Croke Park atmosphere

Can't help thinking after watching the Dubs on The Hill yesterday, that Ireland's games will be missing something unless the crowd in the bucket seats can get some spark going.

I was in Upper Cusack yesterday near the Canal End and there did not seem to be much much noise coming from there. May be wrong but it looked like they were mainly Offaly fans there and even though they did not have much to shout about in the second half, there did not seem to be much life in them even when they were in the game in the first half.

Was also at last week's Ulster final in CP and although there was 50000 at it, it still felt half empty and the atmosphere was a bit flat. It certainly did not have the same buzz as the Dubs generated yesterday.

Anyone got any views, was anyone else at the game yesterday?

Yep I was there alright, only ever been to Croker a few times and not been on the Hill but without it the atmosphere would certainly be less. However, I'm a believer that when the big games come along the atmosphere comes with it, Israel & the french games were fairly vocal so I don't think we'll suffer unduely. Cannot wait!!!!

Croker is odd without the Hill. Had to do without it in 2003, and although that was a poor year for footballing reasons, the atmosphere was certainly diluted.

My prediction for the Ireland games is that the atmosphere will be only slightly better than the usual swill at Lansdowne, on account of the novelty factor. That is assuming the games in question are sell outs. Otherwise it'll be even more disjointed.

Won't be a patch on yesterday any way you look at it.

superhoops are you saying that the atmosphere at the dubs game yesterday was good?

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

Can't help thinking after watching the Dubs on The Hill yesterday, that Ireland's games will be missing something unless the crowd in the bucket seats can get some spark going.

I was in Upper Cusack yesterday near the Canal End and there did not seem to be much much noise coming from there. May be wrong but it looked like they were mainly Offaly fans there and even though they did not have much to shout about in the second half, there did not seem to be much life in them even when they were in the game in the first half.

Was also at last week's Ulster final in CP and although there was 50000 at it, it still felt half empty and the atmosphere was a bit flat. It certainly did not have the same buzz as the Dubs generated yesterday.

Anyone got any views, was anyone else at the game yesterday?

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What was the view like from that end of the Upper Cusack?
I could only watch both games on satellite. It appears to me that if there are <50,000 or so, there is an empty look to the stadium with a corresponding half empty echo sound from the crowd.
One factor that I suspect is with the stadium roof, doesn't trap the sound.

The camera at the LF panned the Hill a few times, you could see that it was rocking but the microphones didn't pickup the sound generated.

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Originally Posted by geysir

What was the view like from that end of the Upper Cusack?
I could only watch both games on satellite. It appears to me that if there are <50,000 or so, there is an empty look to the stadium with a corresponding half empty echo sound from the crowd.
One factor that I suspect is with the stadium roof, doesn't trap the sound.

The camera at the LF panned the Hill a few times, you could see that it was rocking but the microphones didn't pickup the sound generated.

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Was lucky to have a seat 5 rows from front so not too bad.

However, saw last years All-Ireland football from same section but two rows from back and it's a long way up and not the best view particularly when play is up the Railway end.

What will be crucial for soccer internationals will be how they lay out the pitch. The playing surface at CP is recorded as 144.5 m x 88m. The pitch size for international football games is 100m (minimum)/110m (maximum) x 64m (minimum)/75m (maximum). No doubt Steven Staunton will have an influence on pitch size but I guess we would prefer to play on a tight pitch.

Whatever the size, the pitch will be laid out with plenty of 'spare grass'. If they align the pitch centrally, it is likely to detract from the current view from both the Canal End and the Canal End wings of the Hogan and Cusack stands. If they align the pitch from directly in front of Canal End, as they do now for GAA games, this would have the effect of putting the 'away' supporters on the Hill further away from the game but I think it would mean that the most of the seats at the Railway end of the Hogan and Cusacks stands would be beyond the goal line at the Railway end. Also I don't think it would suit the corporate set-up many of whom could find themselves down looking over the penalty area at the Railway end.

As a Block Booker whose seat is currently at the Havelock end of the East Upper (Block US), if I am given a choice, I think I will opt for a more central seat preferably about 10/20 rows back on either the lower deck of the Hogan or Cusack, even if it will be twice the price of my current seat, after all it is only going to be for no more than 10 games before Lansdowne is redeveloped.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

superhoops are you saying that the atmosphere at the dubs game yesterday was good?

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It was excellent.

