eL "relaunch" - Questions for those in favour

I'll try to pose this as dispassionately as possible, lest accusations of bias (which, in all fairness, would not be entirely illegitimate) arise.

If 2007 is to be designated Year Zero, with the composition of the league determined by the FAI in accordance with their own subjective criteria - what happens if the "wrong" teams suffer relegation again? Do we simply keep playing the 2007 season ad infinitum or until we get it right, a la the Nice referendum?

And if relegation is not to be abolished entirely, what's going to make the 2007 season (even if the Premier is contested among the "right" clubs) so different from previous abortive league "relaunches?" Proper marketing? Improved media coverage? Does anyone seriously believe that the FAI is shrewd or even motivated enough ever to commit sufficient resources to a league revitalisation project, let alone to do so in one year, at the first attempt?

To the most obvious beneficiaries of this putative restructuring, I wish to pose an additional question. While I understand the imperatives which compelled you to support this motion (the pressures of funding an eircom League club on a week-to-week basis are such that any avenue of relief must be considered), you must realise the consequences of your actions. What you have done, effectively, is establish a precedent whereby no club (save a handful) can safely plan or budget for the future without the constant threat of arbitrary expulsion looming over them.

You may benefit today, but woe betide those whose conception of viability conflicts in the future with that of the FAI. And when domestic football on this island eventually assumes a cross-border dimension, the fate to which you heedlessly condemned others today shall in turn be visited upon you (and if "security" replaces "marketability" as the fatuous-rubberstamp-du-jour, "you" could well encompass Derry City and Shamrock Rovers too.)

O brave new world.

Fantastic post.

Sounds like their may be a chink of light at the end of this particular tunnel though. Fingers crossed.

can we wait and see what is actually being proposed before we go off on these flights of fancy?

i support the re-launch in broad terms. teams who arent tax compliant and run as per the licencing laws should, and will, be punished.

if, and i repeat if, there is a component that is subjective, like geography and potential fans, i will oppose it. but it will take more than a few UCD and CHF fans shouting about it to make it so.

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Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

can we wait and see what is actually being proposed before we go off on these flights of fancy?
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You should have told your club and the other 17 that before they chose

"The box John, I'm gonna gamble and take the box":)

so we are nearly all wrong? and you of course, know for a fact that Rovers voted in favour?

perhaps 81% of delegates simply know something you dont?

this is veering into the clinically paranoid.

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

And if relegation is not to be abolished entirely, what's going to make the 2007 season (even if the Premier is contested among the "right" clubs) so different from previous abortive league "relaunches?" Proper marketing? Improved media coverage? Does anyone seriously believe that the FAI is shrewd or even motivated enough ever to commit sufficient resources to a league revitalisation project, let alone to do so in one year, at the first attempt?

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That's essentially what I've been thinking. It's more of a shifting deck chairs on the Titanic than anything from what we've been told. Roverstillidie, you know what? The misinformation or lack of information is not my fault. I can only assume the worst and work from that. It does not sound like it bodes well for my club and until I see information to the contrary I will speak against this.

Rovers did vote in favour, as did the vast majority of clubs. It is understandable that people like Sheridan and Maynard are upset because, let's call a spade a spade here, the coffin lid on "Dublin City" is almost closed.

As regards your initial questions, I'd imagine the answers are:

1. Relegation will resume as normal, as will promotion. The "wrong clubs" might not be allowed to get promoted though, as is the case with the non-league clubs in England. Ultimately, I don't know.

2. Fairly sick of Irish football trying different gimicks to 'relaunch' itself. Licencing should have been the end of it but clearly that's not being implemented. The FAI have shown that they can increase prize money, I'd presume they will link this with bigger sponsorship. The 'chosen' clubs will, I'd imagine, be given a fair wad of cash to sort their s*it out, as happened when the English Premiership was launched.

3. You didn't really pose any question in your last two paragraphs, you just went off on a Shakespearean rant ("woe betide"? Are you kidding me?). There's lots of doomsday scenarios we could all dream up but, frankly, what's the point?

This could all come back to haunt us but I'm going to go with my gut instinct and say that anything that ****es "Dublin City" off this much has to be good for the league.

