Paul Lennon in the Star

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22/12/2005, 12:50 PM
sullanefc

Paul Lennon in the Star

Reading his column today in the Star and I have to say, what a pleb.

Whatever your opinion on Brian Kerr and how abysmally he performed as the Irish boss, this guy Paul Lennon rips into Kerr today, mostly, because of how he treated the media in his time as boss.

What the hell has media relations got to do with qualifying for a World Cup. Brian Kerr failed and you can criticise his tactics/motivation in the dressing room etc, but the way Paul Lennon comes across is that he has an agenda against Kerr (probably cos Kerr put his nose out of joint at some press conference).

Personally, I think if Kerr had been better with the media, he might have lasted longer in the job. It's a sad day in this country when the media can hold agendas like this and help to get you sacked.

What do other people think? Is it vital that the next manager be more media friendly or get results?
22/12/2005, 12:56 PM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

What do other people think? Is it vital that the next manager be more media friendly or get results?

More vital that elements in the media stick to reporting rather than personal vendetta's. Most of them are too fookin thick to realise that they're being played though, so wouldn't hold my breath.
22/12/2005, 1:07 PM
hamish

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

Reading his column today in the Star and I have to say, what a pleb.

Whatever your opinion on Brian Kerr and how abysmally he performed as the Irish boss, this guy Paul Lennon rips into Kerr today, mostly, because of how he treated the media in his time as boss.

What the hell has media relations got to do with qualifying for a World Cup. Brian Kerr failed and you can criticise his tactics/motivation in the dressing room etc, but the way Paul Lennon comes across is that he has an agenda against Kerr (probably cos Kerr put his nose out of joint at some press conference).

Personally, I think if Kerr had been better with the media, he might have lasted longer in the job. It's a sad day in this country when the media can hold agendas like this and help to get you sacked.

What do other people think? Is it vital that the next manager be more media friendly or get results?

Saddened to hear that, sullanefc, 'cos Paul Lennon TBF is a true blue football fan as well as a reporter. He'd have known Brian well over the years too in League of Ireland. Something must have happened between them 'cos I always found Paul Lennon a decent bloke TBH.
However, if they fell out, it shouldn't be a factor in any reporter's.........er........reports. Must get that Star.

Yeah, like it or not, the media seems to call the shots/set agendas in every walk of life, doesn't it??

Good discussion on Setanta's The Hub last night involving Cathal Dervan (space cadet) and another bloke who's name escapes me - I think he writes for one of the Indo papers or Mirror or something and was at the star........Roy Curtis I think. The Hub presenter - Daire O'Briain? - called the RTE programme on Kerr a "whinge-fest":eek:

They made the point that nowadays, with the many Oirish papers in the market, journos are always looking for a "story" and in the old days of players having a few pints before the match was not for public consumption. Nowadays anything goes. Curtis (?) mentioned getting a phone call a few years ago from two blokes, members of an All Ireland finalist team, the night before the game, and sneaking them off to a pub for a few jars as they were going mental with boredom in the team hotel. He added that their side lost too. LOL
22/12/2005, 1:14 PM
Macy

What did Dervan have to say about personal attacks? Was he a hypocrite or did he admit that he's carried on in as bad away himself?
22/12/2005, 1:28 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhamish

Good discussion on Setanta's The Hub last night involving Cathal Dervan (space cadet) and another bloke who's name escapes me - I think he writes for one of the Indo papers or Mirror or something and was at the star........Roy Curtis I think. The Hub presenter - Daire O'Briain? - called the RTE programme on Kerr a "whinge-fest":eek:

It seems that certain sections of the media are calling at an unbalanced pro Brian Kerr whinge-fest. That is the general line that Paul Lennon is taking in his column as well, which I don't understand. Eamonn Dunphy was on the show giving his opinion and he wouldn't be a Brian Kerr fan. Dunphy actually said that Delaney was good for the FAI and he was right to sack Kerr. If that's unbalanced then "I'm a china man".

