Why is Mick McCarthy now complaining about facilities in the new HQ in Seoul? Could it be that he has learned from his former captain and is finally getting the act together. Why isn't this 'whinging' or 'moaning'?
Too little too late?:confused:
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Why is Mick McCarthy now complaining about facilities in the new HQ in Seoul? Could it be that he has learned from his former captain and is finally getting the act together. Why isn't this 'whinging' or 'moaning'?
Too little too late?:confused:
Yawn:o
Grow up Steve. For a person who came on here a few days ago complaining about everyone in sight, you have certainly changed your tune.
Oh for gods sake! We're in the last 16 in the World Cup, we run the risk of being summarily booted home on Sunday, and this is all you can think of Steve?
adam
The problem is that I am worried about Ireland's prospects without a midfield. That is the central question about Sunday's match.Quote:
Changing tune
Everybody who knows the slightest jot about soccer knows that the midfield was missing totally against the Saudies, absent, not there. Yet, I'm supposed to grow up?? I cant believe this from a soccer forum.
The likes of Matt Holland (who I'd class as an extremely inneffectual midfielder with a good shot when its laid on perfectly) or Kinsella used to do well with Keane (the same way Babb used to do well with McGrath).
Spain will sweep Holland and Kinsella aside without noticing they were there.
That is exactly why Roy Keane should not have been kicked out (if its okay to mention him).
What has that got to do with the training facilities!Quote:
Originally posted by Steve
The problem is that I am worried about Ireland's prospects without a midfield. That is the central question about Sunday's match.
The problem is you have a bee in your bonnet and everyone else is wrong except you!
ie.
Quote:
I cant believe this from a soccer forum.
Did you not say in you original 'moan' that 'everyone is entitled to their opinion?Quote:
Everybody who knows the slightest jot about soccer
Support Ireland in the World Cup and leave your grievances for another day.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Casegrande
[B]
What has that got to do with the training facilities!
This.
The whole Keane saga is like a thorn in the foot of the world cup effort. I get annoyed with the apparent cosy concensus that doesn't allow any comparison. Many Keane-bashers said he was a whinger etc., to get on with the World Cup etc and stop complaning. McCarthy then goes ahead and its okay when a week before this cosy concensus was happy to beat Keane with this 'grow up', 'be happy' stuff, forget the facilities etc.
I suppose its obvious that Keane will be the most missed person in Ireland on SUnday. Thats what worries me.
On a positive note. We still have Duff, Given, Keane, Finnan, they'll have to have stormers on the day and I hope they do. I'll say no more.
Best Wishes to Ireland on Sunday!
The reason Mick is complaining about the facilities now is that they have a very important game coming up in a few days. The training facilities in Saipan was bad but in reality Saipan was meant to be relaxing time for the lads and to climitise to the hot conditions. Saipan was never going to be an excellent training facility, Japan and Korea was to be top class. As we know Japan was top class and Korea isn't, thats why Mick is moaning.
Keane had a total different argument, his main point was that they shouldn't have been relaxing but doing hard training in Saipan!
All the matches were important. We could have finished top of that group and avoided Spain at this stage. Mind you I thought South Africa were good(?).Quote:
Originally posted by citylove
Keane had a total different argument, his main point was that they shouldn't have been relaxing but doing hard training in Saipan! [/B]
Anyway, I'm trying to do what I'm told and move on from the Keane issues. Not so sure about the 'Gary Gary Breen' ones though?
The Saudi game bears no resemblence to Spain. Against Spain, the midfield will mostly have to disrupt the opposition whereas they were expected to create against Saudi. The Spanish game will show our midfield in a much better light than the Saudi game.Quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Everybody who knows the slightest jot about soccer knows that the midfield was missing totally against the Saudies, absent, not there.
Isn't this a contradiction?;)Quote:
Originally posted by Schumi
The Saudi game bears no resemblence to Spain. Against Spain, the midfield will mostly have to disrupt the opposition whereas they were expected to create against Saudi. The Spanish game will show our midfield in a much better light than the Saudi game.