What made it better was how it changed a few times. They were buzzin before the game but for a good part of the first half when Offaly got the early scores and were outplaying them, it went quiet. They perked up just as half time approached when Dublin got back into it. But in the second half and with the Dubs playing some great football in towards The Hill, they were flying again.

Without doubt the best GAA supporters for atmosphere, even better than Cork in Thurles on Musnter final day.

i thought you just said in the first post that the atmosphere wasnt up to much and that for soccer it would be missing something.

i am totally confused now....

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Without doubt the best GAA supporters for atmosphere, even better than Cork in Thurles on Musnter final day.

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I would have to agree almost, i think per head the rossies have a great following and atmosphere at their games, and are the only other county to have songs to sing about the team.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

i thought you just said in the first post that the atmosphere wasnt up to much and that for soccer it would be missing something.

i am totally confused now.....

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Paul, I said the atmosphere was a bit flat at the Ulster final the previous week, not at the Dublin v Offaly game.

The point I was trying to make in my first post was that because the way Dubs had lifted it last Sunday and the fact that IMO it was a bit flat the previous Sunday at the Ulster final, much of the atmosphere at CP is created by a vibrant crowd on The Hill. Unless the crowd in the bucket seats on the The Hill at soccer internationals, who are are likely to be away supporters, generate a bit of buzz, there may be a danger that the atmosphere in CP could be flat, unless of course soccer supporters are more vocal than their GAA counterparts. Recent games at Landsdowne have been less than convincing.

The other point was that even a 50000 crowd in CP does not automatically result in a good atmosphere, as although there may be 50000 in, there will still be 32000 empty spaces. It is hard enough to generate good atmosphere in a full stadium, very difficult to do if it is only 60% full.

ok sorry, fair enough, i amnt trying to be annoying but this to be makes you think the atmoshphere was crap:

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Can't help thinking after watching the Dubs on The Hill yesterday, that Ireland's games will be missing something unless the crowd in the bucket seats can get some spark going.

I was in Upper Cusack yesterday near the Canal End and there did not seem to be much much noise coming from there. May be wrong but it looked like they were mainly Offaly fans there and even though they did not have much to shout about in the second half, there did not seem to be much life in them even when they were in the game in the first half.

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ya fair enough but with 50,000 there is only about 20,000 it is still a lot though in fairness, im pretty sure that all the qualifiers will be sold out, for the novelty experience alone.

I have sat in the cusack since its been done up and I find that atmosphere at gaa matches far better than soccer or rugby because you constantly have cheering and roaring becaues its end to end stuff, and every point or near miss generates a roar or whatever, unfortunately at soccer you only get this probably once every 7 - 10 minutes. I still think the atmosphere is very good at croke park at a dull enough game, cos it feels enclosed, though sometimes i feel that those sitting across the other side are almost so far away they are at another game....

actually i dont really know what the atmosphere is going to be like!!! :)

As an aside to this a number of the FAI and IRFU stewards attended the game working with their GAA counterparts.
Those that I talked to were well impressed with the whole deal.

To be honest, Id find it hard to think of any competitive game at lansdowne where the atmosphere was anyway lacking. The only one that comes to mind was prob the Swiss game (0-0) when I felt the whole place including the team was very flat.

I watched the game on TV and could barely hear the hill. Im sure they were generating a good atmosphere but without a roof that cant really be heard that well on TV. Id say if you moved all the people from the hill to a section under the roof the noise would be massive

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Id say if you moved all the people from the hill to a section under the roof the noise would be massive

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ya cos its the ppl!!!!! if the people in the stands made the same noise then it would be just as good!!!!!!!!

also, you have to remember from the person at the bottom of the hill - pitch side - to the speaker is still a good 6 metres i.e. 20 or so foot.

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Originally Posted by elroy

To be honest, Id find it hard to think of any competitive game at lansdowne where the atmosphere was anyway lacking. The only one that comes to mind was prob the Swiss game (0-0) when I felt the whole place including the team was very flat.

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Agree. So what if the atmosphere is lacking at a friendly? If there's something to play for the crowd gets excited. My expectation is that if we're in contention the atmosphere will be great. The crowd can usually sense when their input is required & responds. I for one couldn't be arsed singing at a friendly, not much anyway. At friendlies I attend to observe, at qualifiers I attend to support.

I was in the Upper Canal for last years All-Ireland QF against Tyrone and the atmosphere was amazing. Great view of the pitch as well.

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Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

I was in the Upper Canal for last years All-Ireland QF against Tyrone and the atmosphere was amazing. Great view of the pitch as well.

