Getting into bed with the FAI

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21/07/2006, 12:49 PM
chippie0001

Getting into bed with the FAI

Just a short point but one I think is very valid in all these goings on. The FAI through licencing has had the chance to sort out football. Last season we had the charade of Rovers losing points cause the FAI had no rules, had not spotted anything in their licence application until they were told.

Now we have DC going nust half way through the season, Shels and Cork getting winding up notices, and loads of rumours of other clubs in money bother, less than six months after the licences were given out by the FAI.

So maybe all you people who see such a bright future in the hands of the FAI can relate this to the last two years of shambles caused by the FAI, not the clubs, not doing their job right. Will the amalgamation suddenly make the FAI do things right?
21/07/2006, 12:54 PM
Passive

It was, and is, the clubs who are not doing their jobs right. The FAI have fudged the licencing system, as can be seen by the farcical happenings of recent days, but the answer to this league's many problems is to strengthen the rules. That can't be done under the present system. The only shot we have is through 'jumping into bed with the FAI'.

I may have little faith in the FAI, but I have none in the clubs.
21/07/2006, 12:56 PM
chippie0001

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive

It was, and is, the clubs who are not doing their jobs right. The FAI have fudged the licencing system, as can be seen by the farcical happenings of recent days, but the answer to this league's many problems is to strengthen the rules. That can't be done under the present system. The only shot we have is through 'jumping into bed with the FAI'.

I may have little faith in the FAI, but I have none in the clubs.

Sorry Passive but you are wrong. If the FAI enforced the rules from day one, the clubs would have had to sort themselves out, we both agree on the clubs part of the problem. However the FAI have not enforced their own rules simple as. Why will that change as the FAI for the last 3 seasons had the power to stop clubs trading recklessly but ignored it.
21/07/2006, 12:57 PM
pineapple stu

Why can't the rules be implemented under the current system? It's "FAI" UEFA Licencing, not "eircom League" UEFA Licencing. It's the FAI who implement it, and the FAI who awarded Dublin City a licence this season when they clearly needed to be given a root up the hole and told to sort themselves out.

Yes, DC have to take a lot of the blame, but there is a system in place for sorting issues like this and it simply wasn't used.
21/07/2006, 1:16 PM
Passive

I totally agree that the FAI bottled the rules and totally failed in their job.

It just might be a case of the only cure being the pill that made you sick in the first place.
21/07/2006, 1:17 PM
green-blood

well Dub city put 1500 paying through the gate in their business plan, they had dalyer and premier status, they sold the FAI that vision

There's really not much the FAI could do with the Licence, the only thingi ts needed for is euro competition, after that because the leagveu was run by the clubs it was clear teh clubs would fudge everything to suit itself.

we're in a different boat from the end of this season with the FAI running everything, without individual club interests taking over

do I trust the FAI, eh hell no, do I prefer for everyone to be fecked over to the same degree, hell yes
21/07/2006, 1:39 PM
manic da hoop

Let's look at the real reason why Ronan Seery decided to call it a day, shall we? He new the game was up re the Premier Division. He had managed to put together a half decent squad of players that was actually doing ok in the top-flight, but once he got round to accepting that no matter how he cooked the books and spent outragiously on his team he was never going to convince the FAI to grant them a Premier Division place for next season. He knew the game was up - either continue on as normal and still be doomed to an indefinite future in Division One, or put a stop to it right now. If it wasn't for the imminant changes and tightening up of proceedures we wouldn't be having any kind of discussion about the demise of CHF either now or any time soon.
21/07/2006, 1:47 PM
WeAreRovers

Quote:

Originally Posted by green-blood

well Dub city put 1500 paying through the gate in their business plan, they had dalyer and premier status, they sold the FAI that vision

There's really not much the FAI could do with the Licence,

Well under licencing clubs must submit accounts every month so either Seery was a fraudster of Enron proportions or the FAI were asleep on the job. I'd go with B myself.

KOH
21/07/2006, 3:28 PM
BohDiddley

Quote:

Originally Posted by manic da hoop

Let's look at the real reason why Ronan Seery decided to call it a day, shall we? He new the game was up re the Premier Division. He had managed to put together a half decent squad of players that was actually doing ok in the top-flight, but once he got round to accepting that no matter how he cooked the books and spent outragiously on his team he was never going to convince the FAI to grant them a Premier Division place for next season. He knew the game was up - either continue on as normal and still be doomed to an indefinite future in Division One, or put a stop to it right now. If it wasn't for the imminant changes and tightening up of proceedures we wouldn't be having any kind of discussion about the demise of CHF either now or any time soon.