Paul Lennon whinges in his column today that the show was unbalanced because and I quote

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Lennon today in the Star

Why did the programme not interview a journalist who was consistently critical of Kerr's tactics throughout his time in charge?

eh Dunphy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Lennon today in the Star

The Irish Daily Star was never shy about questioning the performances under Kerr - a practice that kicked in after three Euro 2004 qualifying points were secured against Albania at Lansdowne Road with an injury time own goal.

Seems like Lennon was disappointed he didn't get an invite to the programme. Sad man! Grow up!

And I wouldn't take a tack of notic of the Hub criticising an RTE programme. Sure aren't RTE and Setanta rivals and wouldn't they want to put them down at every oppurtunity? MORE AGENDAS!!!!
22/12/2005, 1:38 PM
Dotsy

I thought it was quite well balanced. Dunphy, Malone and Mackey all pointed out areas where they thought Kerr had made mistakes. On the issue of the media I do think that the next manager should try to establish a better relationship with them. They are not all tossers and it will make the job easier. The journos have papers to fill and will write about the team anyway. The less professional will make up stories if they don't get access to the manager and team especially around big games.
22/12/2005, 1:47 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dotsy

I thought it was quite well balanced. Dunphy, Malone and Mackey all pointed out areas where they thought Kerr had made mistakes. On the issue of the media I do think that the next manager should try to establish a better relationship with them. They are not all tossers and it will make the job easier. The journos have papers to fill and will write about the team anyway. The less professional will make up stories if they don't get access to the manager and team especially around big games.

I'd agree with you to a point. A manager obviousley has to deal with the media and it probably helps to be good at it. But I would never criticise a manager if he does not get on with the media. No Irish soccer fan would. The only thing Irish soccer fans want are results and qualification, nothing else. And if the manager does not achieve them, THEN criticise.

The only people who care about the manager's relationship with the media are the media themselves. And that is my problem with Paul Lennon having a go at Brian Kerr today just because of his relationship with the media. What Paul Lennon fails to see is that NO ONE CARES about this falling out with the media. Lennon's nose is out of joint and he has had a go at Kerr over it. Grow up FFS.
22/12/2005, 1:47 PM
hamish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

What did Dervan have to say about personal attacks? Was he a hypocrite or did he admit that he's carried on in as bad away himself?

I didn't get all the Hub, Macy, but Dervan said that not so long ago there were about four papers covering the league. Then he mentioned all the new "Oirish" ones and the change to looking for a story - any story - that will sell papers.

Kind of admission of guilt on his part, don't you think.:) Certain strain of irony in his comment anyway since he was one of the first to start that kind of stuff.

A lot of what they said was that Kerr blamed everyone but himself and O'Briain asked was the media taking a look at itself regarding disclosing players pinting etc. Had the media now new ground rules, so to speak, regarding what were once private concerns as regards sports people. The fact that some TDs have mistresses was also mentioned.......that was a private matter as regards the media but maybe not now.

That's the general gist of what I saw.
22/12/2005, 1:51 PM
hamish

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

And I wouldn't take a tack of notic of the Hub criticising an RTE programme. Sure aren't RTE and Setanta rivals and wouldn't they want to put them down at every oppurtunity? MORE AGENDAS!!!!

Too true! Too true! I love to see it when the media indulge in a "bitch fest". Great entertainment, if, basically, irrelevant.

Still disappointed with Paul Lennon TBH. Thought he had more cop-on than that.

Just remembered, you're answer to Dotsy, about people not caring about whether the media and Kerr's relationship is good, bad or indifferent was also metioned on The Huib. The three of them agreed that the botom line was results, qualifiication. Dervan added that the media would also be keen to see Ireland qualify 'cos it would be great for the media in advertising, sales etc.

Cheers for all that information BTW sullanefc
22/12/2005, 1:55 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhamish

Too true! Too true! I love to see it when the media indulge in a "bitch fest". Great entertainment, if, basically, irrelevant.