A "good" midfield should be creative and combatative.
Kinsella and Holland are very good at what they do, but that in itself is our limitation.
They are essentially destructive players and are found out when creativity is needed.
Our central midfield is a choice of 2 from Kinsella, Holland or Carsley. I'm not being dismissive of them, but I cannot see any team winning a major championship with that choice.
I am not trying to resurrect any arguments, but from a purely football viewpoint it is undeniable that Roy Keane will be really missed now. :(
But what the hell,so far there has been far bigger shocks in this tournament that Ireland beating Spain (if you could really call that a shock!), so C'MON THE LADS!....:)
The Other Keane is hardly a 'creative' midfielder. Leave it out willya. 'Steve' is just trying to stir ye.
We've always struggled to look good against $hit teams. It's not just now.Quote:
Originally posted by Neil
The Other Keane is hardly a 'creative' midfielder. Leave it out willya. 'Steve' is just trying to stir ye.
It's not entirely true that I'm trying to stir anyone (a little maybe) but my intentions were good. I'm leaving out the obvious this time.Quote:
Originally posted by Neil
The Other Keane is hardly a 'creative' midfielder. Leave it out willya. 'Steve' is just trying to stir ye.
I like Kinsella but I think that his day might be gone. I dont like Holland for various reasons but I'll keep that back as well. I think he is a very tame midfielder (he does try hard) but the unmentionable made him look better than he is.
Comparing games is not exactly true I think. The Saudies were poor and there was no sign of any midfield creative or combative (the plan seemed to be to have Staunton give long balls from the defense). Against Spain I think this might (I hope not) be even more obvious. I can see waves of Spanish attacks flooding the midfield area without any resistance.
Its so bad that I would prefer Carsley - I think he has more bite in tackles than the other two. If someone wants to tell me what Kinsella + Holland's contribution was, please do - and I'm serious, because I cant see it (and the media have gone way over the top with the praise).
Since when were Irealnd ever going to win the Woirld Cup? The team obviously go out to win every game but winning the whole competition? :rolleyes:Quote:
I cannot see any team winning a major championship with that choice.
You have to laugh at suggestions (not on this forum thankfully) that Roy Keane be flown back to Korea & put into the team & all be fine.
Roy Keane is/was our best player & irreplacable but he is not a creative midfielder. Its always easier to destroy than create.
Lets just get behind the team for the next game - pity people can't leave the Keane affair go.
:(
btw McCarthy meerly changed the facilities as not happy with ones he given by FIFA. He also did not complain to FIFA as some sources are suggesting.
Sorry Pete, I didn't realise that we entered tournaments just to take part, so the answer is obviously never.Quote:
Originally posted by pete
Since when were Irealnd ever going to win the Woirld Cup? The team obviously go out to win every game but winning the whole competition? :rolleyes:
I was always under the impression that we went to try and win.
Isn't it time we started thinking about winning, no matter how unlikely.........:eek:
Bit of difference between thinking about & expecting yourself to win. Look where they got Portugal, France, Argentina & Cameroon!Quote:
Originally posted by oddboy
Isn't it time we started thinking about winning, no matter how unlikely.........:eek:
The FAI have falied to realise the WC isn't the only reason for them existing but meerly a means by which they can boost the other levels of football under their control.
I recall a certain 'forgotten about' midfielder trying to rubbish all this 'ah we're Irish, its all a laugh to us' attitude. That is complete nonsense. How could any player go on any field thinking that he (or she) is not going to win, doesn't want to win or was never really going to win anyway. How could any team in the last 16 of the world go on the field thinking that?? They are only three games away from it for Gods sake. Korea certainly ditn't think like that.Quote:
Originally posted by oddboy
Isn't it time we started thinking about winning, no matter how unlikely.........:eek:
I was trying to sort out my Keane issues but Keane may not be 'creative' in the Figo way but where are Portugal now?? Where are France? Where are Argentina? Keane is more useful than those 'silky' skilled players. Creative means more than the 'bend it like Beckam' brigade.
