Threats of death force two soccer players to quit the North

FROM SHELSWEB

What a disgrace! Has there been much in the media about this and if so how can this sort of thing go on in this day and age?! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Sounds like the handywork of Loyalist paramilitaries. Some of the groups have close links to far-right movements in Britain, and seem unwilling to tolerate anyone who's not the proverbial 'WASP'.

They've been involved elsewhere in the province in intimidating and attacking immigrants of all nationalities and colours. A few Chinese and African people were burnt out of their homes in loyalist areas of Belfast about 9 months ago. Polish people have been attacked in the Waterside area of Derry previously, for no apparent reason other than the fact they were foreign.

Whilst Republican groups are guilty of many things, they don't have a history of targetting immigrants.

Bad news for Institute as well, as they're struggling to avoid the relegation play-off spot.

Absolutely nothing to do with Institute or football, or even racially motivated. One of these guys got into a row with someone, threatened them and its led to this, afaik.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Sounds like the handywork of Loyalist paramilitaries. Some of the groups have close links to far-right movements in Britain, and seem unwilling to tolerate anyone who's not the proverbial 'WASP'.

They've been involved elsewhere in the province in intimidating and attacking immigrants of all nationalities and colours. A few Chinese and African people were burnt out of their homes in loyalist areas of Belfast about 9 months ago. Polish people have been attacked in the Waterside area of Derry previously, for no apparent reason other than the fact they were foreign.

Whilst Republican groups are guilty of many things, they don't have a history of targetting immigrants.

Bad news for Institute as well, as they're struggling to avoid the relegation play-off spot.

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Not like you getting things mixed up eh? I think before typing something making accusations you should get your facts right.

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Originally Posted by David

Not like you getting things mixed up eh? I think before typing something making accusations you should get your facts right.

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Why, do you or maybe a friend of yours know the facts David???;)

If not, how do you know dcfcsteve is not barking up the 'Right' tree???

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Originally Posted by David

Not like you getting things mixed up eh? I think before typing something making accusations you should get your facts right.

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Woo-hoo ! Just cuz I had the temerity to give a logical arguement elsewhere on tis site as to why I thought Linfield would finish 3rd or 4th in the current EL, David has to turn his anti-Derry chip into an anti-me one ! Well, I am flattered David - I rarely get such attention..... :)

As my post intially stated - it "sounds" like the handiwork of Loyalist paramilitaries. I didn't say it was, but it most definitely would not be a surprise to anyone if it was. Or are you going to deny that Loyalist groups have been involved in rascist attacks/incidents elsewhere in Derry/Northern Ireland of-late ? Also - are you aware of all the facts on this issue yourself ? If not - touche Rodney, touche....

And before you go wild with your usual conspiracy theories - I am on the record on this site for the last number of years as happily criticising Republican groups as well. Can't have you unwittingly adding to the list of fantasy evils you like to atribute to me. :)

There have been many racist attacks on people in NI in both communities that have had nothing to do with paramilitaries, a problem in our community that needs removed.

Exactly Dassa and given that both of those involved were on UTV last night stating that it was not racially motivated, I think me stating there was no racial element is on pretty safe ground.

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Originally Posted by Krstic

Why, do you or maybe a friend of yours know the facts David???;)

If not, how do you know dcfcsteve is not barking up the 'Right' tree???

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See my above post before making snide remarks please.

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Originally Posted by David

See my above post before making snide remarks please.

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But my snide remark was made at 3.44pm, am I supposed to read your posts before you post them???

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Originally Posted by Krstic

But my snide remark was made at 3.44pm, am I supposed to read your posts before you post them???

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Why the need for the remark in the first place. I, and indeed another poster stated how far out the racially motivated angle was yet you see fit to come out with such a childish post.

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Originally Posted by Dassa

There have been many racist attacks on people in NI in both communities that have had nothing to do with paramilitaries, a problem in our community that needs removed.

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Very true indeed.

But also true is the fact that certain loyalist paramilitary groupings have close links to right wing groups in Britain. Also true that certain Loyalist paramilitary groups have in the recent past targetted - for both intimidation and attack - immigrant members of the community in various parts of Northern Ireland. Including the Waterside of Derry.

If there's a major bank robbery in Northern Ireland, people naturally suspect a degree of IRA involvement. If a group of men turn up with weapons at the house of immigrants - in a Loyalist part of Derry that has seen rascist attacks previously by Loyalist paramilitaries - and force them to leave the city, it should likewise come as no great surprise that people assume a degree of Loyalist involvement. This is not difficult to understand.