Still disappointed with Paul Lennon TBH. Thought he had more cop-on than that.

Cheers for all that information BTW sullanefc

No prob. BTW I'm not a Kerr fan. Just don't like to see the guy criticised for the wrong reasons.
22/12/2005, 2:05 PM
pete

Kerr should just let it go at this stage as he appears petty now.

Vast majority of the irish football reporter hacks are muppets. Dervan & some guy on the Hub on Setanta last night were prime examples. FFS they still think people concerned about the Robbie Keane story when it was a non-issue. Of course was no mentioned of lies (i.e. no basis in truth) the Herald printed about Kerr v Roy Keane bust up.

Its lazy journalism to continue to get column inches talking about themselves.

:rolleyes:
22/12/2005, 2:08 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Its lazy journalism to continue to get column inches talking about themselves.

:rolleyes:

Too true. And nobody cares. So why do they write it? :confused:
22/12/2005, 2:09 PM
hamish

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

No prob. BTW I'm not a Kerr fan. Just don't like to see the guy criticised for the wrong reasons.

I agree with that totally. I rarely buy Irish papers because, when I was involved in the game, I noticed (especially towards the end of the 90s) this change of attitude in the media - especially the Indo papers. I got so disgusted at the lies, weasel words from some prize kunts in Irish sports writing that I was glad to be out of it TBH.
I could tell you stories where the footie organisations/clubs I was involved with which sometimes had to threaten legal action when stone cold lies were about to be printed. Obviously, for legal reasons, I can't say them here - but I'd love to. A pox on most of them. If Irish hacks had said Mother Theresa was a virgin I'd have sh@gged her just to make sure they were telling the truth. I swear to God, I find it hard to believe anything they print or speak. I'll stop now - feel a rant coming on. LOL

While I was disappointed for and with Kerr, I felt it was pointless replacing him at that stage as there was no one good enough on the horizon. Look at the sh!t the FAI is in now. Venables, Bria Robson, Megson???:eek: FFS.
If the FAI really wanted to be amoral and ruthless, they should have had a replacement primed and ready. That's obviously a rather cynical view on the whole shebang on my part.
22/12/2005, 2:24 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhamish

If the FAI really wanted to be amoral and ruthless, they should have had a replacement primed and ready. That's obviously a rather cynical view on the whole shebang on my part.

Probably should have, but they are saving money this way. Plus they are probably waiting for someone decent to get sacked from their current job.

It's interesting you speak about the lies that the papers print as this column appears in todays star also

Quote:

Originally Posted by Today's Star

O'Flynn set to move on

Swansea city won't make any decision on a move for John O'Flynn until next month.
Djurgardens are favourites to land the Cork City star who has informed Leesiders' boss Damien Richardson that he won't be staying at Turner's Cross now that his contract has expired.
Swansea - currently leading the League One table - took a close look at O'Flynn on a recent week long trial.

Somone over on the CCFC official site claims that this story about Djurgardens was more than likely put in the paper by representatives of the player himself to put pressure on Swansea to sign him. No mention of Djurgardens interest anywhere else. What is also suspicious is that a close friend of O'Flynn who has been known to act as an "agent", also writes a column in the Star.

I'd be inclinded to agree with that take. Just goes to show the amount of BS in the papers.
22/12/2005, 2:28 PM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

No Irish soccer fan would. The only thing Irish soccer fans want are results and qualification, nothing else. And if the manager does not achieve them, THEN criticise.

I don't know, I think you credit the Irish sporting public with too much cop on. A hell of a lot of them are led by the media and don't make up their own minds.
22/12/2005, 2:29 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

I don't know, I think you credit the Irish sporting public with too much cop on. A hell of a lot of them are led by the media and don't make up their own minds.

You know what, that's a fair point.
22/12/2005, 2:32 PM
Dotsy

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

I'd agree with you to a point. A manager obviousley has to deal with the media and it probably helps to be good at it. But I would never criticise a manager if he does not get on with the media. No Irish soccer fan would. The only thing Irish soccer fans want are results and qualification, nothing else. And if the manager does not achieve them, THEN criticise.

