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With the coming restructuring of the Eircom League,and all its conditions,will Hogan Park be up to staging Prem League matches next season,should we win the 1st div,or finish in a promotion place?It will be a travesty if things go wrong,as this club & its fans have taken more than their fare share of setbacks over the years!What do you think,lads?
IMO if we had got teh lease signed at the start of the season the ground would have been up to standard by next season - and we would have been invited to join premier. The new season is 4 1/2 months away - even if the lease was signed today there would not be enough time to get the needed work done IMO. The upshot is that if we are invited to join it will be on the basis that we do not have Hogan Park as our home ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle Barracks
Agree. The Criteria (prev posted somewhere on this forum) will not allow us to get promoted as we stand. Now, however, a new venue may make all the difference.
We will lose out on the UEFA A License, Lease and past seasons records I'm afraid.
A full copy of the proposal is available here.
A brief assessment on the new structure is here :
Independent Assessment Process An Independent Assessment Group (IAG), chaired by Des Casey, UEFA Life Member and
former FAI President, will work with set criteria to rank clubs 1 to 22 by end of November 2006.
Subject to ratification by FAI Board, Clubs ranked 1 to 12 as an outcome of the Independent
Assessment Process will compete in the eircomPremiership and those ranked 13 22 will compete
in the 1st Division for 2007 season
The FAI / eircomLeague Implementation Committee has agreed the criteria to be used by the
IAG and on-pitch and off-pitch performances are given equal weighting.
The IAG will allocate points against criteria such as licensing compliance, infrastructure, youth
development and target markets / attendance figures.
In addition a scoring system based on FIFA templates is in place to allow for clubs to be ranked
according to performances from 02/03-05 seasons in League, European, FAI & League Cups.
Using the same system clubs will be ranked at the end of the 2006 season.
Clubs will have the opportunity to present their plans for strategic development to the IAG and
each will be given time to meet and discuss those plans with the IAG.
In the event that clubs finish equal on all points allocated against the criteria then their league
standing at the end of 2006 season will decide their final ranking under the IAG process.
At the completion of its deliberations the IAG will present its recommendations to FAI Board.
Criteria for use by IAG
There is a 50-50 sporting v non sporting breakdown to reinforce the FAI position that on and off pitch standards are of equal importance.
The overall scoring breakdown is:
20% 2006 season League Finish + Cups +
Europe. FIFA system is used as a template. Total points gained across all
Competitions are tallied and used to rank clubs from 1 22. Scoring
points are assigned against rank from 200 for the club ranked no. 1
to 60 to the club ranked no. 22.
League: Premier Division League winners receive 22 pts, runnersup
21 pts to 1 pt for bottom place in 1st Division.
FAI Cup: Winners - 10 pts Runners-up - 8 pts Semi-Finalists - 6 pts
Quarter-Finalists -3 pts 3rd round losers-2 pts 2nd round losers -1 pt.
(note: League clubs enter @ 2nd round stage).
League Cup: Winners - 8 pts Runners-up - 6 pts Semi-Finalists - 4
pts Quarter-Finalists - 2 pts 1st & 2nd round losers - 1 pt
Europe Champions League qualifiers: win 3 pts; draw 1.5 pts
Champions League Group stages: win 6 pts; draw 3 pts
UEFA Cup qualifying matches: win 2 pts; 1 pt for a draw.
Inter Toto Cup qualifying matches: win 1 pt; draw 0.5 pts
UEFA Cup 1st Round matches: win 4 pts; draw 2 pts
02/03 - 2005 seasons
League Finish + Cups +
Europe
30% Performances across League, Cups and European competition in
02/03; 2003; 2004 and 2005 playing seasons are scored in
accordance with the system approved. Tallied points will equate to
rankings 1-22 and scoring points will be allocated (300-90).
Infrastructure
10% Considerations here to include Safe-holding (min. 3,000)
Unencumbered access Ownership / long term lessee / no.
covered seats / plans re infrastructure development etc
Club licensing:
Including governance, youth development etc
15% Only those applicants eligible to apply for an A licence will be
considered for assessment process.
15% Benchmarking will be based on licensing compliance record (i.e.
