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Alot of talk about the IL resorting to 10 or 12 teams in the IPL to increase competition and quality. The EL currently have 12 teams but was wondering what number of teams people would prefer to have in the EL if given a choice.
Would an increase reduce quality drastically or add a bit of excitement with new teams etc.
16-18 teams with two regional first divisions north and south.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassa
Have to agree with you. I think playing each team twice a year is enough and with 15 grounds to visit it adds a bit of excitement to travelling to support Loughgall which trust me can be very hard to do.
What are the pubs in Loughgall like ?? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassa
Looking at some of the large population centres in ROI that arent represented in the ELP it suggests that the ELP could be expanded?
Problem is dassa that clubs don't want to know. Its not a closed shop, if someone applies to enter the league (with proper structures) they'll be more then welcomed
10 teams is too few - playing Pats 3 times a year is bad enough, 4 should be dealt with under the geneva convention; more than 12 and the quality - I use the term loosely -wouldn't be there. A 16 team AIL would work though.
Interesting points, In IL the Glens and Blues have met so many times this season i get the impression the fixture may loose the bite it has. If the league was reduced further another two fixtures against each team would be added, would this really bring the crowds back? I think that an overhaul of the competitions clubs play in needs to be brought in. Do EL clubs play in regional cups such as your own versions of Co Antrim shield, Mid Ulster cup etc. Fixtures like these add a burden that could easily be removed.
No - just league, cup and league cup; add the Setanta though, and the potential for Cork - Drogs clashes this year rises to 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassa
Oh my gawd !! :eek: :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
I think it was only about two years ago, but between League, League Cup and FAI Cup we played Drogheda 7 TIMES one season. By God I was delighted to see the end of those games once the last one was out of the way!
It's only a matter of time, but I can't wait until the administrators of both our leagues see sense and we have a16 team AIL. How the IL has sustained the amount of sides in it's top division that would struggle in the eL first division defies logic. It's not the be all and the end all, but it makes sense and with proper marketing and more importantly FOLLOW UP, we could really get football on this island recognised by the blind minions.
18 teams in one league, with teams from North and Republic is the future of football on this island.
What's your basis for this?Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesThompson
Cork like to win the Munster Senior Cup every year to massage their egos, but the rest of us don't need to.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassa
It's a clear sign of problems when the number of teams in a league is changed twice in quick succession. Personally, I'd prefer an All-Ireland fully-professional League of about 12 teams, because I don't think there's sufficient quality/resources for more at the minute. Otherwise, what we have down south is fine now. The Irish League is f*cked.
10 team premier
10 team first division
3 regionally based second divisions (winners of each enter playoff with bottom of first for promotion)
all clubs absorbed into a pyramid system.
The problem I'd have with a league any bigger than 12 is that with 3 eurpoean places and 2 relegation places the mid-table would become too big. Too many clubs would know very early that they aren't going to either qualify for europe or get relegated and we would have a lot of meaningless games.
Perhaps a 16 team league with an expanded Setanta could change that. You have 6 less games in the schedule and more empty schedule slots to play with. You could also give all Setanta qualifiers a bye to the League Cup 2nd round. Of course any expanded Setanta does create problems with the different league schedules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
I wouldnt say that, some clubs are in problems but sure isnt that the case with every league. I actually think that the troubles with some clubs like Coleraine and Ards have been a blessing in disguise as it has maybe brought it home to other clubs that paying ridiculus money to semi-pro players is not sustainable in the long term. I personally cant see an AI league, An expansion of the Setanta possibly but AI league will not solve the problems of armchair fans watching Man utd on Sky on saturday or the impressions given out by our local media. I think that the novelty of the Setanta is already wearing off and attendances havn't been great.Quote:
Originally Posted by JW.
Fiddling around whether there'll be 10 or 12 or 40 teams in the EL is like arranging deckchairs on a leaky boat. Unlike the Titanic, the EL and IL will both struggle along never really getting anywhere but are always in danger of sinking. There just has to be some form of league encompassing the while island.
So what if European places are "lost" - already covered in another thread - but the Setanta showed that a league of the best clubs in this small island, with games played on Friday nights and Saturday nights has real potential. You could have afternoon games on a Saturday too.