The only people who care about the manager's relationship with the media are the media themselves. And that is my problem with Paul Lennon having a go at Brian Kerr today just because of his relationship with the media. What Paul Lennon fails to see is that NO ONE CARES about this falling out with the media. Lennon's nose is out of joint and he has had a go at Kerr over it. Grow up FFS.

I agree with you about the fans. But I do think that some players and managers pay attention to what is written about them in the media. From that point of view it is better for the team in general that the players and manager at least have a cordial relationship with the media. The made up stories about Robbie and Roy Keane before the France match did distract Kerr as he felt he had to address them in his press conferences.
22/12/2005, 3:39 PM
dfx-

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

Too true. And nobody cares. So why do they write it? :confused:

It seems like fans do care reading this thread. I really don't get the criticism of the papers and the media. They went after Kerr and so they should have. When you have Kerr getting an apology of a television programme in which he blames them along with everything else under the sun except the real reason (himself), they have every right and come out on the attack against Kerr. If he admitted it was his own fault he got sacked then there would be less 'tirades' in the papers. They are perfectly allowed attack him if Kerr continues with this delusional theory of everyone against him. He was sacked because he was useless, end of story. He was not sacked because of "idiots in the media" like this thread would have you think.:mad:

Quote:

What the hell has media relations got to do with qualifying for a World Cup. Brian Kerr failed and you can criticise his tactics/motivation in the dressing room etc, but the way Paul Lennon comes across is that he has an agenda against Kerr (probably cos Kerr put his nose out of joint at some press conference).

The media is a way of getting your point to the masses. If that point is being drowned out by shambolic performances and refusal to give - or diffuculty in giving press meetings, then guess what gets to the masses? Not that was hard - all you had to do was watch the matches. Did none of you hear Giles and Dunphy and Brady after the Israel match? That was no conspiracy - that was a perfectly fair judgement of the match - they weren't out to get him and influence the nation any more than usual - they didn't have any agenda against Kerr. It was not about their noses out of joint, it was because of a shambolic performance. If you get another 5-6 of them, then you will get sacked. It is very easy to get sacked with such results. Even the FAI could see it. There need not be an agenda against Kerr. He had plenty of chances to recoup this and he failed on the pitch. The media no matter how vociferous when reporting shambolic performances have little effect on whether you'll get sacked if you feed the public with the tripe Kerr has.

Quote:

Personally, I think if Kerr had been better with the media, he might have lasted longer in the job. It's a sad day in this country when the media can hold agendas like this and help to get you sacked.

No he wouldn't have lasted. The media did not bring around the bad results. The media did not leave six defenders on the pitch on a game we have to win. The media did not oversee a shambles away to Israel and Cyprus. The media did not change after Keane's injury to 4-5-1. The media forced none of this. These are the decisions that got Kerr sacked. NOTHING ELSE. When you get into the territory of banning press conferences or the such like as before Cyprus, the media are going to get their story from somewhere else and they will get it. If he cannot cope with that, then I'm sorry he's not good enough.

Giving out about the media has got nothing to do with the situation and smacks of desperate people looking for anything to complain about to hide their dissatisfaction, as is typical in Ireland. If the Star did start complaining about Kerr against Albania then he has every right to say he was correct - what is there to complain? Was he not right....?! What is wrong with being right?

The media can only cover the story given and if Kerr is losing his job, then that is the story and when you are as bad as Kerr, the story will snowball.

Kerr wasn't good enough. Sin �. Nothing else matters, not the FAI and certainly not the media in this respect.
22/12/2005, 4:05 PM
soccerc

Quote:

Originally Posted by sullanefc

Somone over on the CCFC official site claims that this story about Djurgardens was more than likely put in the paper by representatives of the player himself to put pressure on Swansea to sign him. No mention of Djurgardens interest anywhere else. What is also suspicious is that a close friend of O'Flynn who has been known to act as an "agent", also writes a column in the Star.