Kinsella and Holland are neither creative nor 'destructive'? They are meek.
They certainly are not 'meek'. They definitley are 'loyal' and 'proud'.Quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Kinsella and Holland are neither creative nor 'destructive'? They are meek.
Neil, they may well be loyal and proud (if you overlook Holland's 'my dream is to play for England') and I think they are and that they do their best. I also pray that that will be good enough on Sunday to put Spain out.Quote:
Originally posted by Neil
They certainly are not 'meek'. They definitley are 'loyal' and 'proud'.
Apart from the WC at all or any of the Keane type issues I think there are questions about their quality. In spite of all the press hype I cant see that they have, in fact, looked all that strong creatively or defensively.
Hope I am wrong and that I get indigestion eating my words. No-one has yet tried to outline their qualities?
Holland's goal against Cameroon... for example.Quote:
Originally posted by Steve
No-one has yet tried to outline their qualities?
Are you for real?
Originally posted by pete
Bit of difference between thinking about & expecting yourself to win. Look where they got Portugal, France, Argentina & Cameroon!
I do not think that we should go to tournaments expecting to win them, but we should go to tournaments trying to win them.
Surely we need to have a better attitude than that we are simply going to take part and enjoy it.
The FAI have falied to realise the WC isn't the only reason for them existing but meerly a means by which they can boost the other levels of football under their control.
Down the years, the FAI have failed to realise anything.
I personally think it should be split into 2 sections.
The control of the national teams should go to full-time people and include all managers and coaches (i.e McCarthy and Evans, Don Givens, Kerr etc) plus a few "admin" people (i.e a travel and logistics person and that type) should become responsible for all international teams going from under-14 up to senior. Also have the FIFA/Uefa rep and a competitions secratary in this group.
The eL and all the rest to be looked after by a totally different group of people, with no mixing between one or the other.
Then maybe Menton and Byrne on top of this looking after finance and overmanagment of both groups.
If real changes are not made after the whole mess in Saipan, the eL, for starters, is going to go down the drain. Anybody with even half a brain and who never took a lot of interest in soccer now thinks the FAI is a shambles. This ruins any chance of the eL getting bigger and better and attracting new followers
It was a beautiful goal and he did it before - exactly the same strike - perfectly executed but I hope he has more than one trick up his sleeve?Quote:
Originally posted by Neil
Holland's goal against Cameroon... for example.
Are you for real?
Surely there are other examples?His passing, tackling are poor and he gets lost for long periods of games for example??
I don't think anyone could fail but to be proud of the current squad no matter what happens on sunday.
2nd half versus Cameroon in the afternnon heat (big difference in conditions between afternoon & evening games) was surely one of the best seen by an irish team for a long tiem & i'm not forgetting Holland in Lansdowne.
I do not know if any of the Charlton team would have put 3 or even 2 goals past even that poor Saudi team. Remember the horrors of Egypt in 1990? :eek:
btw since the FAI so quick to announce an independent audit of the whole preparations/keane saga why can't we have the same for the current eircom League saga?
The team have done brilliantly - amazingly. Good luck to them.
(Still analysis does not go out the window????)
dead right steve, agree with ya.. just cause they have done so well and gotten out of what seemed going into it was a tough group doesnt mean we should walk around with blinkers on like bill oki doki o hurlihy.. there are still problems and weakness's in abundance.. lets not kid ourselves here
given - class keeper
finnan - class
other back 3 dodgy as hell and i wouldnt trust them esp harte..
midfield disapears all too frequantly although the spain game might help them as its alot easier to be disruptive which is something they are going to have to do..
duff & robbie keane .. class and will cause trouble..