Whils there may well not have been an essentially rascist motice behind this event, i still personally suspect a degree of loyalist involvement. We all know that in Northern Ireland there are certain types of death threat that you can ignore as being big-chat from little men, and some that you have to take very seriously. This sounds like it was the latter. The murder of Robert McCartney may not have been an 'IRA activity', but it was carried out by people involved in the IRA. Likewise - though it may not have been an official Loyalist action, I personally suspect that people associated with Loyalist paramilitaries may have been involved here, given how seriously the threats have been taken.

I suspect the truth will come out eventually and prove me right or wrong.

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Originally Posted by gonzo

Loyalist paramilitaries are by definition, fascist, racist scumbags.:mad: End Of.

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I have no time for them but in saying that some of these groups have been quite outspoken against racism. Why even mention racism though when it is simply not a factor here. Indeed if you check out the Institute forum on ILF you may well get closer to the truth.

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Originally Posted by David

I have no time for them .

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:confused: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Krstic

:confused: :rolleyes:

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Care to explain?

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Originally Posted by David

Care to explain?

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Not really David, but a picture tells alot of stories.

So if you are pictured with someone from Sinn Fein at a football match does that make you a supporter of the IRA?

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Originally Posted by David

So if you are pictured with someone from Sinn Fein at a football match does that make you a supporter of the IRA?

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I wouldn't know David, as I've never attended a match with either.

Note the words 'Attended with', that's different to being 'pictured with.'

So you tell me!!!

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Originally Posted by Krstic

I wouldn't know David, as I've never attended a match with either.

Note the words 'Attended with', that's different to being 'pictured with.'

So you tell me!!!

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What do you want me to tell you? If someone was at a Derry City game with Martin McGuinness, does that make them a supporter of the IRA? This is going way off subject here but I do not like the implications towards me.

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Originally Posted by David

What do you want me to tell you? If someone was at a Derry City game with Martin McGuinness, does that make them a supporter of the IRA?

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In my book, quite possibly.

But more to the point, does working for a certain security firm in Derry make you a Provo, or being a community worker from the Brandywell make you a member of the 'Provo Police'???

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Originally Posted by Krstic

In my book, quite possibly.

But more to the point, does working for a certain security firm in Derry make you a Provo, or being a community worker from the Brandywell make you a member of the 'Provo Police'???

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Not at all and nowhere have I said differently. However I think you are being unrealistic if you believe that there was no paramilitary input into the "security" for our game at the Brandywell.

Living in any working class area of Northern Ireland I would say it is pretty much impossible to never be associated with someone who has served a jail sentence as a result of the troubles. That does in no way make you guilty of anything. It is obvious (to me at least) what you are referring to and my dealings with this man have been all football related.

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Originally Posted by David

Not at all and nowhere have I said differently. However I think you are being unrealistic if you believe that there was no paramilitary input into the "security" for our game at the Brandywell.

Living in any working class area of Northern Ireland I would say it is pretty much impossible to never be associated with someone who has served a jail sentence as a result of the troubles. That does in no way make you guilty of anything. It is obvious (to me at least) what you are referring to and my dealings with this man have been all football related.

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David, being a hypocrite is one thing but being a blatant liar is another.

And I quote from ILF-Linfield section posted by you on 28/03/06 @ 11.37am.

"So we have to get bussed into your ground, have Paramilitaries protecting us"

Now you can say that about others but when questioned about your 'Football Buddy' you start crying and calling foul play.

Take your oil!!!

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Originally Posted by Krstic

David, being a hypocrite is one thing but being a blatant liar is another.

And I quote from ILF-Linfield section posted by you on 28/03/06 @ 11.37am.

"So we have to get bussed into your ground, have Paramilitaries protecting us"

Now you can say that about others but when questioned about your 'Football Buddy' you start crying and calling foul play.

Take your oil!!!

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So can you state categorically that there was no paramilitary involvement in the security operation around the Brandywell. Anyone that thinks that is simply being naive.

As for my "football buddy" as you call him, when you are forced to rely on the likes of him for protection when you come to Windsor you will then have cause for complaint but until then he is simply another spectator at a football match.

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Originally Posted by David

So can you state categorically that there was no paramilitary involvement in the security operation around the Brandywell. Anyone that thinks that is simply being naive.

As for my "football buddy" as you call him, when you are forced to rely on the likes of him for protection when you come to Windsor you will then have cause for complaint but until then he is simply another spectator at a football match.