Passive, apart from your joy that it upsets Dublin City, why are you so happy to jump into bed with one of the most incompetant organisations in Ireland? they don't even know when fixtures were on to send Refs. Sorry I think this will fail as has every other relaunch and then the FAI will say we tried we failed bye. Only time will tell, but by then the damage may have been done.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

That's essentially what I've been thinking. It's more of a shifting deck chairs on the Titanic than anything from what we've been told. Roverstillidie, you know what? The misinformation or lack of information is not my fault. I can only assume the worst and work from that. It does not sound like it bodes well for my club and until I see information to the contrary I will speak against this.

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so you are scaremongering?

you dont know that any of your prophecies are in fact true or based in any reality?

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Originally Posted by Passive

3. You didn't really pose any question in your last two paragraphs, you just went off on a Shakespearean rant ("woe betide"? Are you kidding me?). There's lots of doomsday scenarios we could all dream up but, frankly, what's the point?

This could all come back to haunt us but I'm going to go with my gut instinct and say that anything that ****es "Dublin City" off this much has to be good for the league.

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The questions, for those with the mental dexterity to apprehend them, were implicit in the text.

The prudent observer is now, of course, questioning why these insistent appeals for circumspection are emanating from the masters of hyperbole themselves. Why the stalling manoeuvre? What do they have to gain? Why did their representative vote in favour of a vision for the future (supposedly sight unseen) unless they've been encouraged to feel secure about their integral position in that vision?

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Originally Posted by BohsFan

Oohhhh listen to him!

Am I the only one getting a little it tired of listening to Rovers fans bleat on about tax compliance and licensing laws.? Funnily enough this brand new enthusiasm seems to have taken hold not one second before Rovers had their creditors pay their massive debts for them and the Government swallow the fact that their very generous grants to Rovers for ground building went instead to squad building.

Let's all the ready for" "that was the old board, meet the new board".

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My reaction too. But just like nobody hates smoking more than a former smoker, maybe nobody hates tax dodging and lying more than a former tax dodger and liar.

And how can geography be subjective? Or do Dubs think we make up places outside the pale? :)

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Originally Posted by LFC in Exile

My reaction too. But just like nobody hates smoking more than a former smoker, maybe nobody hates tax dodging and lying more than a former tax dodger and liar.

And how can geography be subjective? Or do Dubs think we make up places outside the pale? :)

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People's opinion of what makes up a geographical spread is subjective. What does it mean? Or a basis of population or of sheer kilometers covered? Also, that's bizarre non-sporting criteria in general.

The geographical and even the facilities arguements as a basis for running a Division do not hold water.
It is not so long ago that Limerick were playing to 50-75 people at home. Had the restructuring been taking place two years ago, Limerick would be excluded from consideration on basis of no support.
In 1996 this was Longford Town which shows the potential improvement that can happen. Athlone are building a new stadium as are Drogheda United. But Athlone will soon have a better ground than Drogheda.
Does that mean that Drogheda should play in the First Division, instead of Athlone, until they move out of their current 300 seat United Park? Of course not that would be a load of cobblers!

A lot of the arguements being floated here have to do with getting rid of Dublin clubs. Well the only Dublin club that has come to close to getting rid of itself was Rovers under their previous board. The other clubs are reasonably well run. The getting rid of Dublin clubs concept from the Premier has become a mantra for some rustic EL fans. The Dublin clubs are there on merit. They got in because on the field their teams are better than Cobh, better than Galway, Better than Dundalk etc. Sorry folks but these are facts.

How many times do people in this country have to get the message?
Dublin has 1/3 of the population of the Republic of Ireland. Greater Dublin Clubs 7/22 ...just under 1/3 of the EL clubs. What's wrong with proportionality?

Sheridan, I would say that an acknowledgement that the current situation of costs v revenue is unsustainable, rather than flat out confidence in the hands of the FAI is the main reason for the vote for the FAI.

Whilst playing standards have increased strongly over the last 5 or so years (along with wages), revenues and crowds have not kept pace.

Even the best run EL clubs are glorified charities that live hand to mouth. This is unsustainable in the long-run.

