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Surprised no ones brought this up yet (possibly because it will result in a flame war that will consume us all!) but just wondering what peoples opinion on the orange order marching in Dublin next month is??
Personally I'm not sure whether I belong to the "Holy Mother of God, orangemen outside the Gpo" school of thought or the "Let them off to show themselves up as the bigots they are" school of thought..
(Mods, feel free to delete if innappropriate)
Just to be clear I don't think this is an official Orange event in any way though there will probably be some Orangemen involved.
I think this is being organised by William Frazers rather tragic LoveUlster "movement" ... a political agitative body with about as much clout, vision and grounding in real politik as Republican Sinn Fein (O Brádaighs tiny band of waifs, strays, handlebar tached nutters and bitter auld cnuts).
The purpose of this march is unclear ...perhaps to show that they can march through the capital of the evil expansionist Republic with impugnity (..and I sincerly hope their march passes off without incident) while their "culture" is harrassed and hounded back up the road in "their own wee country".
I hope their isn't a more sinister motive at play here though i.e. baiting southern barstool republican numptys off their barstools to come out and hurl abuse and anything else to hand so the can show to the world how "persecuted" they are.
Just ignore them and they'll get bored of it ...just like they did with their "long march".
Nothing should ever allow them to march anywhere near that memorial or the GPO. I'm a long way from the "Tiocfaidh Ar La-Free the North" attitude I once held (early teens ;) ) but this digusts me it really does. Just like if the held an IRA march through Hyde Park, Brighton, Birmingham etc.
If the government allows this they might as well allow loyalists to come to Glasnevian and urinate over the graves. Disgrace.
Not sure if thats a fair comparison though I mean the orange order didn't plant those bombs.Quote:
Originally Posted by liam88
And as we have seen in the past our own government is more than capable of urinating on our history.
Don't get me wrong I'm starting to lean more and more towards outrage being honest (Must be my youthful teenage ways :) ) but Lionel Richie makes a pretty good argument.
BTW heard that Willie Frasier chap on Joe Duffy :o Pretty much came across as your average, foaming at the mouth, ignorant, loyalist stereotype
Again like Liam I'm not a big republican head but I do think this march is a disgrace. They're going to be marching down a street which is going to be forever linked with Republicanism and being Irish. Maybe if they decided to march away from O Connel St for their cause but I really think they're use of O Connel St is wrong.
Also is it true that the Gardai have said that they can't guarantee the marchers safety? Just something I think I heard when I was home over Christmas ...
When all is said and done, it's just people walking down a road.
Ignore it if you don't approve.
I can't see how they could guarentee their safety tbh. I know of a few relatives who'll be ripping up paving stones if it goes ahead :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by aido_b
Think theirs a potential disaster for Ireland here, all because Bertie and his ilk, by allowing this march have once again (shock, horror) misread the feelings of the Irish people
when it comes to public assembly in our capital the Gardai couldn't guarantee you a bluster in all of March.Quote:
Originally Posted by aido_b
If you're opposed in your outlook to the views of these people as I'm guessing the majority on here would be to varying degree -the best way to frustrate them is to treat them with utmost indifference. In any adversarial situation you ask yourself "what is it my counterpart would like me to do? What could I do that could be of best advantage to him?"
which leads me to....
Liam if you've a sharp stinging pain in your jaw right now... well that's a hook. ...and that thing you're gagging on ...? That's bait Liam;) :D :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam88
Anybody know what date it is on?
I have removed the quote marks as you have referenced that "quote". Please add reference or explain...Quote:
Originally Posted by liam88
:confused: That's a bit low removing the quote marks-you could have jsut said-"please reference the quote Liam" rather that point scoring by implying I condone the murder of Twenty Seven (though I'm sure the orange order would say 26) innocent people in any way.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Referance:
http://www.dublinmonaghanbombings.org/may74.html
To the best of my knowledge Smyth was/is an orangeman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justice for the Forgotten
Seriously the whole idea is just ott political correctness-as aido said the use of O'Connell Street is a disgrace especially. Maybe many in the Republic want want to distance themselves from Republicanism because of the Troubles and that is their choice but this is a step to far. The Orange Order was set up as an anti-Caahtolic organisation and has remained so to this day.
REFERANCE-WIKIPEDIA ORANGE ORDER
O'Connell was a champion of the Catholic IrirshQuote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
REFERENCE-WIKPEDIA DANILE O'CONNELL
It's a disgrace and I hope it never happens. If it does I hope it is disrupted and goes badly for the orange order.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The only reason they want to do this is to get a reaction from barstool republicians,if nobody reacts,then the march was pointless
Liam, on what do you base this assertion?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by liam88
Probably the same as you base your political assertions on-what you've read/learnt. I'm pretty sure he was but on the off chance that he wasn't i've removed the quote. Doesn't change my views though and I can't find a profile to confirm that he was. Having said that he was speaking on behalf of the UDA and (agian from what i've read) wern't the majority of UDA members in 1974 Orangemen?Quote:
Originally Posted by REVIP
Ok technically I can't base my quote on that reflecting the view of the orange order and for that reason i've delted the quote-now Pete can you delete your manipulated quotation of me because it's offensive.