Good point. I haven't seen that said anywhere else, but it makes a lot of sense.
21/07/2006, 4:28 PM
passerrby

Fai are like monty pyton theyre making it up as they go along
21/07/2006, 4:31 PM
green-blood

I know WAR I know, what it means is he had a budget for the year, he has used that all now and will be insolvent if he carries on... coinsidering carrying on and finishing 4th will still see them demoted he's walked

no loss
21/07/2006, 10:50 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by green-blood

There's really not much the FAI could do with the Licence, the only thingi ts needed for is euro competition, after that because the leagveu was run by the clubs it was clear teh clubs would fudge everything to suit itself.

Yes there is - the FAI give out the licences to compete in the eircom League, so they just deny DC a licence.
22/07/2006, 9:41 PM
pete

The Revenue winding up order for CCFC was way out of proportion - do they issue wining up orders for any compnay that owes 160k for less than 12 months?

Dublin City were going to fold eventually as they cannot be sustained so i suppose it could be argued the FAI did a good job to force them out before they gathered larger debts? It had also been proven correct to keep DC out of the Premier next season as they could not pay for day to day expenses.
23/07/2006, 12:43 AM
RonnieB

They should investigate some of the GAA clubs! Lots of expenses!

Also getting into bed with the FAI is akin to getting into bed with a fat Aunt.

*shudder*
23/07/2006, 3:58 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

The Revenue winding up order for CCFC was way out of proportion - do they issue wining up orders for any compnay that owes 160k for less than 12 months?

I thought it was "historical debt". At least thats what Lennox said
23/07/2006, 6:34 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

I thought it was "historical debt". At least thats what Lennox said

By historic he meant last year :D

His explanation to the CCOSC was that the club estimated how much tax they owed a month and pay that.....unfortunately our accountants were way off(about 10,000 a month or so).

Stupid thing to let happen but its been paid. As he said was just an embarrassment more than something to worry about
23/07/2006, 7:03 PM
Mr A

Quote:

His explanation to the CCOSC was that the club estimated how much tax they owed a month and pay that.....unfortunately our accountants were way off(about 10,000 a month or so).

Stupid thing to let happen but its been paid. As he said was just an embarrassment more than something to worry about

If I were a Cork fan I would feel it very much is something to worry about. It's hardly rocket science to work out what tax is owed each month and that Cork managed to get it it so wrong for so long has to be cause for concern about how the club is run.
23/07/2006, 8:52 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galway Harps

If I were a Cork fan I would feel it very much is something to worry about. It's hardly rocket science to work out what tax is owed each month and that Cork managed to get it it so wrong for so long has to be cause for concern about how the club is run.

Lucky your not a Cork fan then ;)

I have no concern for how the club is run. Mistakes happen and this was a stupid one
23/07/2006, 9:53 PM
harpskid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galway Harps

If I were a Cork fan I would feel it very much is something to worry about. It's hardly rocket science to work out what tax is owed each month and that Cork managed to get it it so wrong for so long has to be cause for concern about how the club is run.

To be fair, I'd say that was just a wild bad error on the part of the club's accountant .
23/07/2006, 11:52 PM
4tothefloor

Quote:

Originally Posted by manic da hoop

Let's look at the real reason why Ronan Seery decided to call it a day, shall we? He new the game was up re the Premier Division. He had managed to put together a half decent squad of players that was actually doing ok in the top-flight, but once he got round to accepting that no matter how he cooked the books and spent outragiously on his team he was never going to convince the FAI to grant them a Premier Division place for next season. He knew the game was up - either continue on as normal and still be doomed to an indefinite future in Division One, or put a stop to it right now. If it wasn't for the imminant changes and tightening up of proceedures we wouldn't be having any kind of discussion about the demise of CHF either now or any time soon.

Spot on. Seery knew that Dublin City were going to be Division 1 next season BECAUSE OF the new requirements, and he also knew that his chances of ever getting promoted back to the Premier were slim and none - Mainly because no home ground and no paying fans. So as manic da hoop said, he knew the game was up and realised that the rest of the season was only going to cost him dead money.