3year trends) and will provide the IAG with a clear picture of the
applicants performance against the licensing requirements, provide
a good indication as to progress made and the future sustainability
/ governance infrastructure of applicants.
The benchmarking process will be carried out by the Licensing Unit
and monitored by the Licensing Committee.
Each applicant will be asked to submit its strategy for the
continuing development of its organisation. Club representatives
will be invited to meet with IAG and IAG members may choose to
visit the clubs. The outcomes of the one-to-one meetings and the
comprehensive analysis of the material provided will allow IAG to
form an opinion and allocate a score.
Target Markets / population
densities / attendance
figures (04 & 05 figures
already available)
10% Using population data to highlight densities against existing clubs
and the trends in their attendance rates.
Those applicants, which stand alone in areas of large target markets
and which have established a solid base of support as indicated by
their consolidated attendance figures will be allocated high scores in
this category.
Are we then resigned to not being part of the Prem League next season?What about Jackman Park,Market's Field,or even Thomond Park?How would Lims fans,as well as potential ones,feel about seeing their side play out at such a venue?
Thomond Park and the Markets Field are not on-simply because we need longevity. Thomond Park is going under the knife itself in 16 months and will be out of commission for a long time thereafter. The Markets Field issue is a dead duck, and has already been flogged to death.
Jackman Park has good development potential, and would be many peoples favourite location-if it is re-developed and both parties (junior and senior) can see sense and play together.
If that's the case,why did the club relocate to Hogan?Was it purely to avoid ground-sharing/being tennants?Who owns Hogan anyway?Is it the club?Will Hogan ever be developed?
Hogan Park is owned by the Hogan family, Peter Hogan being the main man. He became very friendly with Fr. Joe Young during one of Joes soujourns to the States with his youth club. The ground is for the people of the area(supposedly) and has trustees appointed to look after its well-being, the main one being the good priest.
To cut a long, boring, many times told story short, the club need to sign a long term lease with Hogan(or the priest) but there seems to be stumbling blocks that nobody is quite sure about. A pending road development and a lot of loot for the current owner might be swinging the pendulum, but I'm not so sure about that...
Anyway..........it's a big mess!!
What about Market's Field?
I hope limerick do get promoted so everyone can see the sh*te we had to put up with at hogan park
Quotes from nshoop...............Quote:
Originally Posted by nshoop
Because they loved relegating us so much and wanted us to go out of existence,f*ck them,they were a waste of time and money!
BOLL*CKS,more fans come out because of our unfair reputation,to have a go at us or the thrill of seeing the dublin scumbags,you're talking out of your hole!
Good answer,screw these west brits
Tolka isn't theirs to sell and who begs to get into the stadium of sh*te or dalyer/castleknock
Its a shame that such a cultured, sensitive character as yourself had to make the trip down to the seething city of hate that Limerick clearly is. From your posts it is clear that the haven of wherever Rovers ground is this year has left you unprepared for such barbarity. I only hope that meeting the locals wont have damaged your gifted control of the English language.
Only reading this hours later,good research and reply man,but it's still a kip:DQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Cheers!! Its alright if we insult the place, but nobody else!!Quote:
Originally Posted by nshoop
Thomond Park is going under the knife alright but it will still be used during redevelopment. It would be acceptable for a premier license - I don't understand the longevity bit. It doesn't solve our long-term security alright but it would be acceptable to get us into the premier. There is no reason Hogan could not be redeveloped while we play in Thomond Park.
The Jacks is at the same stage of development as Hogan Park. The JAcks would not get a license as it stands. It would require teh same work as Rathbane would. It also has the problem of access - I can't see any alternative access point - I don't believe for a second that CIE would facilitate egress through the station.
The Markets Field only becomes an option if the city council make it a requirement for planning for the apartments the greyhound lads want to build there that a football ground is maintained. This won't happen.
IMO we won't be in the premier next season in Rathbane. It can only happen if we find an alternative short-term option. In th emeantime we need Rathbane to be developed. The priest is the key to this IMO. He signs a long-term lease and our future is secure. He doesn't and we rumble on as usual from crisis to uncertain crisis.