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So now you're admitting that you lied in your previous post???

Whcih was:-
'Not at all nowhere have I said differently'

I've given you one example,there are more.

I think if you will continue to question the integrity of employees of a certain security company, then surely I can question you on being hypocritical because of your chosen "football buddy'.

If you cannot take it David, then refrain from giving it.

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Originally Posted by Krstic

So now you're admitting that you lied in your previous post???

Whcih was:-
'Not at all nowhere have I said differently'

I've given you one example,there are more.

I think if you will continue to question the integrity of employees of a certain security company, then surely I can question you on being hypocritical because of your chosen "football buddy'.

If you cannot take it David, then refrain from giving it.

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Take what and giving what. This was a thread about two guys allegedly being threatened and Derry City supporters use it to go on a rant about loyalist paramilitaries and racism and it had evidently nothing to do with either.

I maintain that I believe, as would any rational person, that there was paramilitary involvement in the security operation when we were at the Brandywell. Unlike you, I have not accused any individual of supporting or being involved in paramilitaries.

You level this accusation at me simply because I am seen in a photograph with a certain person at a football game. Whoop de do and big deal. I challenge anyone living in any working class area of Northern Ireland to say they have never been with someone who was involved with a paramilitary organisation yet you seem to want to use this as a stick to beat me with. I repeat, I only know this man through football.

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Originally Posted by David

Take what and giving what. This was a thread about two guys allegedly being threatened and Derry City supporters use it to go on a rant about loyalist paramilitaries and racism and it had evidently nothing to do with either.

I maintain that I believe, as would any rational person, that there was paramilitary involvement in the security operation when we were at the Brandywell. Unlike you, I have not accused any individual of supporting or being involved in paramilitaries.

You level this accusation at me simply because I am seen in a photograph with a certain person at a football game. Whoop de do and big deal. I challenge anyone living in any working class area of Northern Ireland to say they have never been with someone who was involved with a paramilitary organisation yet you seem to want to use this as a stick to beat me with. I repeat, I only know this man through football.

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Naw David, my problem is with your hypocrisy.

Republican terrorists you have a problem with, Loyalists you haven't.

I see no problem in your Football Buddy attending games anywhere, but you cried loudest about 'Provo policing' at the Brandywell, which I maintain is crap, yet you see no problem attending games with this guy.

Again I highlighted 'attending' as you stated above you were simply photographed with, you have admitted elswhere that you attended the game with him, it wasn't just a matter of being in the seat next to.

As for your statement :-

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Unlike you, I have not accused any individual of supporting or being involved in paramilitaries.

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Where have I accused you of this???

You have accused employees of a certain security firm of being Paramilitaries, which includes myself and my brother.
So don't talk crap David.

You were the one who was using any stick you could find to beat Derry City with, so stop your crying.

Again David, if you cannot take it, don't give it out.

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Originally Posted by Krstic

Naw David, my problem is with your hypocrisy.

Republican terrorists you have a problem with, Loyalists you haven't.

I see no problem in your Football Buddy attending games anywhere, but you cried loudest about 'Provo policing' at the Brandywell, which I maintain is crap, yet you see no problem attending games with this guy.

Again I highlighted 'attending' as you stated above you were simply photographed with, you have admitted elswhere that you attended the game with him, it wasn't just a matter of being in the seat next to.

As for your statement :-

Where have I accused you of this???

You have accused employees of a certain security firm of being Paramilitaries, which includes myself and my brother.
So don't talk crap David.

You were the one who was using any stick you could find to beat Derry City with, so stop your crying.

Again David, if you cannot take it, don't give it out.

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Can you not see the difference between attending a football game and being involved in security in the area. I repeat yet again that if this person was looking after your security at Windsor then you would have valid cause for complaint but as he was merely attending a football match then you don't. Where is the hypocrisy, it is two completely different scenarios. And yes by the way, I attended a football game with him. I travelled to Londonderry with him that night as he is in the same supporters club as him, nothing more sinister than that. I also repeat yet again that not everyone involved in the security had paramilitary connections no doubt but equally it is naive to think thatnone of them were linked to paramilitaries.

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Originally Posted by David

What do you want me to tell you? If someone was at a Derry City game with Martin McGuinness, does that make them a supporter of the IRA? This is going way off subject here but I do not like the implications towards me.