I'd be inclinded to agree with that take. Just goes to show the amount of BS in the papers.

Djurgardens have no interest in O'Flynn whatsoever. you'd be surprised at who they have had watched but he is ln longer on CCFC's books!
22/12/2005, 6:20 PM
Donal81

Paul Lennon usually writes sense but as a general rule I wouldn't exactly go looking for decent, balanced and informed reporting from a tabloid newspaper more interested in the big splash than anything else.

It always amazes me how so many football fans lay into the media, while reading the Evening Herald, the Star, the Sun (or, at times, the Irish Independent). These are poor papers, they really are. There is decent reporting out there but the above papers will only stop printing complete sh!te when people stop buying them.

So stop buying them!
22/12/2005, 7:00 PM
hamish

Maybe a thread about football and sports agents might also be appropriate. I'm sure there are good ones but there are many many cowboys in that area. I hate it when an agent "slips" a story in the press about interest from other clubs - prior to a player about to negotiate a new contract. Managers, having to handle a board who might not budge on better terms are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm desperately sorry for Rico. He wins the League with a side playing really lovely, enjoyable, passionate football and sees it savaged within weeks of landing the title.

I do have some sympathy for Kerr and I have no problem with press criticising his tactics - as well as factual reportage, that's what they're there for - BUT dfx is right when he states that the performances and results are the important aspect. However, I cannot accept but that some members of our sports media have adopted the malignant virus which permeates the UK press. Some of the sniping at Kerr was infantile, immature and totally irelevant to the performances and tactics.
Micky O'Connor is back with Athlone and during his first spell there his attitude was he'd gladly talk with them, argue with them, joke with them BUT, when push came to shove, his priorities were the players, performances and results. The media were grand but had no influence on anything he did club-wise and if they got on his case, that's their business but he wasn't going to lose any sleep over it.
22/12/2005, 7:43 PM
dfx-

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhamish

However, I cannot accept but that some members of our sports media have adopted the malignant virus which permeates the UK press. Some of the sniping at Kerr was infantile, immature and totally irelevant to the performances and tactics.

I am not for one moment saying that the Irish media are angels, but in reference to the articles about Kerr, he brought it on himself. He was incapable. Was there such a witchhunt when we were doing well? There may have been people with disquiet, but was there a witchhunt? When it becomes blatently to a blind mouse that Kerr is not up to it and the overwhelming public opinion is for his removal, the press are going to run that ahead of a 'good' story. If it forces him out when he is incapable then that is for good. However Kerr was not capable and that was why he lost his job. Now that he seems to be still blaming the media is going to get a reaction from the same media - what do you expect them to do?? I believe he questioned in his programme whether many in the media know about football.

*shakes his head in disbelief* That is a sign of a madman. It is a sign of a bitter, bitter man and therefore he deserves the harsh criticism thast he will get until he realises who was really at fault. Eventually if he doesn't people will be sick of telling him and there won't be threads about Kerr's demise because it is re-run territory and there can be no logical argument to his dismissal and there won't be 'lazy' journalism. The difference between English tabloids and us is that they jump up at one defeat to Northern Ireland whilst still easily qualifying...that is no reason to jump on the coach or his private life.

The Irish media had only got disgraceful performances to report on, it's not going to show Kerr in any better light than he deserves.
22/12/2005, 9:17 PM
hamish

Quote:

Originally Posted by d f x-

I am not for one moment saying that the Irish media are angels, but in reference to the articles about Kerr, he brought it on himself. He was incapable. Was there such a witchhunt when we were doing well? There may have been people with disquiet, but was there a witchhunt? When it becomes blatently to a blind mouse that Kerr is not up to it and the overwhelming public opinion is for his removal, the press are going to run that ahead of a 'good' story. If it forces him out when he is incapable then that is for good. However Kerr was not capable and that was why he lost his job. Now that he seems to be still blaming the media is going to get a reaction from the same media - what do you expect them to do?? I believe he questioned in his programme whether many in the media know about football.