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When Dublin are playing at CP the atmosphere is generally good, until they know they are beaten, when it dies off.

I saw last year's hurling final from Upper Canal and even with a good crowd of Cork supporters in there it was quiter than I expected. I think that someone made the point earlier that because there are more scores in GAA games and the play moves from end to end so quickly, the tempo is different and the mood of the supporters is different.

I have no doubt the first couple of games will be buzzin, and also with the second game probably being under lights, I always think that adds to the atmosphere.

Roll on 24th March next year and we will see!!!

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea[B

]ya cos its the ppl!!!!! if the people in the stands made the same noise then it would be just as good!!!!!!!!

also, you have to remember from the person at the bottom of the hill - pitch side - to the speaker is still a good 6 metres i.e. 20 or so foot.

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Yeah thats what Im saying. If the people made the same noise it would be twice as good as it wouldnt drift away!!!

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Originally Posted by joema

Yeah thats what Im saying. If the people made the same noise it would be twice as good as it wouldnt drift away!!!

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In 04 when the Hill was gone, at times when the Canal End got going there was massive noise, but the Hill crowd were too diluted throughout the ground, that added to a poor season, it wasnt great overall. I remember the Kerry match in particular being totally dead.

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Originally Posted by Tenderloins

As an aside to this a number of the FAI and IRFU stewards attended the game working with their GAA counterparts.
Those that I talked to were well impressed with the whole deal.

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Did they like the pitch invasion?

will there be bucket seats on the hill for the international matches?
i was under the impression that we were no longer allowed by UEFA to use temporary seating for competitive games. i cud be wrong but i thought we got a dispensation for last qualifiers and avoided having to go over to uk to play home games. hopefully we will be allowed to use the hill as if there is one empty end of the ground a lot of the atmosphere will be lost.

as on previous posts THERE WILL BE seating on the hill. Its temporary seating on scaffolding thats not allowed. The hill is designed to allow proper seats be installed as and when needed. Already confirmed by JD

i take it there will be seats on the hill then....................

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Originally Posted by galwayhoop

i take it there will be seats on the hill then....................

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there will :rolleyes: there will :rolleyes: there will :rolleyes:

do you think there will be seats left at croke park for the big international games?

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Originally Posted by Forever Dreamin

as on previous posts THERE WILL BE seating on the hill. Its temporary seating on scaffolding thats not allowed. The hill is designed to allow proper seats be installed as and when needed. Already confirmed by JD

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Do you have a link to this confirmation?

As for the atmosphere I can't comment on what it is like for GAA but for football the fans will be a long way from the pitch and generally football stadia with running tracks etc lose quite a bit of the atmosphere. If the terracing remains closed this will also impact the atmosphere. It will still be a historic occasion

I imagine tickets will be very difficultt o get for the first match and subsequent games once we are still in contention to qualify.

worked in 'headquarters' for a summer.was at every game til the semis.(was working in the keg room - one of many!).to be honest for me the only time there was real atmosphere was when the dubs were involved (i'm from cork by the way so not biased in any sense!!)the dubs were the only ones who sang or chanted in any way for an extended period of time.i suppose the fact that the crowd isnt separated by county in the rest of the stadium and that the hill is specifically for the dubs when they are involved contributes to this
but i have to say the atmosphere on those days was electric.

i think that having the games in croker will have a huge effect on both players and fans alike - whatever you think of the shower that run GAA you cannot but say it is something that is fundamentally irish in its nature and having our national team taking on 'the fella's across the water' (well wales at any rate..) and those from further afield should invoke the 'tribal' influences that bill and eamon love talkin about.hopefully we'll be able to compensate for the distance from the pitch with this!

i also think that having hill 16 in use for the qualifiers is vital for atmosphere.For all the same reasons as above.

thanks for the heads up about the tickets.i'll be calling the fai on monday to get me name on whatever list there is!

being a staunch dub as well as Ireland and Pats, I have to say there is no irish sporting equivolent of hill 16 when the dubs are playing. Lansdowne can be good, this is just electric.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJr83...h=hill%2016%20

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Originally Posted by gspain

Do you have a link to this confirmation?

As for the atmosphere I can't comment on what it is like for GAA but for football the fans will be a long way from the pitch and generally football stadia with running tracks etc lose quite a bit of the atmosphere. If the terracing remains closed this will also impact the atmosphere. It will still be a historic occasion

I imagine tickets will be very difficultt o get for the first match and subsequent games once we are still in contention to qualify.