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I agree with David. People may despise Hutchinson but I'm sure Linfield fans weren't singing the praises of Martin Mc Guinness who was in the old stand. Total drama queen stuff from a few people.

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Originally Posted by David

I also repeat yet again that not everyone involved in the security had paramilitary connections no doubt but equally it is naive to think that none of them were linked to paramilitaries.

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Then by your own admission, you are also linked, if only by football.

So you're a hyporcite.

And I would also ask you to 'Put up or Shut up' as regards to the security at Derry v Linfield games, have you any proof of the Paramilitary connections???

Because David, a 'Picture paints a thousand words' and we've all seen the picture.

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Originally Posted by Speranza

I agree with David. People may despise Hutchinson but I'm sure Linfield fans weren't singing the praises of Martin Mc Guinness who was in the old stand. Total drama queen stuff from a few people.

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Speranza, I have no problem at all with anyone coming to a football match, in fact it tells it's own story that this man felt safe enough to come into the Brandywell.

My problem is David throwing mud at a local Securtiy firm, as mud sticks.
And everyone gets tarred with the same brush.

Also the fact that he has no problem in socialising with a Loyalist terrorist, who was sentenced to life for murdering 2 catholics, who said

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'I am sectarian, I am a bigot'

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a quote taken from the Newry Democrat in July 31 2002 from a speech at a christian renewal centre, yet David cries about 'Provo Policing' at the Brandywell with out proof.

I'd say he's a hypocrite.

Some girls are bigger than others, some girls are bigger than others, some girls mothers are bigger than other girls mothers......


apparently 2 players from a soccer club were forced to resign from their club cause of hoodlums! Unfortunatley I can't find a forum on foot.ie to discuss this!

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Originally Posted by Krstic

Speranza, I have no problem at all with anyone coming to a football match, in fact it tells it's own story that this man felt safe enough to come into the Brandywell.

My problem is David throwing mud at a local Securtiy firm, as mud sticks.
And everyone gets tarred with the same brush.

Also the fact that he has no problem in socialising with a Loyalist terrorist, who was sentenced to life for murdering 2 catholics, who said a quote taken from the Newry Democrat in July 31 2002 from a speech at a christian renewal centre, yet David cries about 'Provo Policing' at the Brandywell with out proof.

I'd say he's a hypocrite.

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If I was complaining about Martin McGuiness or anyone else with such links attending a football match then your point would be valid. As I am not then your point is invalid. I have no time for paramilitaries from either side, be they loyalist or republican and the fact that I attended a football game with a former loyalist paramilitary does not devalue that statement in any way. As I have already said, I know this man through football as he is in the same Linfield supporters club as me. Yes he has a past. What exactly that past contains I can honestly say that I do not know. There are many people in Northern Ireland with a past. Should we brand anyone that associates with them in any way as a sympathiser of terrorist organisations?

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Originally Posted by David

If I was complaining about Martin McGuiness or anyone else with such links attending a football match then your point would be valid. As I am not then your point is invalid. I have no time for paramilitaries from either side, be they loyalist or republican and the fact that I attended a football game with a former loyalist paramilitary does not devalue that statement in any way. As I have already said, I know this man through football as he is in the same Linfield supporters club as me. Yes he has a past. What exactly that past contains I can honestly say that I do not know. There are many people in Northern Ireland with a past. Should we brand anyone that associates with them in any way as a sympathiser of terrorist organisations?

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But David, I have no problem with your friend coming to the brandywell, as I've said it shows how times have changed that he felt confindent enough to be there.

And I am not branding you in any way, I just think you are a hypocrite.

And now you're a hypocrite for another reason, as you are the one who branded employees of a local security firm as paramilitaries, therefore branding me and my brother,

As i said David, mud sticks.

Hi David, I like the way you edited my post when quoting at 4.18pm.

What was that about???

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Whilst Republican groups are guilty of many things, they don't have a history of targetting immigrants.

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Really?:confused:

According to them they targeted the imperial foreign forces of oppression (ie. people like me) for over 30 years.

And sure aren't all of us planter types just immigrants anyway?

You're a silly boy.

Still smarting from your beloved's failure to get out of the group of death?;) :cool:

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Originally Posted by NOT BRAZIL

Really?:confused:

According to them they targeted the imperial foreign forces of oppression (ie. people like me) for over 30 years.

And sure aren't all of us planter types just immigrants anyway?

You're a silly boy.

Still smarting from your beloved's failure to get out of the group of death?;) :cool:

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You're well and truely sprawled on the ropes like a starfish and praying for the referee to count to 10 if that's the best you can come out with David.