*shakes his head in disbelief* That is a sign of a madman. It is a sign of a bitter, bitter man and therefore he deserves the harsh criticism thast he will get until he realises who was really at fault. Eventually if he doesn't people will be sick of telling him and there won't be threads about Kerr's demise because it is re-run territory and there can be no logical argument to his dismissal and there won't be 'lazy' journalism. The difference between English tabloids and us is that they jump up at one defeat to Northern Ireland whilst still easily qualifying...that is no reason to jump on the coach or his private life.

The Irish media had only got disgraceful performances to report on, it's not going to show Kerr in any better light than he deserves.

No arguments with you there dfx. Perhaps I got into a cul de sac about press standards given my experiences. That suspicion tends to colour my judgements sometimes about where the media is coming from.
I just want to be certain that the press observes standards of truth and honest reporting when dealing with any subject. I still think that far too many in the media here are, basically, full of it.
True. There was little that could be said in a positive fashion about the set backs in those two games against Israel.
I thought the press bickering about Kerr's attitude towards them was a side show and irrelevant.
Those who inspired debate regarding the performances, tactics etc were doing their jobs.
True. You live and die by results. That's the sad fact regarding Brian Kerr.
22/12/2005, 9:24 PM
sullanefc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donal81

It always amazes me how so many football fans lay into the media, while reading the Evening Herald, the Star, the Sun (or, at times, the Irish Independent). These are poor papers, they really are. There is decent reporting out there but the above papers will only stop printing complete sh!te when people stop buying them.

So stop buying them!

I think I will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d f x -

The difference between English tabloids and us

So what publication do you write for??

Quote:

Originally Posted by d f x -

all you had to do was watch the matches. Did none of you hear Giles and Dunphy and Brady after the Israel match? That was no conspiracy - that was a perfectly fair judgement of the match - they weren't out to get him and influence the nation any more than usual - they didn't have any agenda against Kerr.

I have no problem with the criticism Giles, Dunphy & Brady dished out as it was fair and it had to do with tactics.

It's the written media throwing there toys out of their prams that I have a problem. "He won't talk to us, so lets slag him off over it" :rolleyes: Thats childish
22/12/2005, 10:21 PM
Noelys Guitar

Kerr got a huge ovation from the hacks when he was appointed. With the "Greener" in charge we were going to be winning tourneys. All this qualifying nonsense was for others. Go back into the archives of ANY Irish newspaper to see the type of crap that was been written (and swallowed) when Kerr was appointed. It was moving statue time again. He got the easiest ride of any recent manager by the hacks. I stated at the time that he should never have been appointed and would never win the respect ot the squad. Kevin Moran/Brian Kidd, John Aldridge/Kevin Sheedy or Frank Stapleton would have been better choices at the time.
23/12/2005, 8:13 AM
klein4

what about the reporting on robbie keane on a so called bender before the french game and roy keane "apparently" going mad about it?
nobody really wants cheerleaders with typewriters but I dont think it is too much to ask that they dont try and undermine the team before such a big game. nobody has a problem with them criticising a manager if he isnt doing his stuff but some stories they put out are just sensationalist for the sake of it.
23/12/2005, 8:29 AM
gufct

My biggest problem with the

piece in the star that nobody has mentioned is how well informed Paul was on the FAI's side of the story and this obviously had been leaked to try and blacken Kerr's reputation.Attacking him over sending scouts to see potential play off opponents was very petty and stank of "the man from del monte's hand". Until Irish reporters distance themselves from JD and his henchmen and start writing the stories they all know about the mafia within the FAI I for one will find it very hard to have any belief in them.
23/12/2005, 9:13 AM
gspain

Kerr has only himself to blame re the media. He brought up the contract issue to put pressure on the F.A.I. and tried to use the media but it backfired.