My own opinion is that the FAI knew this was coming and desiantly allowed it to happen. What better way to frighten the sh!te out of clubs by having an example to show in Dublin City? The FAI are not fools, John Delaney isn't anyway. The whole point of these new requirements is to root out clubs like Dublin City, and to get clubs to basically cop themselves on and build for the future. Dublin City having to resign was a shock and a wake up call, an effect that Delaney is probably doing jigs about. I bet Delaney already knows the make up of the Premier for next season......
24/07/2006, 12:06 AM
green-blood

The FAI are not fools, John Delaney isn't anyway

a fool no, a devious cnut, yep
24/07/2006, 8:50 AM
bohs til i die

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

The Revenue winding up order for CCFC was way out of proportion - do they issue wining up orders for any compnay that owes 160k for less than 12 months?

The revenue are no longer cutting EL clubs any slack. Bohs came close [a few hours] to a winding up order last year, Shels & Cork got one for having 6 figure debts that were rising, not decreasing.

Other clubs are under investigation and from what I have heard two premier division clubs [non Dublin clubs and obviously not Cork or Derry] are in serious sh1t. Expect at least one more winding up order before the end of the season.
24/07/2006, 11:20 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by bohs til i die

The revenue are no longer cutting EL clubs any slack.

I believe this is the important point & seems that any tax arrears will mean the Revenue come down hard on clubs to force the issue.

As a Cork City fan i am happy that the tax situation has arisen as now we working off a clean slate. I would feel a lot more concerned if i supported a club whose tax matters have not reached the media yet as will always wonder how much is owed...

So the FAI have succeed in their first task of killing Dublin City (lets face it was a matter of time as could not continue as before) now for the next trick...
24/07/2006, 1:54 PM
monkey magic

Quote:

Originally Posted by bohs til i die

The revenue are no longer cutting EL clubs any slack. Bohs came close [a few hours] to a winding up order last year, Shels & Cork got one for having 6 figure debts that were rising, not decreasing.

Other clubs are under investigation and from what I have heard two premier division clubs [non Dublin clubs and obviously not Cork or Derry] are in serious sh1t. Expect at least one more winding up order before the end of the season.

why dont you just come out and say who it is if ya know? personally i wont be offended or surprised if ya said one of them was us... not that ive heard anything to that tune but its certainly not beyone the realms of possibility...

i might'nt like the fai but i do believe that their finally looking at sorting this league out, and john delaney is certainly no fool, im also starting to wonder if the revenue clamp down is mere coincedence or have they been alerted to the situation by the fai. if clubs are supposed to hand over accounts to the fai under licencing, it would'nt be too hard for them to be forewarded to the tax men for scrutinising. as someone said before, the fai had little power to enforce liscencing whilst control was in the hands of the clubs, and maybe this was their way of weeding out the problem children without having to enforce penalties??

btw i know little about the workings of the revenue so this is just idle wondering on my part...
24/07/2006, 7:15 PM
Vitruvian Man

I think your wonderings are way wide of the mark Monkey magic. The revenue have decided to crack down on clubs defaulting on taxes directly as a result of what happened with Shamrock Rovers.

Many of the Rovers fans signalled the revenues new hard-line attitude here on this board when they were going through examinership but they weren't believed. A couple of winding-up orders later and everybody is wondering what happend.

I just wish they would do full investigations of the clubs tax affairs rather than just demanding any outstanding money. I am convinced that some clubs were evading tax and I'd love to see them burn for it. Shels in particular.
24/07/2006, 9:44 PM
Clones Road Cas

Ok this isnt going to be a popular stance, but I honestly reckon that getting into bed with the FAI is the only way that an Irish League will be competitive in the future. I think in doing so the league will be altered to an extent that in ten years we wont recognise it in ten years but i believe it can be completely turned around.

In order to achieve this ALL the recommendations need to be followed, thus spelling the end of many of the clubs in the league as we know it, more than likely including my own. To me we have two choices, continue ****ing about as we are and eventually going back to all clubs being semi pro or accepting that sport is a business and getting into bed with the FAI and building a product which we can eventually flog to Sky as a summer filler.

This Sky project is an All ireland concept and wont have more than 12 teams and will have no relegation for the first handful of seasons. It would see Dublin teams cut to 2 / 3 and 4 teams max from NI including a Derry team.

We'll probably never get agreement for it but that is the option if you want a succesful league that can attract investment, infrastructure and quality players. As the song goes, Rip it up and Start Again.