The protestant community of Northern Ireland are as indigenous as the Catholic in my book. Feel free to disagree if you like - we all know it's just a feeble retort to get you through the proverbial round until the bell rings.

Ding, Ding !! I think you're going to have to call this one to a halt ref due to serious blood injury. Is there a medic on the site....? If not - your former paramilitary acquaintances could always shoot the ref for you anyway.

Seconds out....!

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

You're well and truely on the ropes and listening for the umpire's count if that's the best you can come out with David.

The protestant communtiy of Northern Ireland are as indigenous as the Catholic in my book. Feel free to disagree if you like - we all know it's just a feeble retort to get you through the proverbial round until the bell rings.

Ding, Ding !! I think you're going to have to call this one to a halt ref due to serious blood injury. Is there a medic on the site....?

Seconds out....

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:D :D :D

You're so punched drunk, you don't even know who you're in the ring with.

Mod edit : Refrain from name calling please Not Brazil.

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Originally Posted by Krstic

Hi David, I like the way you edited my post when quoting at 4.18pm.

What was that about???

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I never intentionally edited any post. Apologies if I did so by accident.

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Originally Posted by NOT BRAZIL

:D :D :D

You're so punched drunk, you don't even know who you're in the ring with.

Idiot.

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Brilliant

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Originally Posted by Krstic

But David, I have no problem with your friend coming to the brandywell, as I've said it shows how times have changed that he felt confindent enough to be there.

And I am not branding you in any way, I just think you are a hypocrite.

And now you're a hypocrite for another reason, as you are the one who branded employees of a local security firm as paramilitaries, therefore branding me and my brother,

As i said David, mud sticks.

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I did not brand any one person as a paramilitary. You at the very least implied that I was a supporter of loyalist paramilitaries. Was it only the security firm that were involved in security that night? If so it is a damn strange looking "security firm".

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Originally Posted by NOT BRAZIL

:D :D :D

You're so punched drunk, you don't even know who you're in the ring with.

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Mod edit : Refrain from name calling please dcfcsteve.


Not Brazil - if you really do believe what you wrote above about planters, then I'd rather not even be in the same town as you, let alone the same ring.

Now then - any danger you lot might put down your chips and get back to discussing football? ILF Forums is the place for discussing planters and the like....

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Just when you get used to dealing with one bigotted idiot, guess what - another clone pops up in his place....... !

Not Brazil - if you really do believe what you wrote above about planters, then I'd rather not even be in the same town as you, let alone the same ring.

Now then - any danger you lot might put down your chips and get back to discussing football? ILF Forums is the place for discussing planters and the like....

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Just like the Derry forum all over again. You have branded me a bigot. On what do you base this?

Seriously dcfcsteve, you either back up the statement that you just made or you remove the post.

The intolerance of some Derry City supporters is quite frankly sickening. They are so intolerant of other peoples views that anyone they disagree with if they are a Linfield supporter they simply brand them a bigot with no facts whatsoever to back up that statement. Who does that make the real bigots?

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Originally Posted by David

Just like the Derry forum all over again. You have branded me a bigot. On what do you base this?

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Your attitude, and comments. Your insistence, despite having zero evidence, that the security at the Brandywell was "Provo policing". A number of your own fans have even called you a bigot on the Derry site, ffs !.

The fact that you associate with a former convicted paramilitary doesn't exactly cover you in glory either. Is that why you are so adept at spotting supposed paramilitaries at 50 paces amongst the Derry security ?

Wind yer neck in David before that hole you've dug swallows you up entierly. Any danger you might get on to discussing football at some point ?

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Just when you get used to dealing with one bigotted idiot, guess what - another clone pops up in his place....... !

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I would suggest that you post up evidence of my bigotry fairly speedily, or a retraction of that insinuation.

Many Thanks.

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Originally Posted by David

Seriously dcfcsteve, you either back up the statement that you just made or you remove the post.

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Done above. Can't you wait 7mins for a response....? Some of us have other things to do with our lives rather than cling on your every word/command in cyberspace.....

Just to keep you posted on my movements - I'll be away from my PC for the the next few hours now. Don't be getting too upset if I don't respond back to you at the speed of light...

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Originally Posted by NOT BRAZIL

I would suggest that you post up evidence of my bigotry fairly speedily, or a retraction of that insinuation.

Many Thanks.

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Your rant about planters. Do you and David share libidos/logins or something....?