The plans for Thomond Park involve the surface being torn up for a lot of the development, and the IRFU have said that no games of importance will be played on it during reconstruction because the surface won't be suitable for rugby. If not suitable for rugby, then hardly for football?? Also, the IRFU will demand massive ground rent if they even agree to it, which I doubt. That would mean average gates of 3-4000 minimum...Not likely just yet. The longevity part of it means that Thomond would not be our long term home and therefore won't help with any promotion bid. You're right; the priest and whoever is pulling his strings hold the key, ergo....we're screwed!!Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC in Exile
Apparently there is some access point that can be developed there in between the station and Austin Quinlivans pub. If that could be developed, along with some cohesion with the LDMC boys, everyone would be a winner. But what are the chances of the latter??Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC in Exile
True, but if it hasn't been signed by now, then I don't believe its going to be...ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC in Exile
Who owns the Markets Field?Why was footy stopped there?What about them the other stadium ouy the Ennis Road,the GAA Grounds?Sorry if I'm moidering,but there's a hell of a lot that I don't know about footy in Limerick,as you can detect from my postings!
Football ceased to be in the Markets Field in the mid-80's because the powers that be at Limerick decided back then that buying the Old Crescent RFC grounds would be a good move. It could have been, but had the opposite effect on Limerick football, with the fans staying away in their thousands. The club fell into some bad bad times, Kentucky Fried Bad Times, some might say, and the club has more or less been in the doldrums ever since.
The GAA still prohibit football on their stadia, apart from the exception to their constitution to allow rugby and soccer to Croke Park. That marks out the gaelic grounds.
HAve you ever lived in Ireland? :rolleyes: :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle Barracks
No,I haven't!I've lived in Wales all my life!
We've never had a problem getting Thomond when we've asked. We started using it in 1960. I'm sure the IRFU would do a deal but the rent would be high. It would probably make sense for us to go in on the redevelopment if we were a premier division club but not at the current level.
Another option would e to do a deal with a local rugby club - Garryowen for example. it would have to be worth their while too though. In fairness rugby in the city has always accomodated football when asked.
But none of the rugby clubs' grounds would get a licence either. None have covered seating or even uncovered seating at that afaik.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Maybe teh answer could be to join up with the Desmond League and develop Askeaton. :eek:
Yes but we could build it and get a lease as part of the deal. Suits the club as they get their ground developed.Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC in Exile
Its true they have and yes Thomond park is a runner but only one problem, well two. There are two sitting tennants in there already, Shannon RFC and Bohemians RFC. If they were gone then the IRFU and FAI would joint fund the rebuilding of the stadium.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle Barracks
Well you need to be updated on this little island who spent 800 years trying to get out from under the yoke of the English so tht all our people were treated equally.Having finally done this we were taken over by a bunch of biggots who had branches to control various parts of our lives.The Catholic Church controlled homany children women had to have and collected tithes by coercion and threatenings of HELL,(No its Ireland not Iraque).we were goverened by a bunch of ultra conservative rednecks who always tried to keep the workers and unions down that that the commies would get power.This included a civil war,internment of Irish citizens,encouraged emmigration,and a boring choice of 2 right wing parties at election time,who used politics to keep themselves occupied after they finally got tired of the civil war.
And finally to control the physical and sporting developement of the people they invented this bunch of raving ,right wing ,Catholic,clergy ridden,lunatics and called themselves the Gaelic Athletic Association or the GAA(funny that the name is in English when they were supposed to develope all things Irish).
This body of august selfrighteous prats decided that if you played any other games other than Gaelic football of hurling you were a traitor.The biggotry continued by,and this really amazes me,not spreading these games,one of which is probably the best team game imaginable,throughout the world despite the fact that there are so many people from Ireland all over theworld. world.As a result of their power we cannot make serious inroads in international and "take our place among the nations of the earth".I hope tht clarifies the matter for you!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
The Thomond Park pitch is not being dug up, it will be kept open for HEC games during the redevelopment. The IRFU intend to rebuild a la Croker, section by section.
I started a thread on Munsterfans.com http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/for....asp?TID=19321
and it's clear the majority would be happy to see soccer played there again, even if it was only while Limerick FC got their own grounds up to par, or for bigger matches etc. Of course there has been big games played there before, and like most Limerick people (though admittedly nothing other than a nominal supporter of Limerick FC) I hope to see Limerick FC back up and competing in Europe someday. Hope the season gets back on track for the Blues and Limerick city gets to celebrate another sporting success (especially since our hurling championship looks to end in little under 2 hours.)
