Fair Play trophy

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03/01/2006, 12:41 PM
pineapple stu

Fair Play trophy

Two months after the season and no word of a winner and the prize money to go with it. It was announced shortly before Christmas last year - anyone any idea about news? I'd imagine either Cork or UCD will end up winning - both have good records in the competition, and our first suspension of the season wasn't until late September (by far the latest of any club, from keeping a careful eye on the suspensions lists!). That'd mean UCD getting the chance of a UEFA Cup spot as Cork are in the CL, obviously.
06/01/2006, 12:34 PM
pineapple stu

Disregard - we win. Again. :) Dundalk win the First Division trophy. Derry and Cork share second place prize-money, while Limerick take second place in the First Division.

Now...when's the UEFA Cup draw on...? :D
06/01/2006, 1:34 PM
EnDai

Congrats :)
06/01/2006, 5:26 PM
Poor Student

Out of interest why is it Cork and UCD seem to have such a good disciplinary record. Particularly given UCD spent a fair bit of time defending they'd be more likely to give away fouls. I'm actually confused as to how this thing works. I'd have assumed it worked in minus points and it was like golf where the lowest points wins but it works in accumulated points? :confused:

If we get into the UEFA does that mean the gained national coefficient points will be divided by 4 instead of 3?
06/01/2006, 5:34 PM
EnDai

Yeah. Would be divided by 4.
06/01/2006, 5:48 PM
Passive

Roddy's Rovers - officially the dirtiest team in Ireland :rolleyes:
06/01/2006, 5:51 PM
A face

UCD didn't get a card until September ... for that alone they deserve it.
06/01/2006, 6:16 PM
coislaoi

Well done to UCD. In fairness they have never played dirty and play the game the right way (not always successfully:p ). 'Twould be good if ye could get another UEFA spot.
06/01/2006, 7:11 PM
Bald Student

The closest we ever came to getting the UEFA spot was the year we were in hte intertoto anyway.
06/01/2006, 11:11 PM
Roverstillidie

hold on here, it isnt just for on the pitch behaviour like we all assumed:

Ranking list
UEFA's fair play competitions are one means of rewarding those who want nothing to do with gamesmanship, cheating and violence. Each season, UEFA compiles an overall ranking list based on assessments carried out at matches in all UEFA competitions over a 12-month period. Marks are awarded to club and national teams for, among other things, positive play, conduct of players, team officials and spectators, red and yellow cards, and respect for the referee.

how exactly do you judge "positive play", "conduct of players, team officials and spectators" and "respect for the referee" in an objective manner? and if behaviour of fans is a factor, no-wonder UCD have an advantage.....
06/01/2006, 11:43 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

if behaviour of fans is a factor, no-wonder UCD have an advantage.....

(a) We're not scumbags, unlike fans of other clubs (not naming who!) I could mention. In fact, a poster here said UCD fans were the most good-natured in the league, which probably helps.
(b) There's actually a proviso that if there's a negligible support, that portion doesn't count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

UCD didn't get a card until September

Didn't get a suspension till September. Which was also our first red. In Cork...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoverstillIdie

how exactly do you judge "positive play", "conduct of players, team officials and spectators" and "respect for the referee" in an objective manner?

There's a UEFA observer at each game who rates each factor and sends their results in. I'm sure they do other stuff as well. (The UEFA observer is Irish incidentally, and usually does the same team for a season - I know Jack Kelly does Drogheda's home games and used to do UCD's home games).

You get marked between 1 and 10, so I suppose out 1072 is our total over the season. So you don't get docked marks as Poor Student suggested, but get more marks the better behaved you are.
07/01/2006, 1:58 PM
Red4Eva

i would give no credibility to the first division award although i have nothin against to dundalk&some other clubs like kilkenny who played the game with a good positive approach this award is decided depending on what referee you have to put up with. i doubt any1 would say we were a dirty side apart from maybe foley. the amount of non-sensical yellows paul duddy decided to give our players ruined our chances of gettin recognition for the positive mentality our side had
07/01/2006, 2:26 PM
HarpoJoyce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

Marks are awarded to club and national teams for, among other things, positive play, conduct of players, team officials and spectators, red and yellow cards, and respect for the referee.

how exactly do you judge "positive play", "conduct of players, team officials and spectators" and "respect for the referee" in an objective manner? and if behaviour of fans is a factor, no-wonder UCD have an advantage.....

If fans of a team are considered adding to the athmosphere and enjoyment of the Event Experience than their team may be awarded points.
"...Behaviour of the crowd (maximum five points)
- encouragement of teams by shouting, singing, etc., in accordance with the spirit of fair play
- respect of the opposing team, of the referee and of the opposing supporters..."
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/faq/index.html

Maybe improved cup runs, increased the number of games we played, helped UCD's average.
Credit needs to be given to Cork and Derry for succeeding in both the League and the Fair Play tables.

And the UEFA only matters if Rep. of Ireland (club and country teams) finish in the top three of the Fair Play League. As Ireland played a below average number of games I don't think the points are there to put us in the top three.
07/01/2006, 3:12 PM
De Town

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red4Eva

i would give no credibility to the first division award although i have nothin against to dundalk&some other clubs like kilkenny who played the game with a good positive approach this award is decided depending on what referee you have to put up with. i doubt any1 would say we were a dirty side apart from maybe foley. the amount of non-sensical yellows paul duddy decided to give our players ruined our chances of gettin recognition for the positive mentality our side had

I hope you don't expect a better standard of reffing in the Premier because you'll only be left disappointed.
07/01/2006, 3:14 PM
ThatGuy

In my opinion it is a bit ridiculous that the winners of a fair play award have the chance of playing in the UEFA Cup.