Maybe im being naive but if they do march,i cant see as big a deal being made of it as thought
We live in a Republic; Liberty, Equality, Fraternity. You can't call yourself a republican if you don't hold up these values.
The Orangemen have as much of a right to march down that road as anyone else.
I'm an English Prod who lived in the North for sixteen years.
As I understand the demographic trends in Northern Ireland, the Nationalist community is likely to constitute a majority in the next two decades. I assume there will then be a referendum to formally constitute a 32 County Republic.
Dublin will then be the capital city for all communities, including the Orangemen, who will persist for a while as a religious organisation. What would then be the attitude towards Orange marches? Would they be barred from their own capital?
If I wanted to really get up the noses of the Loyalists who may come, I would suggest that their visit is an anticipation of the days when Dublin will be their capital; I would give them lists of bars where their Northern Ireland banknotes were welcome and details of where they can see football on a big screen.
There's some line in the Bible about pouring coals of fire on someone's head by being nice to them ;)
:D Fair play! As I said I got out of the Republican stuff a long time ago. I'm still proud of my Irishness and I sing the odd rheb and have the odd "Republican moment" but when I started reading the history and all about the darker side of the Republican movement I think all the republican ideal stuff went out the window.Quote:
Originally Posted by REVIP
On a side note did anyone see that there's not going to be a Bloody SUnday Commemeration in London this year as the protest against Guaentanemo bay falls on the same day so the Bloody Sunday Organisers are sending their delgation to that :rolleyes:
Exactly the same right as people have the right to protest over it - theyre just doing it to get a reaction out of people and I'm sure they will. I'l be there on the day anyway if I canQuote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
Just wondering as to why Orangemen have as much of a right as anyone else to march down O Connell St? I don't mean that in an argumentative way, I'm just wondering as to why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
Equality means that everyone is treated the same, wheather they're orangemen or not. A lot of cultural and political organisations have marched in O'Connell Street, Orangemen should be treated no differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by aido_b
I think the worst thing we could do is to take this seriously. In fact I think we should make our fellow countrymen;) most welcome. I suggest we even provide tea and biscuits for them. Anyone got any jaffa cakes ?:D
I Googled 'loyalist march dublin' - wasn't too happy at seeing some of the stuff that came up :(
We moved down here to get away from those nutters and to give our kids a future in an environment where there was a chance of mutual respect.
Lot of the moderate Prods in the North have left (to come and live in places like south Co Dublin;) ) or have opted out of any involvement in political activity.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anto McC
These sort of people love spreading the myth that the Republic is an evil popish state where protestants are driving from their homes by Arch-Bishops and balaclavad men with rosary beads. If they come and go andc no-one gives a feck, they'll actually be disappointed.
I hope this march happens and proves to be the non-event it deserves to be. It'll be another myth about the 'evil Republic' quashed, one less reason against an all-island state, and yet another step closer to peaceful coexistence on this island. Here's hoping the armchair Republicans don't feck it up by travelling miles to be offended...
:D I typed the same thing into google(.com) and the first link was an advert to the march on a "White PRide World WIde" forum..........don't think the white pride lads on that march are to concerned about mutual respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by REVIP
....or do racists have as much right as anyone to march down O'Connell Street??
Pete-I haev removed the "Quote Liam 88 bit" because I've retracted that quote (on a technically). Remove yours an I'll remove mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Donegal hosts Orange marches every year and they pass off without any hassle and bring in much needed revenue.I have a feeling though this could be hijacked by some sinister elements out to prove it is impossible for Unionists to express themselves in the Republic.However the biggest cretins on view will be the Republican protestors who will be too thick to realise that they will be playing into the hands of "told you so" Loyalists.
Yeah, bang on the button, and as Lionel Richie said, "Ignore them".Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
I can't think of a funnier thing than people here going about their business, shopping, going to the movies to matches etc while those dinosaurs plod their way down the street looking like the irrelevant relics from another era that they are.:)
I'd love, too, for RTE and TV3 news to plonk the item in their end of news "country round-up" mickey mouse news section at the end of each bulletin just to rub home the irrelevance of it all.
Maybe if they get the message that we in the Republic just don't give a fcuk and that we've "moved on". they might just feel very foolish and out of touch.
I've often felt that the people in the Garvaghy Estate should have let the Orange marchers traipse down that road while, at the same time, have a huge big Irish festival in the estate with ceilidh music,very loud rock bands and a massive big party with bunting and so on and.....ignore them.:D I can't think of a bigger put down to the Orangies than a "We don't give a
sh!te about ye" attitude.
Then again, I live down here and it's easy for me to say that.
Maybe I'm out of touch about that but like an immature, spoilt brat, it's attention the Orange Order craves. Leave 'em in a vacuum I say and eventually they'll wither and die off without the oxygen of publicity.
Ditto those Republican barstoolers.