Summer football helps here and there isn't a huge overlap. We'd have a free run on Friday nights anyway in the few months of the overlap as the aIL is mainly saturday and the odd Sunday game. We'd need to be away when Munster have home Heineken Cup games.Quote:
Originally Posted by gael353
The cost would be prohibitive at this stage and no real point without a long term strategy. I imagine a minimum of 3,000 per match and probably a bit more.
Hogan Park isn't viable because of the Lease and Fr. Joe Young.
Thomand Park isn't viable because of the rental costs.
Jackman Park isn't viable because of access and it being a kip.
Since we've been moving around for years anyway, why not just start from scratch? Surely thats the only way we'll ever get it sorted. Get a completely new plot of land and develop it into the ground we need it to be.
We're not going to get promoted this year anyway. Drew can then do as he please's with the ground without having to negotiate with anyone. He could call it Super Dooper Danny Drew Park for all I care, as long as it could be developed in due course without the same outside interferences holding us back.
Somewhere close enough to the city like Coonagh Cross or even further down the dual carraige way past Hogan Park?? Is this viable???? Even if we get the lease for Hogan we pretty much have to start from scratch from a building point of view anyway. Surely in the long term a no strings attached site to build on is the best way forward.
Lets not forget that we don't know how much it would cost to rent Thomond, and that since Thomond would have improved corporate facilities, it might be possible to make Limerick FC soccer more attractive to "fair weather fans". Also, since Munster have 2 grounds (Musgrave in Cork) it would be possible to arrange games to suit both Limerick FC and Munster, with games that clashed having the option of being played in Cork.
Failing that, UL are rumoured to want establish their own FAI league club, why not propose a merger? UL could definately finance a small stadium, which they want to build anyway and have top class facilities. Is there a history here that I'm ignorant of?
A new stadium, clear of 25 year leases and all the other crap, would be the ideal situation, but hows does Limerick FC get there?
As a visitor to Limerick for our games with you over the past few seasons I feel that the best option would be Jackman Park, if, and I know it's a huge if, a deal could be done with the Junior League in Limerick this would represent the best option IMO to develop a ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by thelimerick
You say that Jackman is a kip but Turner's X was a kip in the late 80's early 90's, look at it now!
I for one would be totally against that hole that is jackmam park. It will never be an option as long as it has that one and only one pedestrian entrence. IMO the LDMC would be better selling up and moving in with Limerick in Hogan park (3 pitches instead of 1) A lot of talk is on which would be our best option, most of the grounds mentioned are grounds that the GAA would love, ie 1920s stadiums which can be brought into the year 1950 with some slatted units and some steel from Gleesons Farm constructions in Nenagh. I dont want that. I too dont want stands of "any sort" going up in any ground in the league anymore without good planning. As opposed to the "leen toos" and "covered terracing which is a symptom of many stadia througout this land. Markets field would be too expensive (est 4.5 million) Green field site? todays prices? Thomond park now there's a runner as the FAI and the IRFU could get over half the funding as it would/could be a joint development which the dept of sport seems to relish. Hogan park? the best we have and with huge potential. So for me its 1 Hogan Park, 2 Thomond Park, 3 Markets Field, 4 Green Field site 5 De Jacks.
UL has crossed my mind a few times as an ideal home. The club have trained there many times and with an established home support in place already along with what was until lately a side performing well, it could work for UL too. It would favour us more then UL though it has to be said and Danny Drew would surely have limitations put on him through the powers that be at UL.
The main problem for me with Jackman is that there would be no room to develop properly, its wedged in by houses and the station, how would a proper car park be facilitated, how would cars get in or out, not to mention the one stand there is falling apart. (It's no shed let me tell you!).
Still I'd say Hogan Park is foremost on Danny's mind, he's talking of aiming for a 25 year lease and how it will take hard work to get it. I don't know, a re-developed Hogan Park could still be on and could work out perfectly. Saying that I wouldn't turn my nose up at developing a new ground owned by the club. Id be worried that as long as we owe someone favours the same old problems will pop up again and again.
