Holding midfielder in-waiting?

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31/05/2006, 11:03 AM
Stuttgart88

Holding midfielder in-waiting?

I know we've been critical of O'Shea, and we've been debating the merits of Kavanagh. We've also been keeping Joey O'Brien and Owen Garvan in mind, maybe also Darron Gibson.

But one guy we've consistently been failing to mention is Glenn Whelan.

Very similar player to Michael Carrick in my opinion & like Kavanagh, but not O'Shea, is a natural giver & taker of the ball.

Great range of passing and very strong shot. Owls Fan has seen more of him than most and is not overly positive. But he's still young (though not sure why he's still U21 eligible) and is more advanced in terms of games played at a decent level than the above.

I hope SWFC have a much better season, or he gets a move higher up.

soccerc on this board knows him personally. At the Swiss U21 game I said I reckon he's actually a future Irish captain. Good call or off-your-bloody-head call?

I'm assuming he was injured for the Azerbaijan games. He was in the original squad but not the final squads.
31/05/2006, 11:17 AM
OwlsFan

You won't find very many positive things being said about Whelan I am afraid on the Wednesday Boards. He seems to have gone backwards last season - for every good pass there is a misplaced one or possession lost. He found the step up to the Championship a bit tougher than expected but let's see how he goes next season. Not international standard yet.
31/05/2006, 11:55 AM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalfootball

Does anyone know much about Micheal Doyle at Coventry?

Not really. I've seen little of him, but AFAIK he's a left-footed mifdfielder who has played centrally this year having previously been a left-sided midfielder and occasional left-back. I hear he packs a mean shot. Coventry are rarely on TV and I wouldn't travel to watch them!

I think both he and Liam Miller were on loan from Celtic together at Arhuus(?) in Holland under Marc Rieper.

Wasn't he in the squad out in the Algarve?
31/05/2006, 12:09 PM
eirebhoy

I had high hopes for Whelan when he was playing with Joey O'Brien in League 1 but he gets slated on the Wednesday boards now so he has been overtaken by the likes of Garvan now in my view. Hopefully it's just a confidence thing with him though as he did look really good when I saw him on tv.
31/05/2006, 8:04 PM
dr_peepee

Whelan's still young though...
31/05/2006, 10:17 PM
pineapple stu

Wasn't Doyle in the recent Ireland squad?
01/06/2006, 5:42 AM
Plastic Paddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by totalfootball

There always seems to be more interest in people who might be Irish (eg. Gavin Mahon) than in people who actually are Irish.

That's because - as in the case you cite - they might actually do a job for us in a position where we're exposed currently. I don't see Doyle or Whelan being able to step up in the next qualifying campaign as Mahon quite conceivably could. That's got to be the clincher, no?

:ball: PP
01/06/2006, 7:54 PM
soccerc

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I had high hopes for Whelan when he was playing with Joey O'Brien in League 1 but he gets slated on the Wednesday boards now so he has been overtaken by the likes of Garvan now in my view. Hopefully it's just a confidence thing with him though as he did look really good when I saw him on tv.

It's been a confidence thing with Glenn to an extent. He played through the season while carrying an injury. "I�ve been struggling with a niggling groin injury and am set to see a specialist in the next day or so,� he said before withdrawing from the Irish Under 21's for the Azerbaijan games. AFAIK he was due to have surgery on the injury two weeks back.
02/06/2006, 9:49 AM
geysir

"holding midfielder"

This type of player was always known as the sweeper. When did the sweeper begin to be called the holding (hanger on) midfielder? Isn't it some football buzz word used as if to describe some new progressive tactical role?
02/06/2006, 10:38 AM
Irish_Praha

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

This type of player was always known as the sweeper. When did the sweeper begin to be called the holding (hanger on) midfielder? Isn't it some football buzz word used as if to describe some new progressive tactical role?

I thought a sweeper was considered part of the defence rather than the MF. A holding midfielder is definitely one of the two players in CMF.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/h...00/3636899.stm
02/06/2006, 10:54 AM
geysir

That looks to me to be the Italian version :) where the sweeper is behind the back line. But the role was also in front of the defenders, intercepting, anticipating and setting up forward moves.
But as you say it's one of the cb's and not one of the midfielders.
02/06/2006, 11:50 AM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

This type of player was always known as the sweeper. When did the sweeper begin to be called the holding (hanger on) midfielder? Isn't it some football buzz word used as if to describe some new progressive tactical role?

All the recent SKY TV know-it-alls now just refer to it as "the Makelele role" like nobody had ever played that type of role before him!

I refer to a holding midfielder as a guy who sits deep and acts almost as intermediary between the goalie or centre-backs and the rest of the team when developing play, and protecting the defence when the opposition has the ball.

Roy Keane used to play this role in his sleep but was never defined as a holding midfielder because on top of this he was also the best attacking midfielder in the game.