Financially, the current set up, North and South, is really unsustainable and finance will dictate in the end. Fcuk all the bullsh!t about Green and Orange tradition/politics. I wouldn't give a flying fcuk if Linfield fans came to Mels and sang God save the Queen until their throats went hoarse - if that floats their boat so be it. What I'd want to see is a good game of football between a good Linfield side and (hopefully) a good Athlone side.
Personally, I'd have far more in common with Linfield, Glentoran than fcuking Chelsea, Manure and, yeah, even West Ham whom I have a soft spot for and that's all.
I'd love to see games involving Dungannion, Linfield etc and Athlone in our new ground.
Dassa, aside from Linfield and Glens what clubs are big enough up north to be competitive in a 12 team all island league?
well people talk about future potential of D,Celtic. so in the long term them, also a competitive Portadown side would be ambitous enough and also Ballymena, possibly Glenavon(one of the nicest stadiums for irish football, pity about the team on the pitch for their fans)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassa
For all the talk about DC I gather their spectator facilities are nil so their potential may be overstated, even if they are promoted.
A ground share with Cliftonville may not be the answer, especially if Cville think they may lose fans to DC.
Although it's not exactly scientific, I suppose it comes from (a) listening to the IL fans on the Irish League Forum and (b) my own judgement coming from looking at the Setanta Cup. I really thought Glentoran would do a lot better this year as I thought Portadown would. Neither were at the races and this despite playing our teams who had barely started our own season and them with 3/4's of a season behind them.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
I suppose I was more making the point that there would most likely be more teams from the Republic in an All Ireland Premier League than there would teams from the North. At a guess a 16 team AIL could be made up of the following teams (in no particular order);
Bohs
Cork
Drogheda
Shels
Pats
Derry
Longford
Sligo
Waterford
Bray
Linfield
Glentoran
Portadown
Dungannon
Cliftonville
Newry
Anyway don't be offended if your team isn't here, I don't feel too strongly if it's Bray or UCD to be honest or Dublin City or Shamrock Rovers.
Our participation in the MSC is more to stay well in with our landlords.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
Plus to give them a decent gate for the final. At least there would be if Cobh didn't lose to MSL teams in the semis every year:D
Dc have had three years in the 1st division to bring their ground up to standard. I know clubs like Loughgall and Armagh who have got up have poor enough grounds however they are still substancially better than that on offer at DC. DC seem to be using the notion that they want put the effort into their ground until assured promotiom and this leaves it to late to sort it out before season starts, shortsighted on their behalf? possibly.Quote:
Originally Posted by paudie
As for Cliftonville groundsharing, not sure. They are a very good club in terms of helping others out (Ards). But could their pitch take that sort of action?
That's reasonable enough. Falkirk had the same problem in Scotland. The money could only be set aside if they were guaranteed promotion to offset the expenditure, yet the deadline for the critera was before promotion could be guaranteed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassa
There's only been four teams from the North in the Setanta Cup: Linfield, Glentoran, Portadown and Dungannon. There's only been five teams from the Republic: Cork, Shels, Drogs, Longford and Derry.Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesThompson
You can't compare both leagues when only 9 teams out of 38+ (I don't know how much teams are in the Irish First Division) play each other in competitive matches.
[QUOTE=superfrank There's only been five teams from the Republic: Cork, Shels, Drogs, Longford and Derry.
[/QUOTE]
a one man border commission!
Very irredentist too. He's annexed territories from both Northern Ireland and the People's Republic of Cork.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofstan
AI league aside what would most people see as the right number for EL
10
12
14
16
You're probably right, but the fact that the four teams from the eL were a damn site better than the bulk of the 4 sides from the IL which in all honesty is thin at the top in terms of quality, would allow one come to a general conclusion that the eL clubs in general are better than the IL Clubs as was proved this year. Admittedly, this is not an exact science, but nobody has hard facts on this assumption, but it is my view.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
12 is about right I think. Playing everyone 4 times is too much IMO and I don't think there's enough quality to have any more than 12 unfortunately. Ideally, I'd like 16, playing everyone twice but there certainly aren't enough good teams for that now (if ever).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassa
Anopther to remember is that clubs want as many game as possible (clubs, not managers) as it means more income. They're unlikely to want 3/6 less games