Ultimately he lost his job because we finished 4th in a qualifying group behind the likes of Switzerland and Israel who didn't have players of the cailbre of Duff, Given and the Keanes yet had better teams than us.
23/12/2005, 9:36 AM
klein4

fair enough. but if we got a good manager in and he didnt get on with the press and didnt bother giving press conferances and they decided to attack and go after him would you agree with that?
do you think we would have had the success of the charlton years in the current media climate?
23/12/2005, 10:27 AM
Dotsy

Quote:

Originally Posted by klein4

fair enough. but if we got a good manager in and he didnt get on with the press and didnt bother giving press conferances and they decided to attack and go after him would you agree with that?
do you think we would have had the success of the charlton years in the current media climate?

I don't think many people are defending some of the trash that was written in the papers about Kerr at the end. The point is some of these tossers will write this nonsence and undermine the team if they can't get access to the team and manager before big games. These days a manager has to be good at the PR side of things or else this can happen. It's not a question of supporting it one way or the other it's just a fact of life in football these days.
23/12/2005, 12:47 PM
Karlos

Quote:

Originally Posted by klein4

do you think we would have had the success of the charlton years in the current media climate?

Just my own thoughts on this but I never thought Jack was that media friendly anyway. Sure he was probably good for the odd quote but he ruffled more than a few feathers both at the time of his appointment and during his reign and walked out or ended abruptly more press conferences than I care to remember. I'm sure we would have seen the same personal attacks had Jack been a failure and due to the fact he's English, I imagine it would have been even worse than what Kerr was dished out. Jack's ultimate saving grace was that he was the first manager to lead us to major tournaments - otherwise I feel he would have been hung out to dry like anyone else who fails.

Ultimately it's the results that determine the extent as to which the media will go after you. No matter how good or successful you are, somebody out there will be willing to have a pop - start losing or underperformaning (or indeed become unapproachable) then that number grows and grows and grows.

I honestly believe Kerr didn't have it any harder with the media than anyone who went before him and what he did have to a large extent was caused by himself at times. I'm not saying the treatment he received was right or even worth reading but I just don't necessarily agree that the media singled Kerr out and thought let's give him a harder time than everyone else who has gone before. As others have said, I thought he was well receieved when appointed and had a long honeymoon period until this summer but ultimately the results and our failure to qualify where his downfall.

So in short to answer the initial question - 'Yes, I don't see a whole lot of difference in the media climate surrounding the team - the one variable I see has been the success. All we are seeing is the other side of the coin that I believe we would have seen with failure under Jack'
23/12/2005, 12:54 PM
klein4

I agree with you on most of it(it is christmas after all).....but I was talking more in terms of "irish team in drinking before game shocker" headlines which werent the norm back then but I think they are now.
23/12/2005, 1:04 PM
Karlos

Quote:

Originally Posted by klein4

I agree with you on most of it(it is christmas after all).....but I was talking more in terms of "irish team in drinking before game shocker" headlines which werent the norm back then but I think they are now.

Fair enough, in that sence proabably not. But then I also don't think that most players go out on the lash as much these days. In the 80's the players were out every night in their local - stories were a dime a dozen and not worth reporting.

So had the Charlton Years took place now with all the aspects of nutrition and performance in the game etc then I don't think they would have been doing all that anyway or at least not like they were back then. It was a player culture that has almost disappeared from the game hence the big news stories when West Ham have a Christmas Party or Ireland go on the lash - it just doesn't happen that often anymore.

Still doesn't make it an interesting or relevant story for me but I know why they run with it!

On that note I'll wish you happy Christmas Klein4 as i don't think we'll have these moments of argeement too often!!!! :)
23/12/2005, 1:08 PM
klein4

:eek:
same to yourself karlos! have a good one...
24/12/2005, 8:16 AM
pete

Journalists know no more (probably a lot less) than people on hear so they should be reporting on matches & interviewing players.

Journalists should not be writting opinion pieces on football as they haven't got opinions worthwhile. Leave that job to ex-pros.