So when somebody comes along dangling some cash and very loosely defined "support", and promising to impose standards that were supposed to be put in place two years ago, given the alternative would appear to be stagnation, most clubs have taken the leap of faith.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

So when somebody comes along dangling some cash and very loosely defined "support", and promising to impose standards that were supposed to be put in place two years ago, given the alternative would appear to be stagnation, most clubs have taken the leap of faith.

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And this is exactly the problem. Every couple of seasons we are presented with these "leaps of faith" - 4 points for an away win/top6-bottom6/12 team Premier/10 team Premier/Summer Soccer/12 team Premier/10 team Premier/Single 22-team division/John Delaney's eL Prim-Éire Liga/Extra-time multiball/etc. At no time have these proposals been anything other than "leaps of faith" because no-one can be arsed undertaking the necessary research to see what would actually work and no-one can be arsed to pay for a coherent marketing strategy to attempt to attract the vast untapped audience in this country. Never mind the actual enforcing of UEFA Licensing which was supposed to ensure that all clubs are run correctly without the need to arbitrarily invite all the nice, popular clubs to the swanky new FAI party.

More often than not the clubs are lazy and go along with these proposed quick fixes because of this very attitude that "Ah sure it couldn't be worse than what we have now" and conmen like Genesis coming along and pronouncing "The Sky is Falling! The eircom League is Dying!". This means it falls to the supporters to put their hands up and say "Hang on - let's take a closer look at this" before we get railroaded into another experimental system by the least trustworthy sporting organisation in Ireland. I'd rather the supporters be accused of "scaremongering" than just sitting back and assuming that the 18 clubs have voted out of the best interests of the league rather than their own self-interest.:rolleyes:

Bother me, why not play a 22 team league in 2007, the top 10 go into the eircom i-League 1 and the the bottom 12 go into eircom i-League 2 for season 2008? Who's with me?

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Originally Posted by rerun

Bother me, why not play a 22 team league in 2007, the top 10 go into the eircom i-League 1 and the the bottom 12 go into eircom i-League 2 for season 2008? Who's with me?

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Couldn't see them going for it, but it certainly makes more sense then relegating teams that shouldn't be relegated, promoting teams that shouldn't be promoted and denying teams that should be promoted. If they put a 22 team league to a vote for 2007 and it passed I personally wouldn't object.

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Originally Posted by rerun

Bother me, why not play a 22 team league in 2007, the top 10 go into the eircom i-League 1 and the the bottom 12 go into eircom i-League 2 for season 2008? Who's with me?

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That's about the best idea so far

Rerun why are you not running the FAI.....only fair and proper way to do things.

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Originally Posted by Magicme

Rerun why are you not running the FAI.....only fair and proper way to do things.

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:) Cheers! I thought it was a good idea, obviously thats why I don't work for the FAI!

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Originally Posted by rerun

:) Cheers! I thought it was a good idea, obviously thats why I don't work for the FAI!

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rerun
Well done on your suggestion but Pat Devlin proposed a 22 team league several seasons ago so it's hardly a new idea.

Bottom line as far as I'm concerned is that there is only one criteria that can be used to determine the standing of teams in any league, and that's performance on the pitch. Anything else is focking with the basis of the sport, and half way to killing the game. If football ever ceases to be about what happens on the field then what is the point in playing and watching matches ? Now this is not to say that there shouldn't be sanctions available for off the field misconduct, but to try and structure a league based on some vauge notion of "potential" or "marketability" is nonsense. If clubs have potential, it's up to them to fulfill it. Personally speaking I'd rather Galway, Limerick, or Athlone in the premier league than Dub City or UCD, because in my opinion(and it's only an opinion before anyone jumps down my throat) those two clubs are not going to progress much further than they have up to now. However, they got where they are on merit, and until someone earns the right to replace them they should remain where they are. My own idea of revamping the league would actually be to extend the Premier Division to sixteen teams. That's got more chance of reviving the game in some of the towns I've mentioned above, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

rerun
Well done on your suggestion but Pat Devlin proposed a 22 team league several seasons ago so it's hardly a new idea.

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I wouldn't propose a 22 team league to continue after one season, just let it decide what teams are in the 1st/2nd division split.