Again i totally agree with you Steve but with regards to the bit i've highlighted,i dont think armchair republicans will have to travel miles to it,I am a 5 min walk from O'Connell St and unfortunetly,there are plenty of armchair republicans around here alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
You know these people who cheer loudest for Celt*c when they are playing Rangers and then ask you to switch over to watch their other team Man u/Liverpool/Chelsea play after,the same people who if you asked them when did Ireland get its independence,will say Easter Monday 1916.These people cant spell History let alone know anything about it and unfortunetly it will be these people,if any,that will give the Orangemen the chance to say told you so!
What I look forward to seeing on the news clips of the march is, on both sides of the street, the pavements thronged with women struggling with piles of shopping bags, youngsters walking along listening to music oblivious to the marchers, lads roaring across the street to each other - "are you coming for a pint?", kids bawling at their mum's for ice cream, couples getting into some serious tonsil evacuations - y'know, all the little things that make up a busy street in any urban area.:D
The sheer contrast of that sight of these bowler hatted eejits marching along while all humanity all around them contunues along it's merry way TOTALLY ignoring them.:D
That would be a lovely sight.;)
If they're not going to be ignored then this is definitley the way to do it. I hereby call upon all our Gay, Lesbian, Bi and TV brethren and sisterhood to join the party. It'd be like (a very weird) Notting Hill or Mardi Gra.:D :cool: who else could we have?Quote:
Originally Posted by marksman
The salsa band that meets somewhere around Mountjoy Square - they're brilliant
Totally agree with you sirhamish but unfortunatley you are going to get every little scumbag for miles taking it as an opportunity to cause trouble under the pretext of defending the republican cause. There is no way it will pass off peacefully thus playing into the hands of the organisers. They will use it as an example of how everyone in the Republic hates protestants (not just the OO) and will never allow their culture to be recognised and celebrated. I couldn't care less whether they march. Sinn Fein were allowed organse their march there a few months back. I just know it will not pass off without incidentQuote:
Originally Posted by sirhamish
Not really, being a foreign organisation and all. They can't have it both ways. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
Yeah, Dotsy, I'm afraid you're dead right there. Actually, Marksman'spost just above is a great idea. Bring each and every lifestyle out to.........GREET THEM. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dotsy
I'd love, too, to see Mr. Pussy and Shirley Temple Barr rush up to the leaders of the march and plant great big lipsticky smacks on their ruddy jowls. That would be a mighty sight.:D
David Norris would be a great speaker to welcome them gay and Protestant:)Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhamish
LOL - and a politician too.:D Is he still in the Senate?? Think he is??Quote:
Originally Posted by REVIP
Getting a bit surreal - hows about Bertie Aherne welcoming them with a friendly speech - wearing a lovely evening gown.:eek: Wish I was able to use that technology you guys use to plant Bertie's head on a that type of garment.
You could throw in too Mary Harney as part of that greeting - wearing a black man's suit with a wispy moustache painted onto her face - kinda like those actors in Madonna's "Justify my love" video. LOL
I'd better stop now - I'm goin places I really shouldn't be going.:D
Don't let us stop you. Whatever floats your boat:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhamish
LOL:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dotsy
Funny though, notice how many of us are not taking the whole shebang seriously at all. Jesus, if this conversation was held back in the 70s or 80s, reactions wouldn't be like this.
We've really moved on down here.
A few miles up the road from here is the Aughrim Interpretative Centre - commemorating the Battle of Aughrim. One time, school kids could go there, dress up in Jackobite and Williamite uniforms and indulge in role playing, watch computerised versions of the battle and so on. I think it's half closed now through lack of interest TBH. It had a restaurant as well once and you could buy souvenirs too. Just shows the maturity here with regard to our total history but then we didn't have to deal with (or weren't in the middle of) the same situation as happened/happens up North so we can stand back at bit, so to speak.
LR - there's more than a gem of an idea in there. It is nigh-on impossible to cause public disorder whilst listening to Samba music - it's just far too uplifting and intoxicating ! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
On a more serious note - I've said on this site before that I'd like to see the 12th July celebrated formally in the Republic, including with a Bank Holiday. The Battle of the Boyne was a major event in Irish, European and world history. Think about it - this insignificant little spit of earth on the fringe of the fringe of Europe was the site for one of the major turning points in World History (I say 'world', because to all exdtents and purposes Europe was 'the world' in those days). It'd be like if the atom had first been split in Mohill in Leitrim ! If the 12th hadn't been hi-jacked for petty sectarianism, we'd be lauding it to the hill tops by now !
So I'd like to see it celebrated and commemorated properly and respectfully. That wouldn't mean leaving it to the run-of one-sided Rangers shirt-wearing, billy boys displaying naked sectarianism - but as an event of importance to and involvement of EVERYONE in the 'new' Ireland. And that would involve samba bands from Brazil, steel-bands from Trinidad, West African drum bands etc - ALL playing alongside the Lambeg, the flute, the Ulann pipes and the Bodhran.
It's time to reclaim the 12th of July for what it is - nothing more than an important historical event in the timeline of world history.