This is an interesting thread and the kind of things fans at the club should be discussing.
First off it has to be remembered that there is money available to the club to develop a ground if a long-term lease can be gained - so the club is not completely devoid of bargaining power.
The worry I have is that the Rathbane lease has not been signed yet - so will it ever be?
IMO Hogan Park is first choice. There is scope there to develop a fine smallish stadium - 3 pitches won't be needed so there may be scope for supervised parking. Who owns the land outside the ground?
UL is an interesting option. I doubt very much that the FAI would allow a second eL club in Limerick without LFC agreeing. Cork is unable to sustain two eL clubs - why would Limerick be different. However, the FAI will want to fill up their lower divisions when the new structure comes in and UL/AA are an u-21 club. There is scope for ground sharing. There is no need IMO to merge the clubs. LFC agree to allow UL play eL football, contribute to the stadium development if FAI allow and get a long-term lease to play at a UL ground. No problems with parking - this has great potential.
I wouldn't rule out a greenfield site. The problem, as Gael points out, is readies. Any site with good access will cost - look at the developments proposed for Coonagh roundabout area - land prices there will be going up rapidly. Unless there is land near the city that is zoned non-commercial or amenity and could be purchased at prices below development prices. Such a greenfield site could be developed with government and FAI money. The problem is languishing in Hogan Park in its current state in the first division until we get the ground developed.
I think the Jacks is out as long as access remains a problem. Even if a pedestrian egress was found next to the station that still leaves only two access points and both are narrow lanes. If we have a crowd of 4,000 and they need to get out quick it would be a potential disaster.
It seems DD is pursuing the HP option. And that's fair enough. But I hope he is also looking at other options - at least to let the trustees at HP know that we have alternatives.
By the way, there was some mention of the possibility of Hogan trustees not signing because of development potential on the ground. Does anyone know how that area is designated - i.e. is it designated for development in teh city development plan? Just because the hotel has gone up across the way doesn't mean HP can be developed. The city development plan was written when HP was a football ground and may have retained a designation for sporting amenity. If it hasn't we could lobby to have it made so. This removes any incentive for HP trustees not to sign lease.
The National Roads Authority have major plans for the area, although I'm not sure how they will affect Hogan Park. The roundabout at the end of the bypass will be abolished, and a huge flyover and toll road for access to the city is planned. The road will continue straight out to Coonagh Cross apparently. I'm sure this will involve the re-zoning of the land at Hogan Park and is probably affecting the value of the land...thus no lease signing until the full extent of the city plans are.Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC in Exile
Did a bit of searching - Hogan Park is designated as open space. The map is available here (who are Limerick City AFC? :) ). http://www.limerickcity.ie/services/...04/Map_DP1.PDF
This means that to develop on the land the designaiton would need to change - time to lobby our councillors not to change it.
I don't understand how the land is more valuable if the council want to develop a road connecting to Coonagh cross and a toll road (?) to the city. To do this across Hogan Park would involve a Compulsory Purchase Order. The CPO price is based on the alternative use of the land. If it is designated development then the CPO price is higher - if it is designated open space the land is worth very very little, because whoever buys it can do nothing with it.
Hogan will make nothing on this land as long as it is designated open space.
The Environmental Impact Assessment of the proposed new link road that JoeSoap is talking about is available here. http://www.midwestroads.ie/LSSR2/Pdf/EIS%20V1%20NTS.pdf
The part that is relevant for us (Page 11):
"A number of recreational facilities will be impacted by the proposed route including a juvenile soccer pitch as O'Higgins Drive, a sports pitch at John Carew Park and a training pitch at Portland Park. However, in mitigation, facilities of a standard, equivalent to that currently available, will be
provided as close as possible to the current location. An all-weather training pitch in the grounds of the Shannon Rugby Football Club will also be impacted by the proposed road and this will have to be relocated within the grounds of the club."
It seems the only toll plazas will be Clonmacken near Coonagh.
This indicates that HP will be near the new link road but not "under" it. As for waiting until plans are finalised, if that is the case then the interested parties should go to this website - its all finalised and construction due to begin this year. Gael, if DD doesn't know about this can you send him the links.
Amazing what you find on the internet. Now I need to do some work. :)