If Ireland wins the draw, the UEFA spot should go to Shels and Longford should get the Intertoto.

You get punished for a lack of "fair play" by conceding free-kicks, penalties, having players booked, sent off and/or suspended.

It is all part of the game and teams that finish in low positions shouldn't be rewarded with European spots. It is all well and good commending them on their "fair play" etc, a token gesture cash-prize (which has been funded by the main offenders like Bohs and Rovers I suppose!) is relatively acceptable I suppose, but the chance of having a spot in a Cup that you have to finish second or win the Cup to qualify? Not fair.
07/01/2006, 3:43 PM
HarpoJoyce

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

In my opinion it is a bit ridiculous that the winners of a fair play award have the chance of playing in the UEFA Cup.

If Ireland wins the draw, the UEFA spot should go to Shels and Longford should get the Intertoto.

You get punished for a lack of "fair play" by conceding free-kicks, penalties, having players booked, sent off and/or suspended.

It is all part of the game and teams that finish in low positions shouldn't be rewarded with European spots. It is all well and good commending them on their "fair play" etc, a token gesture cash-prize (which has been funded by the main offenders like Bohs and Rovers I suppose!) is relatively acceptable I suppose, but the chance of having a spot in a Cup that you have to finish second or win the Cup to qualify? Not fair.

It's a separate form of measurement, there is the league table with points awarded and deducted ( that upsets some people so it must work as a punishment)

There is also a Fair Play table with its own set of rules and measurements.
UEFA wish to make the Fair Play idea relevant to football competitions so they reward three clubs every year by promoting them into the UEFA Cup.

Otherwise FAIR PLAY could just be talked about with no changes being implemented in the way clubs think.

After Edit:
Bundesliga via Wikipedia.
"....Teams that enter via the Intertoto Cup or UEFA's Fair Play mechanism do not count against the national quota. The DFB's current UEFA coefficients ranking allows as many as three First Bundesliga sides to enter the Intertoto Cup, with as many as three UEFA Cup berths available. For the 2005/06 season, the DFB earned an extra UEFA Cup place via the Fair Play draw; this place went to Mainz 05 as the highest-ranked club in the Fair Play table of the First Bundesliga not already qualified for Europe....."
http://www.answers.com/topic/bundesliga-football

It suggests that the Fair Play reps. in UEFA Cup don't contribute to the overall co-efficient total. Which I'm suprised with as each club should take part in the competition fully. But it re-enforces the separation of League points table and Fair Play League table.
07/01/2006, 7:23 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpoJoyce

And the UEFA only matters if Rep. of Ireland (club and country teams) finish in the top three of the Fair Play League. As Ireland played a below average number of games I don't think the points are there to put us in the top three.

Nope - if Ireland get over an 8.000 average in the Fair Play, we're in the draw. Last year, 18 countries managed that, so 17 teams went in for the draw for two places (the winners get a place automatically). Ireland make the draw roughly every other year on average. The number of games Ireland play - at all levels - is irrelevant as it's the average score which matters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

You get punished for a lack of "fair play" by conceding free-kicks, penalties, having players booked, sent off and/or suspended.

You seem to be slightly confusing the common notion of Fair Play with the UEFA version. The UEFA version doesn't just concern itself with bookings and fouls - it gives points for every aspect of behaviour which it would like to encourage in its members. This includes attacking play, behaviour of the crowd, behaviour of the officials, etc. So items like club officials punching photographers, fans throwing items on to the pitch, fans fighting or abusing opposition fans, diving, hounding the referee, etc. would be punished more so than free kicks and bookings. But it's reasonable - for the sake of this competition - that the dirtier teams get punished as well. And in fact, it's common for the top teams in the league to do best in the competition - look at Cork winning last year and Cork and Derry tying for second this year. It's maybe not the most satisfactory way of getting in to Europe, but that's not our fault and if we get in that way, I'll be happy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarpoJoyce

It suggests that the Fair Play reps. in UEFA Cup don't contribute to the overall co-efficient total.

The article seems to suggest that alright, but Bert Kassies' site suggests otherwise - Germany (Mainz), Denmark (Esbjerg) and Norway (Stavenger) won this year and all are included in the points calculation.
09/01/2006, 6:12 PM
pineapple stu

Probably don't need to add that there's no word of this on the FAI's alleged website yet...
09/01/2006, 11:41 PM
Roverstillidie

ever get the feeling the UCD boys are only defending this system because they won?!? :p

am i alone in having thought this was simply a prize for player discipline, ie the team with the least yellow and red cards?

what worries me here is that UEFA have a vision about 'positive play' and 'repsect' that isnt 100% clear. you are encouraged to sing and shout, but what? is scoring 9 goals by plying dire route 1 ball less positive than sexy samba style play that gets 1?

typical UEFA, the more you dig the more confusing the ****ers are.
10/01/2006, 12:24 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

ever get the feeling the UCD boys are only defending this system because they won?!? :p

Or that you're only knocking it because you came last? :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

am I alone in having thought this was simply a prize for player discipline, ie the team with the least yellow and red cards?

Yep. It's very well explained in UEFA's (very hard to find!) FAQ section.
10/01/2006, 3:28 PM
superfrank

Fair play UCD.