The Des Cahill School of Analysis seems to be spreading. Glad to see some reason entering the discussion. To analysise the team (here? and in the media seems to be taken up as a proKeane stance?)Quote:
Originally posted by James
just cause they have done so well and gotten out of what seemed going into it was a tough group doesnt mean we should walk around with blinkers on like bill oki doki o hurlihy..
duff & robbie keane .. class and will cause trouble..
If Keane never existed I'd still ask the questions. I'e heard some people talking off drawing with Spain and going to penalties. They'll have to attack early to try and demoralise and scare the Spannish - and this will be down to Duff and Keane (eile).
Holland could easily contribute a lot more by working on his attacking game (and defending). If the midfield bottle it again its time to go!
We have a team of players who give it their all and play their heart out for Ireland (and that includes Matt Holland and any other player who happened to be born in England).
IMO, the only players who are close to being World class are Robbie Keane, Duffer, Given and Finnan.
Gary Breen has really surprised me with his performances, as has Stan.
Forget about *** and get behind the 22 lads who are out there giving their all for Ireland.
I've got ireland at 5/1 to win in 90mins. Apparently can get up to 11/2 on us elsewhere!
I have no doubt the irish players be doing all they can to get through. A 0-0 draw at HT be fine & hopefully old spanish doubts be emerging again......
Me may have the makings of a very good team at euro 2004 if current form players can continue & new younger players on the sidelines come good on their promise.....
I think if we could descover a decent right midfielder & put Duff on the left we could play a similar formation to Denmark - central midfield toughies & pacey wingers.
As well as RK we may probably won't see Staunton, Quinn or McAteer play international football again.
Yeah, a lot of the current crop will be in their prime and with the likes of Colin Healy and John O'Shea emerging things bode well for the future.Quote:
Originally posted by pete
we may have the makings of a very good team at euro 2004 if current form players can continue & new younger players on the sidelines come good on their promise....
Quote:
Originally posted by COLM
Yeah, a lot of the current crop will be in their prime and with the likes of Colin Healy and John O'Shea emerging things bode well for the future.
Forget that playing for a draw nonsense! It will not be possible with the quality the Spanish have. This is a knock out match for heavens sake, the loser goes home. An early goal against them would put the frighteners on them. All out attack is the only job, hit them hard and fast and they'll wilt. In fairness to McCarthy I think he will.
Dont forget Steve Carr? With Finnan ahead of him? I'd like to have seen more of Reid at the WC, he can score, has skill and is no shrinking voilet either (and Morrison). Competitions like this can be watersheds for teams and I think four or five new squad members could be in order.
Paraguay got an early goal against Spain and Spain went on to win 3-1. Also, we seem to thrive on scoring goals in the latter part of matches- Germany, Cameroon, Holland etc.Quote:
Originally posted by Steve
An early goal against them would put the frighteners on them. All out attack is the only job, hit them hard and fast and they'll wilt.
Yup probably still a slight weakness with this irish team - hanging onto a lead.Quote:
Originally posted by COLM
Paraguay got an early goal against Spain and Spain went on to win 3-1. Also, we seem to thrive on scoring goals in the latter part of matches- Germany, Cameroon, Holland etc.
You might be right there. Still, in a crunch do-or-die match like this, a lot is a stake and the nerves of the Irish team were visible the last match which is a worry. Attack might resolve this as Spain are a team with great expectations (and great players) but the way the tournament is going they will be nervous themselves? If Spain are allowed to come on they will score, and score a lot. Our midfield must impose themselves more than they have done up to now or its curtains(?).Quote:
Originally posted by pete
Yup probably still a slight weakness with this irish team - hanging onto a lead.
Yup, that's how we beat Holland. The first 3 minutes aside, we showed them no respect and went at them. They were under a lot of pressure to win, and weren't used to being pressured like we pressured them.
Spain managed to get three back against Paraguay because Praguay were content to sit on their 1-0 lead.