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it has been confirmed several times on these threads with various links posted. Also didnt Dortmund have bucket seats for the semi final, dortmund have the biggest terrace in a soccer ground in europe apparently but convert to seats for euefa fifa games

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Originally Posted by Forever Dreamin

it has been confirmed several times on these threads with various links posted. Also didnt Dortmund have bucket seats for the semi final, dortmund have the biggest terrace in a soccer ground in europe apparently but convert to seats for euefa fifa games

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Well can I be dense and ask for one of the links - to a report quoting John Delaney obviously not one of the posts on here.

I haven't heard it. I spoke to somebody on reading these threads who should know. He wasn't aware of it and his understanding is that no decision has been made to use bucket seats and his own take on it was that we probably wouldn't use them even if we could get permission.

It is possible to do it. It will require permission from UEFA. However the F.A.I. only broke even on the bucket seats at Lansdowne. They were needed because of the pressure on tickets and the effect of having 2 empty ends at a stadium. It may well be done this time too but I'm not aware of a definite decision either way.

They did indeed install seating on the terracing in the Westphalia stadium in Dortmund for the World Cup. These were individual seats and different to the bucket seats at Lansdowne.

There was a thread on this subject in April in the Ireland forum. The news was officially announced by Delaney around April 20. I heard a number of radio interviews with him stating the details.
Links were thin on the ground then but the consensus (here) was that this was above board.
Hill 16 was designed to take installation of temporary seating just as the German stadiums are, this fully complies with all regulations. It's taken as fact and the discussion moved on to that the away supporters (German & Welsh) will be seated there.

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Originally Posted by gspain

Well can I be dense and ask for one of the links - to a report quoting John Delaney obviously not one of the posts on here.

I haven't heard it. I spoke to somebody on reading these threads who should know. He wasn't aware of it and his understanding is that no decision has been made to use bucket seats and his own take on it was that we probably wouldn't use them even if we could get permission.

It is possible to do it. It will require permission from UEFA. However the F.A.I. only broke even on the bucket seats at Lansdowne. They were needed because of the pressure on tickets and the effect of having 2 empty ends at a stadium. It may well be done this time too but I'm not aware of a definite decision either way.

They did indeed install seating on the terracing in the Westphalia stadium in Dortmund for the World Cup. These were individual seats and different to the bucket seats at Lansdowne.

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If i remember the first confirmation came from a sppech by Delaney down in Kilkenny a few months ago, it was also stated that as the hill is completely sperated from the rest of the ground it was ideal for visiting supporters, and no irish supporters would be housed here. I would agree that there may not be the demand for the seats from Cyprus & Slovakia and the cost of installation was very expensive for lansdowne. However i have no doubt that if as is pretty likely that the 4 Croke Park matches are sold as one they will sell out in an instant regardless of price. THen the FAI will probably only install enough bucket seats ( or whatever you want to call them) as the visitors are bringing. I beleive the cost per seat in Lansdowne was approx €15. It should be lower in Croker as no scaffolding needs to be errected, and the seats can be individually bolted to the terrace as per the design.

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Originally Posted by Forever Dreamin

I would agree that there may not be the demand for the seats from Cyprus & Slovakia and the cost of installation was very expensive for lansdowne. However i have no doubt that if as is pretty likely that the 4 Croke Park matches are sold as one they will sell out in an instant regardless of price. THen the FAI will probably only install enough bucket seats ( or whatever you want to call them) as the visitors are bringing.

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It looks to me that the Hill can easily be divided to accomodate a small travelling support in one section and Irish supporters taking over the rest of the temporary seats. For some games at Croker only one section of the Hill is opened up. Are there clear regulations on how away fans should be seperated?

the hill is divided into three sections as it is

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Originally Posted by gspain

As for the atmosphere I can't comment on what it is like for GAA but for football the fans will be a long way from the pitch and generally football stadia with running tracks etc lose quite a bit of the atmosphere.

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As an aside Gary, I am a firm believer that this is used by fans who can't get it together enough to create an amosphere. I remember going to see Roma play an its still loudest I've heard and that looked like on big running track to me. So the same at Croke Park, where there is no track, if you are passionate enough and organised enough an atmosphere should never prove a problem.

certainly looked a hell of an atmosphere when germany beat portugal there in the 3rd place game. hopefully we will dampen it a bit for them with a few robbie keane goals !