I'd never really define Kavanagh as holding midfielder because he's equally at home on the edge of his own box as he is at the edge of his opponents' box. I prefer to refer this type of player, the catalysts for all attacking moves, as a playmaker. However, it appears now that a playmaker is only perceived as being the "1" in a 4-3-1-2, i.e., the way the French use Zidane, i.e., no defensive responsibility. No?

The term "sweeper" is closer to the modern "holding midfielder" term, though didn't sweepers also play behind the centre-backs, not just in front?

Has anyone noticed a trend towards calling "centre-halves" back to "centre-backs"? I think the old centre-half was a holding midfielder! It's a bit like rugby, when the term "lock" seems to describe something different every few years: second row , no. 8 etc.
02/06/2006, 12:04 PM
Irish_Praha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

All the recent SKY TV know-it-alls now just refer to it as "the Makelele role" like nobody had ever played that type of role before him!

I refer to a holding midfielder as a guy who sits deep and acts almost as intermediary between the goalie or centre-backs and the rest of the team when developing play, and protecting the defence when the opposition has the ball.

Roy Keane used to play this role in his sleep but was never defined as a holding midfielder because on top of this he was also the best attacking midfielder in the game.

I'd never really define Kavanagh as holding midfielder because he's equally at home on the edge of his own box as he is at the edge of his opponents' box. I prefer to refer this type of player, the catalysts for all attacking moves, as a playmaker. However, it appears now that a playmaker is only perceived as being the "1" in a 4-3-1-2, i.e., the way the French use Zidane, i.e., no defensive responsibility. No?

The term "sweeper" is closer to the modern "holding midfielder" term, though didn't sweepers also play behind the centre-backs, not just in front?

Has anyone noticed a trend towards calling "centre-halves" back to "centre-backs"? I think the old centre-half was a holding midfielder! It's a bit like rugby, when the term "lock" seems to describe something different every few years: second row , no. 8 etc.

Some interesting points but I bet we wouldn't be discussing such a topic if Ireland were playing in the world cup next week! :D

I was disappointed when we didn't qualify but now that's it's just around the corner I feel even worse :(
The fact that i live in Germany now doesn't help either. The pre World Cup fever is unrelenting here. Members of the German team are in every second ad on TV and the majority of the other ads involve the WC somehow.

I went to the supermarket yesterday and there was WC wine, butter in the shape of a football (Kerry Gold beleive it or not), all the chocolate bars had a football on them, WC cuttlery, WC bread boards, WC underwear, WC saving foam etc.
:mad:
02/06/2006, 12:27 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish_Praha

Some interesting points but I bet we wouldn't be discussing such a topic if Ireland were playing in the world cup next week! :D

I was disappointed when we didn't qualify but now that's it's just around the corner I feel even worse :(

I know, it's awful isn't it? There's St. George's flags on every car over here, every council flat window and every pub window. Even my missus (English) has bought 3 Lion dribble bibs and an English shirt for my 8 month old boy. There's nothing I can do :(

My time will come though.
02/06/2006, 12:40 PM
OwlsFan

That last phrase is painfully close to that of an illegal organisation ;)

Wednesday have now bought a new midfielder (Kenny Lunt) from Crewe. Hope this doesn't mean Whelan is dropping down the pecking order.

Only the 2nd WC in 16 years we haven't been at - hurts. There is a generation of teenagers out there who expect us to be at these event. I am from the generation which doesn't expect us to be there.
02/06/2006, 12:41 PM
TheJamaicanP.M.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I know, it's awful isn't it? There's St. George's flags on every car over here, every council flat window and every pub window. Even my missus (English) has bought 3 Lion dribble bibs and an English shirt for my 8 month old boy. There's nothing I can do :(

My time will come though.

Stutts, I just hope your son doesn't declare for England. If you inform Stan of his eligibility, I'm sure he'll be joining Terry Dixon in the next squad.:D
02/06/2006, 12:50 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

That last phrase is painfully close to that of an illegal organisation ;)

Was meant entirely innocently!

It was more maent with a view to me & my little fella going off to (insert country, or countries hopefully) watching Ireland together for years to come. And maybe as JPM suggests, watching him play.

If he picks up my dad's genes he's every chance, if he picks mine up sadly it'll be years of talking ****e on the internet.
02/06/2006, 1:09 PM
geysir

My teenage boy got out of bed at 6am here to watch Ireland v Cameroon, I almost shed a tear.
02/06/2006, 1:18 PM
Plastic Paddy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Even my missus (English) has bought 3 Lion dribble bibs and an English shirt for my 8 month old boy. There's nothing I can do

Every cloud has a silver lining Stutts. Dribble bibs double up handily as emergency nappy liners... ;) :D

:ball: PP
02/06/2006, 1:39 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

Every cloud has a silver lining Stutts. Dribble bibs double up handily as emergency nappy liners... ;) :D

lol :)
02/06/2006, 4:41 PM
OwlsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

My teenage boy got out of bed at 6am here to watch Ireland v Cameroon, I almost shed a tear.

His mother from Cameroon ;) ?