasn't. At the moment they're the lads in posession of a place in the squad but for me, at this point, pound for pound, outside Robbie Keane there's not much difference in class between the rest of them.

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I dont suppose you watched the Faroes match, youngirish? Kilbane scored one off a deflection and Harte nailed a free kick. No nothing for anyone else. Actually, they almost scored on us, I have the video here of Shay making a good save. Liechtenstein are ranked about 45 higher than the Faroes by FIFA, and about even in ELO. We really couldve used 3 more against the Faroes, even if only for Goal differential. Connolly was/probably still is better than good at the Coca-Cola Championship level, you cant really say more than that for Morrison and Elliott, they both were OK in the Premiership, but they werent playing behind two of the best strikers playing right now in Heskey and Camara

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Originally Posted by thew0rm2345

but they werent playing behind two of the best strikers playing right now in Heskey and Camara

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Heskey and Camara are two of the best, or have I misunderstood you? :eek: I don't think Connolly's a bad player but he can't play with Keane. He needs a Quinn or even a Doherty to partner him if he's going to produce his best.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Heskey and Camara are two of the best, or have I misunderstood you? :eek: I don't think Connolly's a bad player but he can't play with Keane. He needs a Quinn or even a Doherty to partner him if he's going to produce his best.

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Perhaps I over-exaggerated a bit, but they are both consistent goalscorers at the highest league in the world, so they definitly arent bad. I cant remember if it was on BigSoccer or here, but I explained exactly why he should be in the squad along with Keane, not necesarrily as a starter (Keane would start, but he would get tired, if we needed fresh legs, and Doyle and Elliott cant play without Keane, I dont know something like that, it sounded good at the time, perhaps it still does)